90 octane non-ethanol

Is the ****. I'm driving a different truck. Part of me screams "IT'S ******** TO HAVE TO SUFFER UP TO 10% ETHANOL!" while the other part screams "BUT RIGHT NOW I DON'T HAVE TO! HAHAHAHA!" Basically I'm sorry so many of you are getting hosed with winter mix. Although since it appears that every known oil patch in Trumplandia is about to get tapped, who knows? Could be greater(?) gas right around the corner. Happy Holidays!

"Oh, sweet debt. Thy name is Truck."

PippinAin'tEasy said:

Is the ****. I'm driving a different truck. Part of me screams "IT'S ******** TO HAVE TO SUFFER UP TO 10% ETHANOL!" while the other part screams "BUT RIGHT NOW I DON'T HAVE TO! HAHAHAHA!" Basically I'm sorry so many of you are getting hosed with winter mix. Although since it appears that every known oil patch in Trumplandia is about to get tapped, who knows? Could be greater(?) gas right around the corner. Happy Holidays!

"Oh, sweet debt. Thy name is Truck."

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We have 88 real gas around here. The mileage is so bad with the normal E-10 winter blend, it's probably worth it to use the real gas.


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**** we don't even get that option up here. Even the premium fuel is still cut- they just don't advertise it as such (most places) unless you ask. 87 up to 10%, some stations sell 89 that is up to 10% and all stations have "Premium" 91/93 that is an unadvertised 5%. It's -40 deg celcius right now (which is -40 F) and I am averaging a whopping 8MPG.

smurfs_of_war said:

**** we don't even get that option up here. Even the premium fuel is still cut- they just don't advertise it as such (most places) unless you ask. 87 up to 10%, some stations sell 89 that is up to 10% and all stations have "Premium" 91/93 that is an unadvertised 5%. It's -40 deg celcius right now (which is -40 F) and I am averaging a whopping 8MPG.

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Shell 91 is 100% gas and is the only fuel not using ethanol. Our new Audi requires premium and they recommend Shell for that reason. I still prefer the Petro 94 though, boosted engines love ethanol.

a local station has 89 recreational gas (100% gasoline) but it's 3.99 a gallon!!!

Ethanol gas, the second biggest load of sh*t ever force fed to us.. right behind man-made global warming.

2015HD said:

Ethanol gas, the second biggest load of sh*t ever force fed to us.. right behind man-made global warming.

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I'm an amateur meteorologist and I like to pay attention to this so call global warming theory which is a theory. There is not the science behind it that I have seen. The coefficients used in the theoretical model for global warming were not proven out and if anything, the ice cores have shown this is a normal earth cycle. What really is bothersome is when Trump asked for the research and the names of the researchers from the EPA, they went mum. That in itself says volumes.

That enthanol free 90 is nice, one station close to the house sells it but damn is it high. On a good note, more stations are SLOWLY adding "ethanol free" options.

What's ethanol?

The craziest thing about Ethanol is the 'Net ' effect from producing and using it results in more C02 being released into the atmosphere than if we just burned straight gas.

2015HD said:

The craziest thing about Ethanol is the 'Net ' effect from producing and using it results in more C02 being released into the atmosphere than if we just burned straight gas.

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Don't tell the zealots that.

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You guys realize that ethanol is added to the fuel now as an octane booster, right?

Originally they used lead to up the octane. Then they switched to MTBE. Now, they generally use BTEX because lead and MTBE are generally outlawed. MTBE used to cause BIG problems with gumming up the fuel system.

I only run E-10 in my truck, largely because the ethanol content keeps my fuel system clean. If you don't believe me, go look at almost any "Fuel System Cleaner" kit or treatment and you'll see it contains ethanol or alcohol of some type.

Here's some good reading on the subject: Fact Sheet: A Brief History of Octane in Gasoline: From Lead to Ethanol | White Papers | EESI

Dubstep Shep said:

You guys realize that ethanol is added to the fuel now as an octane booster, right?

Originally they used lead to up the octane. Then they switched to MTBE. Now, they generally use BTEX because lead and MTBE are generally outlawed. MTBE used to cause BIG problems with gumming up the fuel system.

Here's some good reading on the subject: Fact Sheet: A Brief History of Octane in Gasoline: From Lead to Ethanol | White Papers | EESI

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True that ethanol raises the octane but octane is really a product of the refining or distilling process;

"4. Reforming
Octane rating is a key measurement of how well a gasoline performs in an automobile engine. Much of the gasoline that comes from the Crude Units or from the Cracking Units does not have enough octane to burn well in cars.

The gasoline process streams in the refinery that have a fairly low octane rating are sent to a Reforming Unit where their octane levels are boosted. These reforming units employ precious-metal catalysts – platinum and rhenium – and thereby get the name “rheniformers.” In the reforming process, hydrocarbon molecules are “reformed” into high octane gasoline components. For example, methyl cyclohexane is reformed into toluene."

From the horse's mouth.
Processing & Refining Crude Oil | What We Do | About the Refinery

Yea, MTBE is bad mojo but there has to be a better answer than Ethanol. You will find plenty of positions on the internet and after doing some additional reading I learned that studies now show corn for Ethanol may be linked to the sharp decline in bee populations. Learn something new every day:

The case against ethanol

EPA calls for lower Ethanol levels

2015HD said:

Yea, MTBE is bad mojo but there has to be a better answer than Ethanol. You will find plenty of positions on the internet and after doing some additional reading I learned that studies now show corn for Ethanol may be linked to the sharp decline in bee populations. Learn something new every day:

The case against ethanol

EPA calls for lower Ethanol levels

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Unfortunately, the EPA article was published in the fall of 2015 and the ethanol reduction was for 2016, I didn't see any reduction, crap!

BossHogg said:

Unfortunately, the EPA article was published in the fall of 2015 and the ethanol reduction was for 2016, I didn't see any reduction, crap!

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Personally pushing for more transparent departmental naming solutions. For example "Environmental Proposition Agency" seems more in line with their current line of thinking.

"Oh, sweet debt. Thy name is Truck."

Octane rating

BossHogg said:

True that ethanol raises the octane but octane is really a product of the refining or distilling process;

"4. Reforming
Octane rating is a key measurement of how well a gasoline performs in an automobile engine. Much of the gasoline that comes from the Crude Units or from the Cracking Units does not have enough octane to burn well in cars.

The gasoline process streams in the refinery that have a fairly low octane rating are sent to a Reforming Unit where their octane levels are boosted. These reforming units employ precious-metal catalysts – platinum and rhenium – and thereby get the name “rheniformers.” In the reforming process, hydrocarbon molecules are “reformed” into high octane gasoline components. For example, methyl cyclohexane is reformed into toluene."

From the horse's mouth.
Processing & Refining Crude Oil | What We Do | About the Refinery

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BossHogg:
I am new to the Ram Forum - please excuse any text entry missteps - this entry/text editor is clunky.
I appreciate the technical reference to octane from the refiners perspective. However, I disagree that "octane is really a product of the refining or distilling process".

"Octane" (RM/2 and RON) is a measurement of "resistance to knock" (Knock = premature combustion during the compression stroke of the Otto cycle in spark ignition engines). This attribute of the fuel does not only come from catalytic reforming at a petroleum refinery - that is merely one method to produce high octane products. I will concede FCC units are common but because they have high costs to operate (high cost catalyst), it is often optimized/ reduced/ minimized as much as possible, where possible.

Blending to increase octane is the primary method of octane lift used in the US gasoline pool. (Lift = A base stock of naphtha or natural gasoline at 77 to 81 octane, taken up to finished gasoline at 87-94). Mixing in lower cost products introduces a market based incentive to find low cost octane sources such as ethanol or butane - neither coming from refineries. Market forces cause refiners to blend the lowest cost admixtures to produce an on spec product. While this process currently is primarily ethanol and butane, this also allows for BTX or other aromatics you reference.

Blending to achieve octane lift makes ethanol a great solution and is why it is so popular globally as an octane booster...it is simply dirt cheap octane without the environmental load you get from MTBE and BTX.

Importantly, nearly all gasoline produced in the US is coming off the back-end of the refinery between 82 & 87 octane, as an unfinished product known as CBOB or RBOB (Conventional Blendstock for Oxygenate Blending or Refined... for RFG markets). These "BOB's" are engineered to have ethanol added explicitly to increase the octane rating.
Induced by legislation (EISA 2007), refiners have recognized this thermodynamic economic logic and configured FCC units such that they can only produce suboctane that requires ethanol to make spec.


Long winded but... octane can come from a couple of places.