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Ram 2500 Hemi vs 3500 SRW Cummins


This is a discussion on Ram 2500 Hemi vs 3500 SRW Cummins within the Towing & Hauling forums, part of the 4th Gen : 2009 - Present category!
Originally Posted by Skrap One thing I never see people talk about when comparing the cost of the diesel over ...


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Old 12-01-2016, 05:48 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Skrap View Post
One thing I never see people talk about when comparing the cost of the diesel over the gas in purchase price and return on investment is the "mental" side of the equation. Some will think I'm crazy or this doesn't make much sense but here is what I mean.

If you tow a fair amount (towing anything) there is a lot of mental things going on. "Can I merge onto the interstate safely and efficiently? Can I make a pass safely and quickly to not hold up traffic behind me? Am I going to have enough fuel to get me to the next station since I only get 175 miles/tank? What is the wear and tear on my gasser over the long haul? I would think these are common questions everyone who tows a trailer has in their heads. Some may battle over these questions ,more than others. For some, me included, these thoughts and the comfort I would get towing with a diesel is worth some of that additional cost, not just the hard numbers everyone talks about.

I could get a $50 Chinese axe and a $150 Gransfors Bruk felling axe. Both will do the job fine. While my initial cost is three time what I pay for the Chinese axe I am at peace with my $150 purchase knowing that the additional money spent will more than make up for the additional expense.

Just some ramblings while sitting ar the tire shop having a flat repair done on my work 1500.
I work on these things everyday and went with the 6.4 over the Cummins for the mental peace of mind. I would be thinking "is my DEF system going to take a shit and tell me I have 150 miles untill I am restricted to 5 mph when I am on vacation towing my camper somewhere?"With the gas it may take a little longer but at least I will get there and back. LOL


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Old 12-01-2016, 08:02 PM   #22 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by CDN Ram View Post
Interesting you would go with the Aisin Transmission option. I looked into this when I bought my 2014 3500 SRW CTD and all the Aisin transmission did was lower my towing limits by 140 lbs (the extra weight of the Aisin Transmission). Unless you go with the DRW or need the ability of the PTO, the Aisin transmission was nothing more than a $2800 waste of cash. Maybe longevity of the transmission might come into play but the A6 68RFE is a proven transmission so not sure about longevity issues. Am I missing something? please explain your though process behind the Aisin transmission in a SRW.

https://www.ramtrucks.com/assets/tow...ing_charts.pdf
My first answer would be "why not"? Going from 800 ft lbs to 900 ft lbs would be a positive too.

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Old 12-02-2016, 06:00 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by yoda View Post
I would be thinking "is my DEF system going to take a shit and tell me I have 150 miles untill I am restricted to 5 mph when I am on vacation towing my camper somewhere?
That is a fairly flawed reason lacking research. Of the 10s of thousands of these current emissions Cummins on the road, only a few have had issues and most of those were traced back to, for example, Walmart DEF jugs returned full of water, from what I've read on the various forums.

The reliability and dependability of the Cummins are unequaled.

Better reasons would be cost, small increase of maintenance costs, slow warm-up in cold weather, annoying dead-pedal, reduced vehicle payload, dual batteries, etc.
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Old 12-02-2016, 06:18 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by CDN Ram View Post
Interesting you would go with the Aisin Transmission option. I looked into this when I bought my 2014 3500 SRW CTD and all the Aisin transmission did was lower my towing limits by 140 lbs (the extra weight of the Aisin Transmission). Unless you go with the DRW or need the ability of the PTO, the Aisin transmission was nothing more than a $2800 waste of cash. Maybe longevity of the transmission might come into play but the A6 68RFE is a proven transmission so not sure about longevity issues. Am I missing something?
You are not missing anything unless I am too. I did the same research before ordering my 2015 SRW. The 68RFE earned a bad reputation back in the days when all the Cummins guys had to do to increase power was turn a screw on the injector pump pushing the power well beyond what the 68RFE was designed to handle.

The Aisin was brought into the mix for the C&C so a PTO could be offered for services vehicles like tow and dump. Because the Aisin made its way onto the pickups, folks got the impression it was a better transmission which it isn't. A bit of research on Allpar and the Cummins forum will yield results that Aisin owners do not want to hear. Also remember the C&C Cummins are derated to 600-foot pounds and serve the commercial duty market well.

In the Aisin 68RFE side by side tear-down compare, the differences were minor giving the Aisin the ability to handle more torque, but not $2,600 better and increasing your service costs since the Aisin requires more frequent service intervals.

If I was going to go to a dually I might consider the Aisin for the addition 100 foot-pounds but unless I am towing north of 20,000 I think I will keep the $2,600 in my pocket.

My thoughts after careful consideration, what did I miss? Now that I have two seasons of towing a 15,000 fiver, I'm not feeling I got cheated with the 68RFE.


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Old 12-02-2016, 10:26 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BossHogg View Post
That is a fairly flawed reason lacking research. Of the 10s of thousands of these current emissions Cummins on the road, only a few have had issues and most of those were traced back to, for example, Walmart DEF jugs returned full of water, from what I've read on the various forums.

The reliability and dependability of the Cummins are unequaled.

Better reasons would be cost, small increase of maintenance costs, slow warm-up in cold weather, annoying dead-pedal, reduced vehicle payload, dual batteries, etc.
Research? What research are you referring to? Reading internet forums?
I work on this stuff everyday, just had one this week. No other emissions system shuts you completely down until it is fixed, There is no limping it home. That's my main issue with any of the new diesels. These systems are very complex, lots of things to fail. Thy fail on fairly new trucks, it only gets worse with age and miles.
Not the manufacturers fault, Federal Gov. mandated it that way.

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Old 12-02-2016, 10:45 AM   #26 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by yoda View Post
Not if it happens to you, I work on this stuff everyday, just had one this week. No other emissions system shuts you completely down until it is fixed, There is no limping it home. That's my main issue with any of the new diesels. These systems are very complex, lots of things to fail. Thy fail on fairly new trucks, it only gets worse with age and miles.
Not the manufacturers fault, Federal Gov. mandated it that way.
They mandated the emissions standards, it is up to the manufacturers to meet it however they want, they don't have to use DEF, but it is what we have right now. I'm sure in a few years there will be some breakthrough and it will simplify the emissions to that of a gas motor, but until then I find it kind of nice driving behind diesel trucks that don't belch black smoke.

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Old 12-02-2016, 10:58 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by loveracing1988 View Post
They mandated the emissions standards, it is up to the manufacturers to meet it however they want, they don't have to use DEF, but it is what we have right now. I'm sure in a few years there will be some breakthrough and it will simplify the emissions to that of a gas motor, but until then I find it kind of nice driving behind diesel trucks that don't belch black smoke.

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Agreed. but the Feds mandated if your DEF system fails, the truck cannot be driven. Period. They could at least have let the manufacturer, derate the engine, or max speed 55. Nope your dead on the road. You can have a gas motor running pig rich cat converter missing belching hydrocarbons and you can still drive it. Not fair or reasonable in my opinion
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Old 12-02-2016, 11:02 AM   #28 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by yoda View Post
Agreed. but the Feds mandated if your DEF system fails, the truck cannot be driven. Period. They could at least have let the manufacturer, derate the engine, or max speed 55. Nope your dead on the road. You can have a gas motor running pig rich cat converter missing belching hydrocarbons and you can still drive it. Not fair or reasonable in my opinion
I partially understand their reasoning, but you are right it isn't right. As far as I understood it though it gives you a warning as to how far you have to go until it goes into limp mode, but I don't have any actual experience with them.

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Old 12-02-2016, 11:18 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by loveracing1988 View Post
I partially understand their reasoning, but you are right it isn't right. As far as I understood it though it gives you a warning as to how far you have to go until it goes into limp mode, but I don't have any actual experience with them.

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You get 150 miles, then truck will go 5 mph max. If your on vacation out west etc. Your callin a tow truck. Im not saying this is super common, but it happens.
My biggest gripe is allot of guys don't know this. They show up at our dealer and are pissed at me because the parts on backorder or whatever. I feel for them but I didn't build the thing or make the rules.

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Old 12-03-2016, 12:12 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Yoda - you work on them and I used to design them, well, I was a powertrain engineer that worked on teams (one of hundreds of folks) that designed diesel, gas, and hybrid powertrains (GM retired).

My point was, you may work on one here and there but keep focused the 10s of thousands that never had an issue. Using a DEF system as justification not to buy a diesel, well, it isn't a good reason as I was attempting to point out.

There are many reasons that will put a gas powertrain into limp-home mode too.


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