89 ram with issues

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robsnyder225

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Hello all. New guy here. Just picked up an 89 d150 4x4 last night to use as a farm beater. Truck started out running rough but was drivable then it just completely quit. Thought it was spark issues and its a lot more than that. I have power to the coil and fuel pump with the key shut off. As soon as I flip the key over to start it all power is gone. I know I can put the pump on a toggle switch but can I put the coil on one also. If I'm having these issues is there possibly something else wrong causing all this nonsense? Im in the doghouse big time with the wifey over this because of a $91 tow bill to get it the rest of the way home. I've always had carbed engines without all this electrical stuff on it so I'm not sure where to start. Any help is greatly appreciated.
 

crazzywolfie

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welcome. not seeing power at the coil or fuel pump is normal. you will only see power there for a few seconds after you turn the key on or while cranking. otherwise the computer shuts the asd relay off. can you hear the fuel pump turn on when you first turn the key on? also do you still hear noise under the hood when you turn the key on?
 
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robsnyder225

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Fuel pump doesn't kick on at all with the key. But hums with the key off. Not getting any spark from the coil at all. Can I put a toggle to it and give it power. Not sure if I've got a bad coil or not at this point. I know the pump is supposed to run until it builds pressure and then shut off. The wiring is pretty messy and I'm wondering if the box on the fender isn't screwed up too.
 
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robsnyder225

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It was making a funny noise when you turned off the key but we drained the battery trying to get it started. The noise only lasted a couple seconds. Just really lost as to why its doing this. I'd like to override the box and see if it will start. What all does that box on the fender control? If I can get it to run without it then that's what I'll do. Just trying to get a handle on it to figure out were to start trouble shooting it. It didn't make any noises under the hood with the key on. I'm hoping its just a dead coil and nothing more but I have a bad feeling about it. And to add to it. I hate wiring!
 
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crazzywolfie

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are you sure the fuel pump hums with the key off and it is not something under the hood? normally the throttle kicker under the hood makes noise when you first turn the key on and a couple seconds after you turn the key off which is what i think you might possibly be hearing.

the box on the fender controls everything
 
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robsnyder225

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Oh its the fuel pump. You dont hear noise under the hood. Its back at the tank. Something is really messed up with for sure.
 

crazzywolfie

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the fuel pump should only run when the key is on. if it runs after you turn the key off then there is something wrong. you can test the asd relay connector to see if it is getting power to terminal 86 with the key in the run position. this is your ignition power wire. you also want to check to see if there is power at terminal 30 which is a constant power wire
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robsnyder225

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Where is that relay located? This is the first one of these I've had. I'm just at a loss as to why it did it.
 

crazzywolfie

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it is the only normal sized relay on the drivers side fender. i have had my share of experience playing with these things.
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robsnyder225

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I'll have to look again when I get back home. But I dont think there's even one on the fender that looks like that. The wiring is all messed up and if that's missing it could explain a lot of the problems.
 
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robsnyder225

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That's what I was thinking too. I was told that the pickup coil could cause this issue too. Guess its time to just tear into the wiring and chase
 

crazzywolfie

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i wouldn't tear into the wiring just yet. does it have that relay on the drivers side fender? if so i would be testing the wires to it for power. you could also pull codes to see if there is anything that the computer is complaining about.

1. Cycle the ignition key ON-OFF-ON-OFF-ON within 5 seconds. To cycle the ignition key ON means to turn it only as far as it takes to get the radio to come on. It does not mean to turn the engine on.

2. Count the number of times the "check engine" lamp on the instrument panel flashes on and off. The number of flashes represents the code. There is a slight pause between the flashes representing the first and second digits of the code. Longer pauses separate individual codes. For example, flash-flash-flash [pause] flash-flash represents the code 32.

A code of "55" represents end of error codes. If this is all you get then no error codes are stored in the computer. This is the normal condition

CODE Description of Trouble Code
11 Timing belt skipped 1 tooth or more from initial learned value, Intermittent loss of either camshaft or crankshaft position sensor, No crank reference signal detected during engine cranking
12 Direct battery input to PCM was disconnected within the last 50 key-on cycles (normal)
13 No change in MAP from start to run
14 MAP sensor voltage too low
15 No vehicle speed sensor signal
17 Closed loop temp not reached or engine cold too long
21 02s sensor problem (oxygen sensor), upstream or down stream
22 Engine coolant temp sensor out of range
23 Intake air temp sensor out of range
24 Throttle Position sensor out of range
25 Idle air control motor circuits, target idle not reached (+/- 200),vacuum leak found
27 Injector control circuit
31 Evap purge flow monitor failure or evap solenoid circuit
32 EGR system failure
33 A/C clutch relay circuit
34 Speed control Solenoid circuits
35 Rad Fan control relay circuit
37 Torque converter clutch solenoid CKT or park/neutral switch failure
41 Generator field not switching properly
42 Fuel pump relay control ckt, Auto shutdown relay control ckt, No ASD relay output voltage at PCM, Fuel level sending unit volts out of range, Fuel level unit No change over miles
43 Multiple/ single cylinder misfire
44 Battery temp sensor volts out of range
45 Overdrive solenoid shorted or open (automatic transmission only)
46 Charging system voltage too high
47 Charging system voltage too low
51 Fuel system lean
52 Fuel system rich
53 Internal control failure
54 No Cam signal at PCM
55 End of error messages (If you get this only, no errors were found)
62 PCM failure SRI mile not stored
63 PCM Failure EEPROM write denied
64 Catalytic Converter Efficiency Failure
65 Power steering switch failure
 
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robsnyder225

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Thank you. I'll have to try this out to. I already know the wires to the coil need fixed. And I'm pretty sure that there are some relays missing from the inner fender. Just gotta start somewhere. I'll give an update after this weekend.
 

crazzywolfie

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You can test the wire to the coil. You just need to find that relay before you can really test much farther
 
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robsnyder225

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It didn't give any codes except the 55. Found all the relays and fixed a bunch of wires that looked like a rats nest. Got the fuel pump to work with the key and got power to the coil. Have power out of the coil but no spark from the distributor. Should this year truck have a reluctor in the distributor? Because it doesn't have one and I'm baffled, if its not the pickup coil then what could it be?
 

crazzywolfie

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so the fuel pump kicks on for a few seconds and then shuts off when you first turn the key on? do you also hear the throttle kicker on the throttle body making noise when you turn the key on?

your truck would not have a reluctor. they have a hall effect setup.
 
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robsnyder225

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The fuel pump kicks on and back off. The throttle kicker is also working like it should I believe. It makes noise when the key first turns on and then does it again when shut off. So now I believe its a spark issue and it may be the pickup coil. Just gotta find out how to test it and how to change it if its bad.
 

crazzywolfie

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the hall effect sensor in the distributor is easy to change. there is only 2 screws holding the hall effect sensor in the distributor and i think you can remove it with the distributor in in the engine. i don't now if there is a way to test the sensor.

have you checked to see if you are getting spark right from the coil?
 
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