Heartland Mallard vs. Keystone Passport...

I doubt this would be the proper location for this subject, so if the mods want to move it, I understand.

I'm on the cusp of buying a travel trailer that I'll be towing with my 09 1500 QCSB. I'm torn between the Heartland Mallard M245 and the Keystone Passport 2400. The biggest difference is $3000 more for the Mallard. Other than that, there's a few minor differences between the two. Just trying to figure out what you all would recommend and get if you were in this choice.

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Only opinions here.

Keystone seems to be known for poor customer service and difficult to work with on warranty stuff. One thing that may make a difference in the decision making process is the location and reputation of the local dealers that carry those models.

One big issue I see is that you are looking at bunk house models. I assume two parents and two children. The size trailers you are looking at would work well for sleeping but what happens in the evenings or morning when everyone is awake but wants to be inside. Where does everyone comfortably sit. Dinettes make for a poor choice for lounging in when not eating. If you have more than two people you really should look at a model with a dinette and a couch of some sort. Just because you are camping doesn't mean all waking hours are spend outside.

Yeah, we were looking at and really want the models with the dinette and the couch for more seating area, but GVWR on the is so close to the weight I can legally tow. They are either jut couple hundred pounds under the trucks max tow, or 600 or more pounds over.

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The devil is in the details, it pays to look closely at the specs. The Mallard is about 700 lbs heavier so it might be a little sturdier built (look at frame, axles etc.). It also has larger tanks. The Keystone claims more payload, coming within 100 lbs of the GVWR of the other trailer but it's still rolling on load range C tires. This is a common issue with many RV manufacturers, to save money they use the cheapest tire they can legally get away with.

As alluded to above, look around various RV forums to see what quality issues the different manufacturers have and how good or bad the warranty works.

csuder99 said:

The devil is in the details, it pays to look closely at the specs. The Mallard is about 700 lbs heavier so it might be a little sturdier built (look at frame, axles etc.). It also has larger tanks. The Keystone claims more payload, coming within 100 lbs of the GVWR of the other trailer but it's still rolling on load range C tires. This is a common issue with many RV manufacturers, to save money they use the cheapest tire they can legally get away with.

As alluded to above, look around various RV forums to see what quality issues the different manufacturers have and how good or bad the warranty works.

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Yeah, I had looked at those specs too. The heavier dry weight. The 43 gallon fresh water compared to the Mallards 52 gallon. Definitely giving me some good thoughts here. Only reason I hadn't gone to one of the rv forums, is cause I didn't want any "biased" opinions. But I'll definitely have to go check some out.

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I had a Trail Runner SLE 27

https://www.heartlandrvs.com/index....r-sle-27&catid=77:trail-runner-sle&Itemid=427

It was a 2014 model but the quality was outstanding for a budget RV.

Do you really care about 9 more gallons of water capacity?

Skrap said:

Only opinions here.

Keystone seems to be known for poor customer service and difficult to work with on warranty stuff. One thing that may make a difference in the decision making process is the location and reputation of the local dealers that carry those models.

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My experiences are different, I found Keystone easy to work with but the RV dealer a nightmare to work with. Keystone builds several nameplates including Montana, North America's #1 Selling Luxury Fifth Wheel for 15 Consecutive Years. You don't do this by being lousy. The RV dealership is more important but I have yet to find a quality dealership.

OP, wife and I visited several campgrounds talking with folks about their RVs, we learned a lot since we knew nothing. If you can try this, in particular, finding a good dealer.

RV dealers are only 10 times worse then car dealers, floorplan is the most important decision when choosing your RV and a gently used unit that's been debugged by the previous owner will give you the best value and least amount of headache. Having bought 2 new RV'S in the last 7 years, 2 different dealers, I still feel the pain..

I miss my keystone. I have a new forest river Sonoma 270 Bunkhouse big POS. Friend of ours has Forest River Cherokee it is also a POS.

Some manufactures are better than others but the RV industry as a whole leaves allot to be desired when it comes to Quality.

I have a 2016 Passport 2810BH. I chose it for the all weather setup and all aluminum construction. That is one of the reasons it is lighter. Had one issue with it that Keystone resolved without issue. Been on many, many camping trips with it and we love it.

jssmith76 said:

Yeah, I had looked at those specs too. The heavier dry weight. The 43 gallon fresh water compared to the Mallards 52 gallon. Definitely giving me some good thoughts here. Only reason I hadn't gone to one of the rv forums, is cause I didn't want any "biased" opinions. But I'll definitely have to go check some out.

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Biased opinions on a forum? Never.

That said, I've never had any issues with either of my keystone rv's except minor stuff I fixed myself.
No experience with Mallard, but both are probably made with lippert ( I know keystone is) components, which if you go on any rv forum, do not get glowing reviews.

As far as which one to get, well, only you can answer that one. If your​ close on payload with the Mallard, the Keystone might be a better fit though.

BossHogg said:

My experiences are different, I found Keystone easy to work with but the RV dealer a nightmare to work with. Keystone builds several nameplates including Montana, North America's #1 Selling Luxury Fifth Wheel for 15 Consecutive Years. You don't do this by being lousy. The RV dealership is more important but I have yet to find a quality dealership.

OP, wife and I visited several campgrounds talking with folks about their RVs, we learned a lot since we knew nothing. If you can try this, in particular, finding a good dealer.

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I am truly glad you have had a good experience with Keystone. If you go IRV2.com forum there tends to be an overwhelming opinion that Keystone customer service blows. Maybe a good local dealer can help mitigate some of this and a ****** dealer will exacerbate the problem. Also not sure the Montana would be considered a Luxury brand for 5th wheels.

Skrap said:

I am truly glad you have had a good experience with Keystone. If you go IRV2.com forum there tends to be an overwhelming opinion that Keystone customer service blows. Maybe a good local dealer can help mitigate some of this and a ****** dealer will exacerbate the problem. Also not sure the Montana would be considered a Luxury brand for 5th wheels.

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You can go to any forum about any product and walk away with a negative don't buy, don't touch attitude. People do not go online to compliment nor do they typically represent their problem exactly, it is more sided to support their position. Look at the number of posters that come here and post something like "I heard the RAM has issues with ..." and yet no one here has ever heard of or experienced anything close to what the poster stated.

I hang at rv.net and irv2 as well as a few others. Negative posts about Keystone aren't any more frequent than with other manufacturers and likely less since Keystone sells more product numbers. When you read into these negative posts, the problem isn't Keystone, it is the worthless RV dealer.

When my bride and I started to research RVs, and we started out knowing nothing, my first education was do not bother with online forums. No matter what model/brand I asked about, negativity poured in.

Our best real-world education came from talking with folks at campgrounds. Interestingly we didn't hear very much about issues with the various RVs people bought, all the complaints were about their RV dealer.

We ended up buying a Montana for a number of reasons beginning with the floor plan (mention above as important). Knowing all of the RV dealers in our area were going to be the issue we sent out a bid package and the lowest bid won.

After delivery, we had two issues with the Montana, the toilet bowl wouldn't hold water and the basement TV antenna jack didn't work. After not one or two returns but three repair attempts, the RV dealer still failed to fix the issues.

I fixed them myself, the antenna issues was a short cut center lead in the F connector and the toilet issue was the ball that closes the hole had a bur.

I don't know what defines "luxury" in RV speak. We looked at a lot of RVs and I noticed the more amenities, the heavier the RV became. I had a tow vehicle goal of single rear wheel 3500 period.

The Montana we purchased (3790RD) came with many amenities other RVs we looked at were missing. For example, the Montana came with six point hydraulic leveling, MORryde pinbox and true track suspension alignment, LED lighting, ambient lighting, fireplace, king size bed, all cabinets had roller drawers, powered vents, ceiling fan, heated theater seating, 12 year roof, four seasons package, and the list goes on.

After three years of pulling the Montana around, I have no complaints and still problem free.

What do you consider is "luxury" in RVs?

I don't disagree with all that you say. Maybe over in RV.net there are a bunch of Keystone leg humpers. The Montana line is nice for sure and is all I would ever need myself. In fact, the Outback line of travel trailers has a model of trailer that is second on our list because of the amenities it has. Second because of the horror stories I've heard about Keystone.

As far as luxury brands go. You used the term first. But since you asked, Luxe, DRV, Redwood and a bunch of others. Units I'd never own. The Price point of our 3790 is where I want to be and have the same theory on truck to tow it.

We have had great luck with our Keystone Outback. The dealer is possibly more important than the manufacturer when it comes to warranty work. The few things we needed done under warranty were completed the same day, with service being scheduled a week or two in advance.

You asked about the Heartland Mallard. I looked at Heartland and really liked the North Trail line. Go find a good dealer that carries that line and stay away from the Mallard. Why? Because the Mallard is the exact same model as the North Trail but branded for exclusive sale by Camping World. Stay the hell away from Camping World! You think you have heard bad things about various manufacturers? Camping World has a huge list of haters. I think there are a couple of decent locations, but those seem to be rare.

I drive 2 hours to get to my dealer and I am happy to do so. Seriously, the dealer can make all the difference in your experience.

Lol at RV dealers. I was buying my Freedom Express and another customer came in wanting to buy a camper, 2 salesman just pointed out to the campers and basically said TT's over there and 5th wheels over there. After he walked out, one of the salesman said "geez do I need to go hold his hand".. I have been to 4-5 and truly amazed by the lack of professionalism from dealers, at least here in Alabama. Anywho, got a buddy that has a keystone TT and he loves it and has had no issues

Heartland's Mallards, North Trail and Wilderness are aluminum framed and block foam vs the wood frame and regular insulation in the keystones. I just purchased a 2018 North Trail 28DBSS to replace my 2010 Keystone Hideout. Pulling it with a 2011 QCSB and the bigger trailer actually pulls much nicer but it may have something to do with the wide track axles under the trailer.


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I purchased a 2018 Mallard 31' about a month ago, In the last two months I have put 10,000 miles on her and It pulled like a dream. The first 4,000 miles I pulled it with a 2015 Ram 1500 5.7 and when I got back home the truck was bottoming out. Went down and bought a 2500 6.4 and loving it. I have a friend who purchased the same trailer and had to put air bags on his truck..... just something to think about when pulling with a 1500.

To the OP, currently, I'm looking at the Flagstaff 25BRDS and Rockwood 2509S (They're essentially the same trailer). We're going to be a traveling family of 4. 2 adults, 2 kids 12 and 8. If weight is an issue, you can save 500lbs and shorten trailer length with one of these. I'm running into the same dilemma with weights as the GVWR on the 1500 series trucks, even with the light trailers, doesn't leave much room for anything other than occupants and some luggage in the trailer.

Also, FWIW, from what I've been reading from the veteran RVer's pulling TT's, the comfort zone for most is a 15%-20% buffer on GCWR. Even with a 5000lb trailer and a Ram 1500, I'm finding it hard to get to the 15% mark. Occupants at 600lbs, tongue weight 600lbs, trailer cargo 500lbs, weight distribution hitch at 100lbs, tow vehicle weight 6500lbs, the trailer at 5000lbs. It all adds up, and we haven't filled the fresh water tank yet. Not that we'd typically run around with a lot of water in the tanks, but, again, if I wanted to the 1/2 tons don't leave much room for that and still be within the design specs of the 1500's.

Also, as noted by another poster, having owned a motorhome in the past, my wife and I are aware of the fact that you have to have a place to sit on days you can't, or don't want to, get out of the trailer. A dinette alone isn't enough. We're really liking the Murphy beds on the new TT's as the queen bed becomes a usable couch when not sleeping. It also helps keep weight down. We like the extra room of the slide and are ok with the added weight, however, if you can forego a slide, you can really save a lot of weight, and some money. Good luck with whatever you choose...

jssmith76 said:

I doubt this would be the proper location for this subject, so if the mods want to move it, I understand.

I'm on the cusp of buying a travel trailer that I'll be towing with my 09 1500 QCSB. I'm torn between the Heartland Mallard M245 and the Keystone Passport 2400. The biggest difference is $3000 more for the Mallard. Other than that, there's a few minor differences between the two. Just trying to figure out what you all would recommend and get if you were in this choice.

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I don't really know anything about the Mallard, but I can give you a general idea of my experience with Keystone's quality. I have a different model than what you're looking at, but I'd assume the quality levels will be similar.

In general I've been very happy with the trailer. I've owned it for about 4 years (from brand new) and have probably taken it camping 20+ times for anywhere from 2 to 7 days at a time.

I do find there to be a lot of issues with poor fit and finish throughout the trailer. Very poor attention to detail in these units.

This year my siding (my model has the aluminum siding) has started to bubble out and separate from the trailer.
I'm still waiting for an assessment by a local repair place, but the assumption is that the mounting pins were installed poorly and have come detached.
Hoping it doesn't turn out to be an expensive fix.

I've had to deal with Keystone's customer service people twice.
Once during a camping trip when something appeared not to be working properly (turned out to be user error), and they were very helpful.

The second time was for this siding issue, and their responses were timely and friendly, but not overly helpful in my opinion.
As the primary warranty has expired (only roof warranty left) they basically wouldn't help with any information whatsoever.

Overall the trailer is still in good shape. Everything still works well, and it tows beautifully.
If I could go back again, I would have the trailer undercoated.
When I purchased it we weren't yet living in the "salt belt", and now I find that it is rusting very quickly underneath.

Would I buy the trailer again? For the low price I paid, probably.
But this new siding issue is certainly giving me some reservations about the long term quality of Keystone products. So the jury is a out at the moment.

Hope that's helpful in making your decision.