Can (should) I tow this combination?

novelmike · May 13, 2017

I thought the driver WAS figured into the available cargo payload. If you have 1,500lbs for cargo/payload, that includes a full tank of fuel and 150 pound driver. The government needs to update that because everyone is so fat though.

*I cant remember the exact amount they allow for the driver.

TRCM · May 13, 2017

Totesmygoats said:
And put a ton of weight far away from CM, resulting in the trailer swaying all over the place.

If he's dumb enough to not do anything else or use sway control...yes.......never said it wouldn't.

novelmike said:
I thought the driver WAS figured into the available cargo payload. If you have 1,500lbs for cargo/payload, that includes a full tank of fuel and 150 pound driver. The government needs to update that because everyone is so fat though.

*I cant remember the exact amount they allow for the driver.

The driver is, but I don't remember the exact weight they use.

barr0208 · May 13, 2017

300 lbs passenger and driver and I think they also allow for gas and 150 lbs of options

ronheater70 · May 13, 2017

TRCM said:
If he's dumb enough to not do anything else or use sway control...yes.......never said it wouldn't.

The driver is, but I don't remember the exact weight they use.

Sticker on my 16 says "Occupants" 3046 pounds available for occupants and cargo...
as such, if driver was included one would assume it to say "passengers" and not "occupants" Using the word Occupant leads one to assume anyone "occupying" the cab of the truck..

My interpretation anyway.. I know some manufactures do include a 150 pound driver, but reading my sticker I don't think it applies, at least not on my ram..

Ionicbrick · May 14, 2017

I think their towing charts include 150 pounds for the driver, but the door sticker is actual weights based on a full tank of gas. You can always take your truck to a scale to get an even more accurate weight, as the ultimate limit is the gross weight.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TRCM · May 14, 2017

ronheater70 said:
Sticker on my 16 says "Occupants" 3046 pounds available for occupants and cargo...
as such, if driver was included one would assume it to say "passengers" and not "occupants" Using the word Occupant leads one to assume anyone "occupying" the cab of the truck..

My interpretation anyway.. I know some manufactures do include a 150 pound driver, but reading my sticker I don't think it applies, at least not on my ram..

That sticker is talking about occupants OTHER than the driver...you HAVE to have a driver otherwise the weight limits wouldn't matter....but you don't have to have any other occupants & cargo.

That is why is says what it does...maybe it should say 'additional occupants'.

ronheater70 · May 15, 2017

TRCM said:
That sticker is talking about occupants OTHER than the driver...you HAVE to have a driver otherwise the weight limits wouldn't matter....but you don't have to have any other occupants & cargo.

That is why is says what it does...maybe it should say 'additional occupants'.

Then why not say "Passengers".. I mean the sticker cannot be accurate then, as one driver may weigh 400 pounds, and another may weigh 120..

I do understand that a driver should be included, but i know for my last truck I bought new in 2013 it was not included, some said it was but upon diving deep it was found it wasn't. This is my first Ram and since I have way more payload than ill ever need, its not an issue for me, but it still leaves me curious.. I don't doubt that it might include driver, but the wording leaves me suspect.

Manual says this:

Here is what Ram's user manual says :

"Payload

The payload of a vehicle is defined as the allowable load
weight a truck can carry, including the weight of the
driver, all passengers, options and cargo".

So it would seem nothing but fuel is included in available payload?

Totesmygoats · May 15, 2017

Jesus christ, why are you guys even discussing this? First off it's moot, If you are within a persons weight of being overloaded, you should be over the scales to check anyway.

Second the answer is clearly printed on the charts. It does not include the weight of passengers or driver. It is GVWR - base weight = payload. GVWR is GRAWR - rear axle base weight + base weight. Base weight is the weight of the car with all accessories and fluids filled to maximum.

ronheater70 · May 15, 2017

Totesmygoats said:
Jesus christ, why are you guys even discussing this? First off it's moot, If you are within a persons weight of being overloaded, you should be over the scales to check anyway.

Second the answer is clearly printed on the charts. It does not include the weight of passengers or driver. It is GVWR - base weight = payload. GVWR is GRAWR - rear axle base weight + base weight. Base weight is the weight of the car with all accessories and fluids filled to maximum.

Well I for one am curious, as this post was mirrored on another camper forum where it was discussed as the payload allowable only being 1250 pounds on the OP's truck, so as such a 150 pounds included or excluded could make or break the deal..

As such, I know some manufacturers include drivers, some don't// This being my first Ram, I was curious as to how it was rated..

I am doubtful it is very important to Jesus Christ, but I was curious..

Totesmygoats · May 15, 2017

ronheater70 said:
As such, I know some manufacturers include drivers, some don't// This being my first Ram, I was curious as to how it was rated..

How is "the combined weight of occupants and cargo" in any way ambiguous? Do you think a driver is not defined as an occupant? Because they are. "Passenger" sure, driver is not a passenger, which is why it says occupants.

No, this does not vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, it's federally mandated.

zhoenixx · May 15, 2017

Just an update from OP here. It towed beautifully on the four hour drive home. I stayed around 60-62 mph and it didn't budge, even with several semis blowing past me.

There wasn't much wind, and my 1,200 lb RZR wasn't in the trailer yet, so we will see how tows does in those scenarios soon.

Thanks again for all the input, fellas!

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

ronheater70 · May 15, 2017

Totesmygoats said:
How is "the combined weight of occupants and cargo" in any way ambiguous? Do you think a driver is not defined as an occupant? Because they are. "Passenger" sure, driver is not a passenger, which is why it says occupants.

No, this does not vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, it's federally mandated.

Kinda been my statement all along, My sticker says Occupants..That would delete the driver from assumed payload numbers..So the available payload includes no one in the truck, in other words.. Others here said it included the driver, and one other said it included a driver and passenger. My point has been it is basically an empty cab. So when assuming a payload number, if your within 150 pounds of your limit.. You still have no one in the cab yet, so you are probably over your advised limits.

Totesmygoats · May 15, 2017

ronheater70 said:
I know some manufactures do include a 150 pound driver, but reading my sticker I don't think it applies, at least not on my ram..

Again, federally mandated. There are no "other manufacturers. So while I was agreeing with you, I was giving the complete information and pointing out inaccuracies, like this.

crash68 · May 15, 2017

RAM trucks are tow ratings are SAE J2807 which uses a specific set of assumptions to calculate maximum trailer weight ratings:

For light-duty full-size pickups (GVWR < 8,500 lbs.), SAE J2807 assumes that the tow vehicle includes any options with higher than 33 percent penetration(options found on at least 33% of the vehicle sold);

It assumes there is both a driver and passenger in the vehicle, each weighing 150 pounds;

It assumes that tow vehicles also include up to 70 pounds of aftermarket hitch equipment (where applicable); and

For conventional trailer towing, SAE J2807 assumes that 10 percent of the trailer weight is on the tongue.

Totesmygoats · May 15, 2017

crash68 said:
RAM trucks are tow ratings are SAE J2807 which uses a specific set of assumptions to calculate maximum trailer weight ratings:

For light-duty full-size pickups (GVWR < 8,500 lbs.), SAE J2807 assumes that the tow vehicle includes any options with higher than 33 percent penetration;

It assumes there is both a driver and passenger in the vehicle, each weighing 150 pounds;

It assumes that tow vehicles also include up to 70 pounds of aftermarket hitch equipment (where applicable); and

For conventional trailer towing, SAE J2807 assumes that 10 percent of the trailer weight is on the tongue.

This only applies to GCWR not payload, payload is as I stated previously. You'll notice the discrepancy you mentioned when subtracting GVWR and max trailer from GCWR.

crash68 · May 15, 2017

I posted the above more for the assumed weights factored into the tow ratings.

Totesmygoats said:
This only applies to GCWR not payload, payload is as I stated previously. You'll notice the discrepancy you mentioned when subtracting GVWR and max trailer from GCWR.

Yes there is some weird maths going with the GVWR. It's the GAWR that is more important not to exceed rather than the GVWR.

Totesmygoats · May 15, 2017

crash68 said:
I posted the above more for the assumed weights factored into the tow ratings.

Yes there is some weird maths going with the GVWR. It's the GAWR that is more important not to exceed rather than the GVWR.

GVWR is literally GRAWR - BRAW, so payload is literally the minimum amount of cargo that it would take to exceed GRAWR.

There is nothing weird about those "maths". Again, what you stated only applies to tow rating and GCWR. Payload factors in nothing but the base weight of the truck with all fluids at maximum capacity.

crash68 · May 15, 2017

Totesmygoats said:
GVWR is literally GRAWR - BRAW, so payload is literally the minimum amount of cargo that it would take to exceed GRAWR.

There is nothing weird about those "maths". Again, what you stated only applies to tow rating and GCWR. Payload factors in nothing but the base weight of the truck with all fluids at maximum capacity.

You've mentioned Gross Vehicle Weight Rating, Gross Rear Axle Weight Rating, and Base Rear Axle Weight, so where does base vehicle weight come into play? Also your numbers don't add(or subtract) up with what you've stated when using the SAE J2807 listed numbers

My original post said nothing about GVWR and as I stated was for Towing Capacity rating and associated weights factored in. So I have no idea why you quoted me and are being a DB about it.

Totesmygoats · May 15, 2017

crash68 said:
You've mentioned Gross Vehicle Weight Rating, Gross Rear Axle Weight Rating, and Base Rear Axle Weight, so where does base vehicle weight come into play? Also your numbers don't add(or subtract) up with what you've stated when using the SAE J2807 listed numbers

My original post said nothing about GVWR and as I stated was for Towing Capacity rating and associated weights factored in. So I have no idea why you quoted me and are being a DB about it.

They do add up, and you should re-read your post if you think you said nothing about GVWR. Why am I being a "DB" because I am tired of this discussion, it was moot to begin with, I dropped the relevant knowledge to end it, and yet... it doesn't end.

Can (should) I tow this combination?

Senior Member

USN, Retired

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

USN, Retired

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Junior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

ACME product engineer

Senior Member

ACME product engineer

Senior Member

ACME product engineer

Senior Member

Similar threads

Forum statistics

Share this page