6.4 Hemi 5th wheel weights

Considering a 5th wheel that's 9500 lb dry with a dry pin weight of 1625. Anyone with the 6.4 Hemi towing a similar weight 5'er? (I do have 3.73's)

This is as close as I can get. The pin weight is calculated as part of the payload.

2014 Ram 2500, 6.4L, Towing Data Fifth Wheel Trailer

Max Towing 12,590 Maximum tow weight
Max Payload 3,180 GAWR Fr 5,500
GVWR 10,000 GAWR Rr 6,500
Max Tow 12,580 Fr Actual 4,140
GCWR 19,500 Rr Actual 3,180

Weight Calculation:
Trailer cargo weight 1500
Include 20 gallons of fresh water on board. 8.33#/gl 168
Include full propane tanks (4.25 lbs / gallon)(20 gal) 85
Subtotal 1753
Trailer Dry Weight 9500
Trailer GCW 11253
Truck empty 6934
Fuel - 31 gallons x 6# 186
Passengers 500
Gear 300
Hitch 300
Truck GVW 8220
GCVW 19473
Max Truck GCWR 19500

GCVWR Over / Under -27

Exact same truck with a 9000# dry 5th wheel. Loaded up the 5th weighs about 10,500#. With that 5th, a 275# sliding hitch in the bed, my wife and 3 young kids I'm right at my 10,000# GVWR and about 1500# under my 19,500# GCWR.

As for performance, I'm reasonably happy with the setup. I am having some airbags installed to help the rear end bounce. The coils are great but when loaded to the max they aren't quite as stiff as I'd like. The engine does an admirable job with that load. My only complaint is the dreaded mile gap between 1st and 2nd gear. Once the RPMs are up in 2nd you can pull steep interstate grades at whatever speed you like. The 1-2 thing becomes a hassle on steep winding roads where you'd like to go 30-40. You can either rap it out in 1st or lug into 2nd and likely shift back to 1st.

A lot depends on terrain though. I'm out west with lots of hills. Honestly, the biggest annoyance for me personally is the 2 mile or so hill up to my house from the interstate. It's a pretty steep 40MPH road. I can't hold 2nd and am stuck winding out 1st and holding people up by going 35. Granted, this is a pretty isolated case and I just live with it. I rarely have any complaints once I'm away from home.

I currently have a 7K loaded pull behind that's a breeze to tow. This thing would be almost 3500 heavier loaded and twice the load on the truck (pin wt vs tongue wt). Everyone says it's so much easier to tow a 5'er. Is that realy the case?

Also how's the mpgs with the 5'er?

Mto, so you're saying the 66rfe is more the problem than the 3.73s? I'll have a few longer grades to climb in my area, but nothing too crazy. Typically in 4th at steady pace up the grades & 3rd to pass with my current trailer.

I thought there were a few guys towing heavier 5th wheels on the forum w/out issue. 9500lb just doesn't seem like it should be too much for our trucks.

I have given my speech on this a few times and i apologize to those who have read it more than once or twice...

BUT.... I had a 2006 cummins for a few years going into then end of 2014 we found out my wife was prego so we wanted the larger back seat the 4th gens offered. Late December we opted to buy a 2015 CCSB 6.4 hemi with 3.73 gears, which i felt was capable of what we needed it for. At that time we had a 37' bumper pull bunk house weighing in at 9,000 pounds loaded. We made a few trips with this setup and i was pleasantly suprised with the power it offered and still netted me 10 mpg on our long trip of the year (400 miles one way). I was okay with that...

Mid summer comes along and the wife decided she wanted to trade the bumper pull for a 5th wheel bunk house. So, i get the hemi setup to swap campers... We bought a 37' bunk house 5th wheel that now weighs 12,000 ish loaded. Dragging it home while it was empty the hemi was able to make it into 5th gear but I could definitely tell a big difference in this camper and my bumper pull... We took a trip that was relatively flat and roughly 100 miles one way. I netted 6 mpg on this trip and avoided our favorite lake as it was an extremely hilly (for nebraska at least) and I was scared of the hemi with the 5th wheel in those hills.

I truly felt good with the hemi with the bumper pull camper but it seemed once the added height of the 5th wheel camper and the added wind resistance came into play it didn't pull like I had hoped. It ran in 4th gear most of the time at 62 mph I was around 3500 RPM and lacked the power to accelerate around anyone. I wasn't impressed, but not saying it cant or wont do it.

In August of 15 we traded for a 2015 CCLB cummins and havent looked back. I'm not going to spend much time on how the cummins pulls as thats not what you are after but there is a big difference in power, acceleration and a modest increase in fuel economy.

Moral of the story, I feel the hemi was better matched with a bumper pull due to less wind resistance. I am not saying it can't or wont do a good job for you as everyones description of a good job are going to be different and this is just my opinion. I wish I would of had 4.10 gears, I feel that it may have made enough of a difference to have kept me in the hemi... who knows...

I have added Timbrens due to the fact that my 5th wheels tongue is around 1800 pounds. The truck supported it but as mentioned it felt a little sloppy with that much weight. Timbrens did an awesome job of solving that....

now a few pics for your view pleasures....

I think when you start to reach the max tow capacity (or a few thousand under it) on ANY truck things start to get difficult. The trucks can do it for sure....but its not comfortable doing it and neither are you and you will need to buy a lot of "towing helpers" to make it safer (air bages, WDH...yada yada).

I wouldn't expect anything different.

If I was planning on towing 12,000 lbs I would be getting a cummins without hesitation. its just safer.

JMO

U&A said:

I think when you start to reach the max tow capacity (or a few thousand under it) on ANY truck things start to get difficult. The trucks can do it for sure....but its not comfortable doing it and neither are you and you will need to buy a lot of "towing helpers" to make it safer (air bages, WDH...yada yada).

I wouldn't expect anything different.

If I was planning on towing 12,000 lbs I would be getting a cummins without hesitation. its just safer.

JMO

Click to expand...

while i agree with this, i can tag on a 4,000 pound boat on the back of the camper and the truck knows no difference... runs the same gear, runs the same rpm, runs the same temp and nets me the same economy...

12,000 and 4,000 putting me right at what my truck is rated for towing if not overloaded... Difference here being diesel vs gas...

but i still feel when you start talking 5th wheel i highly and strongly recommend diesel...

I'm only looking at most being at 10.5K lbs completely loaded up for a week long trip. I'd never attempt more than that with my ratings. It's odd that the pull behind towed better for you. As i mentioned everyone has told me 5'ers are a much better tow since the weight is in the bed, but "grain of salt" right.

I know a CTD would be preferred, but not in the cards anytime soon. I appreciate the feedback from all of you. I might just deal with the slow towing for a bit then see what diesels are about.

RoadDog66 said:

I'm only looking at most being at 10.5K lbs completely loaded up for a week long trip. I'd never attempt more than that with my ratings. It's odd that the pull behind towed better for you. As i mentioned everyone has told me 5'ers are a much better tow since the weight is in the bed, but "grain of salt" right.

I know a CTD would be preferred, but not in the cards anytime soon. I appreciate the feedback from all of you. I might just deal with the slow towing for a bit then see what diesels are about.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't trade my 5th wheel off now, even when i had a hemi the overall control of a 5th wheel is night and day difference. the ease of towing is fantastic, but there is added wind resistance and that is my complaint.

Your comment of dealing with the slower towing is exactly where you mind set needs to be. The hemi WILL do the same thing, and it will do it happily for you, but my mind set after owning a diesel prior was i didn't like seeing RPMs over 2,000. Again, not saying anything negative about either as the hemi needs to be up into the rpm band to make its power and it'd run 2500-3500 rpm all day long and not bat an eye...

take you time towing and you'll be golden. Sounds like the weights you have in mind should be of no concern for you. You may consider air bags or timbrens for added stability, not necessarily a need but do improve the ride.

I installed timbrens due to my camper but have noticed that when i drag our empty gooseneck trailer or dump trailer the ride is fairly rough as it get the timbrens really close to engaging but doesnt fully seat them. Once the trailers are loaded they work great...

9500 is doable but remember that is not all the weight of the combined vehicle, which is what your truck is rated for.

You are under the GCVWR with 9500 and a reasonable load in the trailer and the truck. But you do need to know what everything weights.

I noticed on buying the Ram that it shifted differently than my Titan, but at first figured it was just a 6-spd vs 5-spd trans. My Titan towed that same 7K+ lb travel trailer pretty well and accelerated thru all gears without a hiccup. First trip with Ram towing it, the torque mgmt reared its head and required some getting used to. I posted early on in my time on the forum about it.

That was about the same tow rating difference for both the Titan (9600 max w/ 7+K trailer) and the Ram will have (12,600 max w/10+K 5'er). The trans are just totally different, but I know the power is there. I just use the manual shift button and leave the tow/haul mode off. We'll see in a few weeks how it plays out.

MADDOG said:

9500 is doable but remember that is not all the weight of the combined vehicle, which is what your truck is rated for.

You are under the GCVWR with 9500 and a reasonable load in the trailer and the truck. But you do need to know what everything weights.

Click to expand...

Appreciate it. We typically try not to overload either, but I know it is very easy to do. The weight of the 5th wheel hitch will add a bit extra (360 lbs) to the payload, but I plan to only have us & some firewood in the truck and the rest on the camper. Clothes, chairs, food, , some misc, stuff, but nothing outrageous. Less than 1000 lb (half in ). And we don't travel with water in the tanks.

I travel with a bit of water but usually no more than 15 - 20 gallons, just in case.

With the pin weight, firewood, passengers and fuel weights; you should be good. It all depends on what goes in the trailer, too.

I considered a Cummins but my 5'vr empty weight is 8250# so I generally don't have a problem with towing it and the gear we take. It does get a bit slow on some of the 6% grades we haul over around here but I'm working on a "more power" plan now.

RoadDog66 said:

I noticed on buying the Ram that it shifted differently than my Titan, but at first figured it was just a 6-spd vs 5-spd trans. My Titan towed that same 7K+ lb travel trailer pretty well and accelerated thru all gears without a hiccup. First trip with Ram towing it, the torque mgmt reared its head and required some getting used to. I posted early on in my time on the forum about it.

That was about the same tow rating difference for both the Titan (9600 max w/ 7+K trailer) and the Ram will have (12,600 max w/10+K 5'er). The trans are just totally different, but I know the power is there. I just use the manual shift button and leave the tow/haul mode off. We'll see in a few weeks how it plays out.

Click to expand...

it sure does. and i feel like i could hit 160MPH with the gearnig

2k in the bed and 1.5k on the hitch. 3500 SRW standard bed 6.4l w/3.73. Only gripe (along with other owners) are the shift points.

"Oh, sweet debt. Thy name is Truck."

MADDOG said:

I travel with a bit of water but usually no more than 15 - 20 gallons, just in case.

With the pin weight, firewood, passengers and fuel weights; you should be good. It all depends on what goes in the trailer, too.

I considered a Cummins but my 5'vr empty weight is 8250# so I generally don't have a problem with towing it and the gear we take. It does get a bit slow on some of the 6% grades we haul over around here but I'm working on a "more power" plan now.

Click to expand...

Let me know how the "power plan" goes...might be cheaper than a trade in down the road

RoadDog66 said:

Let me know how the "power plan" goes...might be cheaper than a trade in down the road

Click to expand...

That's what I am thinkin' (and hopin' for) as well.

First phase is done. Second phase is on hold due to parts availability so I may jump to the third phase, then back track to #2 later.

RoadDog66 said:

I just use the manual shift button and leave the tow/haul mode off.

Click to expand...

The Tow/Haul will change the shift points of the trans, it also changes the cooling strategy for the trans and enables the Trailer Sway Control.

RoadDog66 said:

Mto, so you're saying the 66rfe is more the problem than the 3.73s? I'll have a few longer grades to climb in my area, but nothing too crazy. Typically in 4th at steady pace up the grades & 3rd to pass with my current trailer.

I thought there were a few guys towing heavier 5th wheels on the forum w/out issue. 9500lb just doesn't seem like it should be too much for our trucks.

Click to expand...

Hard to say since I've only driven the 3.73s. I really can't imagine the difference to the 4.10s is that drastic. Sure, it's better but how much? If I were to do a gear swap it would for sure be to the 4.56. As a side note my dealer recently told me this wasn't possible but I'm thinking he didn't know what he was talking about since I've read of others with the same truck doing the swap with no problem.

Anyway, as you can see from reading the posts, right around 10K is the time to start considering the diesel. The whole 5th wheel thing is a quirk though. The diesel of course adds pulling power but reduces payload by 750# or so due to the added weight of the engine.

I fully agree with many that the 10,000# GVWR rating on a 2500 is largely a numbers game to keep these trucks in a certain class. I generally have no problem getting a set of airbags or helper springs and assume I have a 3500 truck. It's just a big disheartening to spend +/- 50K on a truck knowing I'm going the technically overload it. The other option is to get a 3500 and live with super bumpy leaf springs. After driving the 2500 I can tell you the coils are plenty stiff for daily driving and I don't imagine the leafs are any softer.

I'm currently in the process of getting airbags installed to help my coils and will run with my setup through the summer and likely beyond. A Cummins well may be in my future but I've just got too much other stuff going on right now to deal with swapping trucks (and 5th hitches, etc.). Overall, I'm towing at the max of the truck and it does fine 95% of the time. The other 5% is decent and doesn't justify and immediate need to change.

On Edit - one last thought OP, you keep mentioning 9500#. Keep in mind that's the dry weight. You're going to be at least 1000# over that with barely anything in the trailer. Likely closer to 2000#. I have just basic blankets and camping stuff and I gained 1500#. I never weighed my trailer empty so I have to trust the yellow sticker. It sure doesn't seem like I put 1500# in it.