runs sometimes, wont run sometimes

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rob1020

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318
I have a 1992 dodge power wagon with a 318 and 140,000 miles on it. About 1 1/2 years ago it started dying for no reason that I could find, or cranking without foreign. When it does this I have 2 wires going to the coil (one is gray or white and the other one is green and orange) the gray wire shows no power when I test it. It might last for 2 minutes or 2 days and all of a sudden I have power to the gray wire I plug it in and off I go. I have probably towed it home 15 times just to have it start in the yard (sometimes).
I have replaced the crank sensor, fuel pump,fuel cap, fuel filter, computer, 3 relays that I could find, and removed the alarm system in case it was causing the problem, coil, and several valves and vacuum lines all to have it do the same. I do not know what to try next, it runs great when it starts until it dies, or sometimes I just shut it off and go to start it and it does not.
Any suggestions will be tried.
Thank for reading
 

crazzywolfie

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it almost sounds like you might have an electrical issue. can you hear the fuel pump cycle when it will not start? also seeing no power at the coil is normal. you will only see power there for the first couple seconds after you turn the key to the run position and while you are cranking the engine. computer turns the asd and fuel pump relay off when the engine is not running. does anything else not work when it quits running?
 
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rob1020

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Sorry I did not reply sooner, but I have been out of town. Everything else on the truck works when it dies. When it dies I have no power at all to the coil. I can turn it on and off and get no power and I can crank it over and still no power. A minute later, an hour sometimes a day later I have power to that gray wire that goes to the coil when cranking and I plug it in and it will start and run again. Now it might run for a minute an hour or a day and it will die again, and there will be no power to coil wire again. I replaced the computer that is mounted on the fire wall 1 year ago and things seemed to work fine for quite awhile then it started again, I am wondering if my grandson went mudding with and got water into that computer and screwed it up again.
 

crazzywolfie

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with a vehicle this old it could be anything. you may also want to start testing for power and ground signal at the fuel pump and asd relay. the key provide the asd, fuel pump relay and computer with power and the the computer supplies the asd and fuel pump relay with a ground signal. you should also test the power source wires for the relays.
asd%2Btesting2.jpg
asd%2Btesting.jpg
 
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rob1020

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Put new ASD relay in, ran for 15 minutes and died. I will try testing with the diagram you posted. When i could not get power last night my battery was getting low so I hooked my big charger to it and instantly had power to the coil and it started. Not sure but will try cleaning all battery posts and ground connections on engine and body. It just died again, I will go jump it and post later.
Thanks for your help
 
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rob1020

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Got engine to start again and now check engine light is on and when I put it in gear it runs like crap and dies. Now it sounds like crank sensor went again, or maybe it was going all along. Had it replaced 3 years ago and ran fine for quite a while and I thought if that was the problem it would always run bad. The problem now is that I can see sensor but from underneath the front drive line, tranny filler tube and exhaust is in the way. If I try to go in through the top the filler tube and egr tube are in the way.. Any ideas? I have pretty big hands.
Thanks for all your help.
Rob
 

crazzywolfie

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You should do the key dance to see what the computer is saying. To change the crank position sensor I am pretty sure the egr pipe has to be removed
 

ozzy_rt

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Sounds like a harness issue to me. Have you tried tracing back that gray wire??
 
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rob1020

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Gray wire traces back to large plug that goes into computer on firewall. How do I do key dance to get code?
Thanks guys
 
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rob1020

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Egr tube is missing one bolt and other one is pretty rusty and will probably break. Can I cut tube out and put back together with heater hose or just do away with egr altogether? Only gets about 10 miles to the gal. Anyway.
 

ozzy_rt

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Check continuity on that wire from the computer to the coil and wiggle the harness see how it affects the continuity
 

crazzywolfie

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Egr tube is missing one bolt and other one is pretty rusty and will probably break. Can I cut tube out and put back together with heater hose or just do away with egr altogether? Only gets about 10 miles to the gal. Anyway.
heater hose will melt. exhaust runs through that pipe so it gets hot. you could probably do away with it but make sure to plug all the hole so you have no leaks. they stopped using the egr setup on 96 and new trucks so i am not sure it is really needed
Check continuity on that wire from the computer to the coil and wiggle the harness see how it affects the continuity
before wasting any time tracing wires the relay connector should be tested for power to see where to go from there.
How do I do key dance to get code?
Thanks guys
1. Cycle the ignition key ON-OFF-ON-OFF-ON within 5 seconds. To cycle the ignition key ON means to turn it only as far as it takes to get the radio to come on. It does not mean to turn the engine on.

2. Count the number of times the "check engine" lamp on the instrument panel flashes on and off. The number of flashes represents the code. There is a slight pause between the flashes representing the first and second digits of the code. Longer pauses separate individual codes. For example, flash-flash-flash [pause] flash-flash represents the code 32.

A code of "55" represents end of error codes. If this is all you get then no error codes are stored in the computer. This is the normal condition

CODE Description of Trouble Code
11 Timing belt skipped 1 tooth or more from initial learned value, Intermittent loss of either camshaft or crankshaft position sensor, No crank reference signal detected during engine cranking
12 Direct battery input to PCM was disconnected within the last 50 key-on cycles (normal)
13 No change in MAP from start to run
14 MAP sensor voltage too low
15 No vehicle speed sensor signal
17 Closed loop temp not reached or engine cold too long
21 02s sensor problem (oxygen sensor), upstream or down stream
22 Engine coolant temp sensor out of range
23 Intake air temp sensor out of range
24 Throttle Position sensor out of range
25 Idle air control motor circuits, target idle not reached (+/- 200),vacuum leak found
27 Injector control circuit
31 Evap purge flow monitor failure or evap solenoid circuit
32 EGR system failure
33 A/C clutch relay circuit
34 Speed control Solenoid circuits
35 Rad Fan control relay circuit
37 Torque converter clutch solenoid CKT or park/neutral switch failure
41 Generator field not switching properly
42 Fuel pump relay control ckt, Auto shutdown relay control ckt, No ASD relay output voltage at PCM, Fuel level sending unit volts out of range, Fuel level unit No change over miles
43 Multiple/ single cylinder misfire
44 Battery temp sensor volts out of range
45 Overdrive solenoid shorted or open (automatic transmission only)
46 Charging system voltage too high
47 Charging system voltage too low
51 Fuel system lean
52 Fuel system rich
53 Internal control failure
54 No Cam signal at PCM
55 End of error messages (If you get this only, no errors were found)
62 PCM failure SRI mile not stored
63 PCM Failure EEPROM write denied
64 Catalytic Converter Efficiency Failure
65 Power steering switch failure
 
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