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6.4L Oil and MS-12633


This is a discussion on 6.4L Oil and MS-12633 within the Heavy Duty forums, part of the 4th Gen : 2009 - Present category!
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Old 01-05-2017, 09:08 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Old 01-05-2017, 10:20 AM   #12 (permalink)
 
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Coming from the BMW M3 world, specifically the E46 chassis 01-06. With the S54 motor, they are known to have bearing failures in the earlier models which was "corrected" in later production models but they also changed the oil to a Castrol 10w60 TWS which spec'd out to their liking. The bearings are now known to be a wear item at around 100k even with the 10w60 cause race car haha. There are numerous threads on this topic for the M cars and what people dont realize is even though its a 10w60, at temp its actually 0w40 variant which is what happens to oil as it heats up, hence the switch from 0w40 in the earlier production cars to a 10w60. The reason I bring this up is because manufacturers definitely take all things into consideration when specking out an oil for their motors and Id bet it has very little to do with keeping Pennzoil happy. Yea Im sure that plays a role, but with the abuse, heat and strain FCA knew the 6.4 HD trucks would go through, there's a reason the oil is what it is. I can udnerstand everyone wanting to save a few bucks on changes but honestly, if $10 savings on an oil change makes you happy, have at it. I didnt buy a 50k truck to save on an oil change, so Ill use whatever they recommend. Same thing with buying different octanes of fuel, $.20 a gallon difference between 87-93 equates to $6.20 a fill to have my truck with the better octane. Hardly noticeable on an $80+ fill up.

Just my two cents here.
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Old 01-05-2017, 10:51 AM   #13 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by HS-LD View Post
The oil life indicator is going to go off around 6500-7500 miles. By that time I will have changed the oil 3 times. I can always just use the Pennzoil every 3rd oil change and have receipts for compliance...

And the wording in the owners manual is interesting: The manufacturer "ONLY" recommends synthetic oil and api SN.

The manufacturer recommends (not "only") 0w40 and Penzoil and MS-12633. To take this to an extreme in a court case, as long as you ran a synthetic SN oil, you were complying with their exclusive recommendations, the lack of the word "only" for the other recommendations would preclude exclusivity. (At least that would be any reasonable lawyers argument.)

If I actually could find out what MS-12633 said or specified, I personally would be a lot happier. I don't mind running something if there are real reasons to do so. FCA shagging Shell is not a good reason. And that's what I'm suspicious of.
For the record, I am not arguing this as a right/wrong situation, just what is and is not the path of least resistance should an issue arrive. Everybody is an adult here and can make their own choices in this regard.

Biggest difference with PUP 0W-40 complying with MS-12633 is it has a healthy dose of Moly at usually just over 200 ppm when compared to many other oils have below 100 ppm or next to no Moly. Of course there is different types of Moly with some types not needing to have a high PPM to be as effective.

Lastly and to make you think, RAM engineering had a talk video were the question was asked to the RAM brand manager and RAM chief engineer if 0w-40 oil was required and they basically said it was not and all reliability testing was done with 5W-30 conventional oil. A video does not trump what the owners manual call out but makes one wonder the change from 5W-30 to 0W-40 and MS-12633 was all about? Many speculate the change was to align with SRT 6.4 engine requirements and to avoid confusion even though the RAM 6.4 engine was purpose design for truck requirement and not a SRT drop in engine. Unfortunately, that video has since gone private on Youtube but was discussed in past threads here.


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Old 01-05-2017, 12:33 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I tried Mobile 1 and I had more engine noise, tried it for 2 OCI's and am back to the Penzoil, runs quieter now. As for octane, I think the trucks are tuned for 87
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Old 01-05-2017, 07:37 PM   #15 (permalink)
 
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If we were required to use Pennzoil Ultimate Platinum, the dealerships would be required to provide it for free. I believe it's something Magnusson Act/Law. I heard about it from a Lucas Oil rep at a trade show. Probably why Amsoil obtained the MS-12633 rating so fast. FCA probably went to the most expensive oil vendor, and helped them get the spec. on their product, that way people would buy the Pennzoil to save money.

But that's my hunch.
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Old 01-06-2017, 02:12 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Hootbro View Post
For the record, I am not arguing this as a right/wrong situation, just what is and is not the path of least resistance should an issue arrive. Everybody is an adult here and can make their own choices in this regard.

Biggest difference with PUP 0W-40 complying with MS-12633 is it has a healthy dose of Moly at usually just over 200 ppm when compared to many other oils have below 100 ppm or next to no Moly. Of course there is different types of Moly with some types not needing to have a high PPM to be as effective.

Lastly and to make you think, RAM engineering had a talk video were the question was asked to the RAM brand manager and RAM chief engineer if 0w-40 oil was required and they basically said it was not and all reliability testing was done with 5W-30 conventional oil. A video does not trump what the owners manual call out but makes one wonder the change from 5W-30 to 0W-40 and MS-12633 was all about? Many speculate the change was to align with SRT 6.4 engine requirements and to avoid confusion even though the RAM 6.4 engine was purpose design for truck requirement and not a SRT drop in engine. Unfortunately, that video has since gone private on Youtube but was discussed in past threads here.
Yes for sure. I am not being in any way defensive, though sometimes writing makes it sound that way when if we were having a few beers face to face we would all be laughing and enjoying the discussion. It doesn't help that Oil is as bad as or worse than religion or politics!

The video you describe is mind numbing. Not sure what to make of that. My hunch is you could probably run 5w30 synthetic, change it every 5000 miles and get 500,000 miles out of a 6.4L... assuming the MDS didn't have a cow with it.

For me it's not about the price really, because with careful shopping and rebates the PUP can be had for same or cheaper. But the lack of availability is what bothers me. The largest Autozone in the city doesn't even carry the stuff. (No one does from what I can tell.) Wally World is 3 miles away and I can get all the M1 and Castrol 0w40 I want 24 hours a day. And the Castrol being a group 4 syn for $26 is impressive.

I did notice my oil pressure is around 56 when I first start up until it warms up, but it has be 10F degrees lately too... Other than that the engine is quiet with the Castrol.
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Old 01-06-2017, 02:21 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Andrew09HEMI View Post
Coming from the BMW M3 world, specifically the E46 chassis 01-06. With the S54 motor, they are known to have bearing failures in the earlier models which was "corrected" in later production models but they also changed the oil to a Castrol 10w60 TWS which spec'd out to their liking. The bearings are now known to be a wear item at around 100k even with the 10w60 cause race car haha. There are numerous threads on this topic for the M cars and what people dont realize is even though its a 10w60, at temp its actually 0w40 variant which is what happens to oil as it heats up, hence the switch from 0w40 in the earlier production cars to a 10w60. The reason I bring this up is because manufacturers definitely take all things into consideration when specking out an oil for their motors and Id bet it has very little to do with keeping Pennzoil happy. Yea Im sure that plays a role, but with the abuse, heat and strain FCA knew the 6.4 HD trucks would go through, there's a reason the oil is what it is. I can udnerstand everyone wanting to save a few bucks on changes but honestly, if $10 savings on an oil change makes you happy, have at it. I didnt buy a 50k truck to save on an oil change, so Ill use whatever they recommend. Same thing with buying different octanes of fuel, $.20 a gallon difference between 87-93 equates to $6.20 a fill to have my truck with the better octane. Hardly noticeable on an $80+ fill up.

Just my two cents here.
I'm totally with you. I use 91 octane Costco Tier 1 exclusively and if I cant get to Costco, or am on a trip use the best gas I can find. These Hemi's do get better mileage with better gas and it does offset the cost. But cost isn't really the issue.

Same for the oil. For me it's the availability that is the hang up. I like being able to source stuff locally. And Amazon has screwed up so many of my prime orders they keep threatening me with account closure. They want to close my account because they keep sending me the wrong items or damaged goods and don't like that I return them. LOL. What a racket.


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Old 01-06-2017, 09:28 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Squirrel6.4 View Post
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Used some M1 5w-40 this last go around...not gonna do it again. Everything seems a little noisier than before.


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Old 01-06-2017, 09:31 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RAM_Designs View Post
Used some M1 5w-40 this last go around...not gonna do it again. Everything seems a little noisier than before.
Really?

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Old 01-06-2017, 11:21 AM   #20 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by HS-LD View Post
Yes for sure. I am not being in any way defensive, though sometimes writing makes it sound that way when if we were having a few beers face to face we would all be laughing and enjoying the discussion. It doesn't help that Oil is as bad as or worse than religion or politics!

The video you describe is mind numbing. Not sure what to make of that. My hunch is you could probably run 5w30 synthetic, change it every 5000 miles and get 500,000 miles out of a 6.4L... assuming the MDS didn't have a cow with it.

For me it's not about the price really, because with careful shopping and rebates the PUP can be had for same or cheaper. But the lack of availability is what bothers me. The largest Autozone in the city doesn't even carry the stuff. (No one does from what I can tell.) Wally World is 3 miles away and I can get all the M1 and Castrol 0w40 I want 24 hours a day. And the Castrol being a group 4 syn for $26 is impressive.

I did notice my oil pressure is around 56 when I first start up until it warms up, but it has be 10F degrees lately too... Other than that the engine is quiet with the Castrol.
FWIW, I ran my last 5K OCI using a full synthetic 5W-30 and notice no operational issue with it and MDS worked fine. Currently have a oil sample at Blackstone Lab waiting to here back on it. Now back to running Pennzoil 0W-40 for the current OCI.

As you have eluded to, the biggest problem is general availability of Pennzoil PUP 0W-40 outside of online sales is next to nothing. I think if the issue ever arises that someone got pushback for not using a MS-12633 oil, it will be the lack of walk in brick and mortar outlets not carrying it and dealership only MOPAR oil would chip into a Magnuson Moss claim of being stuck of only having the dealership reliance for it. 99.9% of people will probably be fine using any good name brand 0W-40 for that matter.
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