Brake Controller

Okay I received the explanation of how the brake controller is to operate from Chrysler. Some of you may already know this or this may have been explained before I dont know. Here it is see below.

15BlueStreak said:

Okay I received the explanation of how the brake controller is to operate from Chrysler. Some of you may already know this or this may have been explained before I dont know. Here it is see below.

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So it is better to plan for the snow where you can turn down the gain vs having the voltage be too low at all times and have your trailer push you through a intersection? Sounds to me like the are catering to idiots who don't know how to set the gain under inclement conditions by keeping the output low at all times.

Smoke and mirrors

I under stand that the pwm will not show up on a meter. But I would think manually sliding the override should produce 12 volts regardless. I get that they don't want the trailer to lock up in inclement weather that would be bad no doubt. I would like it better if Larry would have said that the trailer and truck would brake together to slow the whole package smoothly. Which I think maybe that is what he is trying to say but cannot put it on paper. Maybe they just need to make their program more aggressive on the heavier trailers where it is needed most it seems.

Nathan

15BlueStreak said:

Okay I received the explanation of how the brake controller is to operate from Chrysler. Some of you may already know this or this may have been explained before I dont know. Here it is see below.

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I'm speechless after reading the explanation. OK, not totally speechless. The purpose of proportional braking is for the TV and trailer to slow at the same rate and begin braking at the same time.

As far as not being able to read the voltage of a PWM signal, the person that wrote the explanation likely doesn't not have any education in electronics or experience with DC circuits. Any DVM will read the equivalent DC voltage of a PWM signal.

Frustrating!

What about the DTC that i posted and is stored on my truck : C10C6-92 . I was away . Havent had a chance to call ram yet.
I think they are all just reading from a manual/told what to say. They want to avoid the issue cause the pwm voltage changes so they use that as an excuse and say you cant measure it cause the voltage is constantly changing. The "tech" at my dealer gave me the same bull saying its a pwm signal so u cant measure it accurately with a dvm. Its a little over my head But....shouldnt it remain a constant Approx. 12v with gain kept at 10 and slider at 100%. Just like a light dimmer that uses pwm right? If the dial is all the way up its going to show the same voltage, if its at 50% or half way, the voltage will change but it will still be the same at 50% every time, and so on.....Is this correct

BossHogg said:

I'm speechless after reading the explanation. OK, not totally speechless. The purpose of proportional braking is for the TV and trailer to slow at the same rate and begin braking at the same time.

As far as not being able to read the voltage of a PWM signal, the person that wrote the explanation likely doesn't not have any education in electronics or experience with DC circuits. Any DVM will read the equivalent DC voltage of a PWM signal.

Frustrating!

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cc rider said:

What about the DTC that i posted and is stored on my truck : C10C6-92 . I was away . Havent had a chance to call ram yet.
I think they are all just reading from a manual/told what to say. They want to avoid the issue cause the pwm voltage changes so they use that as an excuse and say you cant measure it cause the voltage is constantly changing. The "tech" at my dealer gave me the same bull saying its a pwm signal so u cant measure it accurately with a dvm. Its a little over my head But....shouldnt it remain a constant Approx. 12v with gain kept at 10 and slider at 100%. Just like a light dimmer that uses pwm right? If the dial is all the way up its going to show the same voltage, if its at 50% or half way, the voltage will change but it will still be the same at 50% every time, and so on.....Is this correct

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If they give the bs about a multimeter not being able to read it someone at the dealer would have an oscilloscope that would show the entire waveform that would show the true voltage and frequency.

cc rider said:

What about the DTC that i posted and is stored on my truck : C10C6-92 . I was away . Havent had a chance to call ram yet.
I think they are all just reading from a manual/told what to say. They want to avoid the issue cause the pwm voltage changes so they use that as an excuse and say you cant measure it cause the voltage is constantly changing. The "tech" at my dealer gave me the same bull saying its a pwm signal so u cant measure it accurately with a dvm. Its a little over my head But....shouldnt it remain a constant Approx. 12v with gain kept at 10 and slider at 100%. Just like a light dimmer that uses pwm right? If the dial is all the way up its going to show the same voltage, if its at 50% or half way, the voltage will change but it will still be the same at 50% every time, and so on.....Is this correct

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C10C6-92 - Electronic Trailer Brake Manual Lever – Performance or Incorrect Operation. This is all I could find on the DTC using Google.

Back in the old days, the signal going to the trailer brakes was a variable amount of voltage that was sent by a rheostat controlled by the tow vehicle driver. The resistive load of the trailer brakes determined how much current would flow with respect to voltage, as voltage increased so did the current (Ohms law, current = voltage divided by resistance). When proportional braking came about (early 2000s) they needed a method to easily and inexpensively allow a computer to control the amount of voltage and current provided to the trailer's brakes, hence pulse width modulation, aka: PWM.

PWM is simple, it is an infinite stream of programmable time periods, in the case of our ITBMs, the time period is 250 Hertz. Within each time period, there is an off time and on time, the time sum of these two equal the time period. During the off time there is no voltage provided to the trailer brakes, during the on time, 12 volts is provided. Notice the voltage is either zero volts, or 12 volts.

The on time and off time is the bases of the proportional braking, the harder you press on the pedal (or slide the manual ITBM slide switch), the more on time and the less off time within each PWM period. As the on time increases so does the equivalent voltage of the signal and the more equivalent voltage the more current that is provided to the brakes increasing stopping power.



The above is an oscilloscope trace of my ITBM, gain of 10 and 100% brake request. Look to the bottom left and you can see the duty cycle of 63%, this means 63% of the time the ITBM is providing 12 volts (should be 100%). Frequency is 250 Hertz, the time period. Last is the DC average voltage of the signal, it should be 12 volts if providing 100% braking signal to the trailer brakes.

Hope this explanation is helpful.

Boss,

yes thank you. that helps. Idk about the code. They told me its stored as a dtc on my truck (thats what caused them to go into it). The test doesnt mention anything about checking any voltages on it anyway). It shows the itbm being replaced (if needed) or checking for loose connections yada yada.
So, so far they have tried to hook up their computer to my truck and couldnt get their computer to work to do the dtc test that i previously posted in this thread, then pulled the connector off the bumper and looked at it and came to the conclusion that its POSSIBLY the harness/moisture issue and replaced the harness from the bed to the bumper (5er package) . So, ill be making another call today for them to take another look at it. Im also going to be calling ram today. Im minutes from the dealer so bringing the rv there is no biggie. So.....did you show the scope results to your dealer? It looks like you have everything you need as proof, even trailer brakes tested. Should I request they do the same test like loveracing said above that you did? It seems pretty obvious from the scope reading. Or are they just telling you that they have to do what ram tells them like my dealer told me? By the way, I also have 2 dexters that are 7k . BTW, what the heck is that video of the car tire blowout?

cc rider said:

So.....did you show the scope results to your dealer? It looks like you have everything you need as proof, even trailer brakes tested. Should I request they do the same test like loveracing said above that you did? It seems pretty obvious from the scope reading. Or are they just telling you that they have to do what ram tells them like my dealer told me? By the way, I also have 2 dexters that are 7k . BTW, what the heck is that video of the car tire blowout?

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Having supporting documentation that identifies the issue has no value if you can't find anyone with Chrysler to look at it. The dealer said they were not technical and didn't know how to read a scope trace. Presented with my line chart that shows how the ITBM provides less braking signal as more is requested, they said Chrysler STAR said it (ITBM) is working as designed. I presented my data to Chrysler Corp, they told me I was measuring the braking signal incorrectly. I don't know how to argue with these levels of reasoning.

If you are talking about my dash cam video on my photobucket page, that isn't a blowout. That is some numskull using the right turn lane in an attempt to get ahead of traffic. What he didn't know and what the dash cam caught, was a water sprinkler that wasn't working correctly and was pouring a stream of water straight down on the roadway which he drove through in his little sports car convertible. Likely his second shower of the morning. You can see the water if you look closely but photobucket dumded down the video's resolution.

So we have 4 options:

1) keep trying to find someone to listen
2) replace with aftermarket
3) wait till someone gets killed or in a major accident
4) get rid of the truck and let someone else get killed or in accident

cc rider said:

So we have 4 options:

1) keep trying to find someone to listen
2) replace with aftermarket
3) wait till someone gets killed or in a major accident
4) get rid of the truck and let someone else get killed or in accident

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Dammit.

Sent from just outside a Chrysler final assembly plant with a bad attitude using Tapatalk

I dropped my 2500 off yseterday

I dropped my 2500 off yesterday for a few things including the Trailer Brake. I also notices right away that it did not seem to be working right. I tow a 9000lb travel trailer. I kept turning the gain up, and it seemed to have no effect. I will let you know what Farrish Ram in Falls Church, VA has to say about it.

I'll tell u exactly what they're going to say: "working as designed"

redskinredtaco said:

I dropped my 2500 off yesterday for a few things including the Trailer Brake. I also notices right away that it did not seem to be working right. I tow a 9000lb travel trailer. I kept turning the gain up, and it seemed to have no effect. I will let you know what Farrish Ram in Falls Church, VA has to say about it.

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cc rider said:

I'll tell u exactly what they're going to say: "working as designed"

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and if they do tell you that, which is about all they ever say anymore, ask them how they determined that? That will get them going.

For me, it is working as designed because they hooked a blower motor to the brake controller wire and the motor turned

It is working as designed......

As I expected it is working as designed. I guess someone is going to have to get killed for them to correct the issue!!! Pretty sad!!!

BossHogg said:

and if they do tell you that, which is about all they ever say anymore, ask them how they determined that? That will get them going.

For me, it is working as designed because they hooked a blower motor to the brake controller wire and the motor turned

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i needed a good laugh, thank you for posting that.

im convinced that most of these dealerships are filled with incompetent people.

cptwing said:

Just a thought but has anyone contacted these guys about this they are also in Colorado?

TFLtruck - Hall of Ike Gauntlet - Truck News, Views and Real World Reviews

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This is actually who I contacted, and they are currently looking into it.

They really wanted a local truck experiencing the issue but we havent been able to produce one..

I have considered just driving my truck up there over a weekend and showing them myself.

I also linked them this thread in my email to them, and we sent back and forth a number of emails.

I will let you guys know if anything comes of it.

What years is this impacting

Browny10783 said:

What years is this impacting

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The issue was first noticed in MY15, all RAM models with the ITBM.