Boat Ramps and Sand - 4X4/LS performance

TC-Tex · Feb 25, 2015

Hey folks. I've never owned a Ram before. Getting very close to pulling the trigger on a 2500 Mega Cab 4X4, either Hemi with 6.4 & 4.10 or the Cummins. Most likely the Hemi.

My last truck was an 03 Chevy 1500HD. I never had issues with it on slick boat ramps or muddy shores trying to pull my boat out (20 ft Bass Boat). It was 4x4 with limited slip and auto locking rear. I also took a few trips a year to the beach and never got stuck in fluffy sand either. Our favorite fishing spot is about 20 miles down the texas beach. I got nervous on several occasions, but it always pulled through.

So my question is have any of you used your trucks in similar situations? How did it perform? Anyone disappointed? All the guys I know have Ford F250s or Chevy 2500s, so I don't have much for comparison. I planned on getting the Anti-Slip diff.

I test drove a 2500 with the Cummins last weekend and came very close to buying, The power is amazing. I only work a few miles from home and the TT we are looking at getting is a bumper pull and only around 8K loaded. I'm thinking the Hemi will be better for me, and I can get that lifetime warranty.

Oh by the way, I did try searching for info like this but haven't been successful so far. Trust me, I'm in research overload. I've also almost completed the monster "6.4 HD Hemi Thread". Geez!

Any and all comments appreciated!
Thanks!
Tony

SouthTexan · Feb 25, 2015

You shouldn't have any troubles compared to what you came out of. The Ram 2500/3500 limited slip is a gear type AAM Tracrite GT that does not need rebuilding like the clutch style. It works very similar in function to the Detroit True-Trac.

New 2013 and up Ram 2500/3500 also have BLD(Brake Lock Differential) which is what Chrysler calls their electronic limited slip. What this does is use the brakes to ensure that both wheels on the same axles are spinning at the same rate acting as a limited slip for all four wheels. Before this feature, most 4x4 trucks had open front differentials meaning that only one tire will spin up front in a loss traction scenario. With this feature, it will apply the brake to the tire that is spinning which will send power to the other wheel that has traction simulating what limited slip does. It is the same system found in Jeeps and is explained in the video below.

http://youtu.be/yxHQeO-Y7GU

loveracing1988 · Feb 25, 2015

SouthTexan said:
You shouldn't have any troubles compared to what you came out of. The Ram 2500/3500 limited slip is a gear type AAM Tracrite GT that does not need rebuilding like the clutch style. It works very similar in function to the Detroit True-Trac.

New 2013 and up Ram 2500/3500 also have BLD(Brake Lock Differential) which is what Chrysler calls their electronic limited slip. What this does is use the brakes to ensure that both wheels on the same axles are spinning at the same rate acting as a limited slip for all four wheels. Before this feature, most 4x4 trucks had open front differentials meaning that only one tire will spin up front in a loss traction scenario. With this feature, it will apply the brake to the tire that is spinning which will send power to the other wheel that has traction simulating what limited slip does. It is the same system found in Jeeps and is explained in the video below.

http://youtu.be/yxHQeO-Y7GU

Where did you find that the jeep technology is in the trucks? It isn't in mine and I'm sure of that. In my wife's jeep you can hear the abs motor working so you know when it kicks in, I have never heard that in mine and only one front tire spins.

SouthTexan · Feb 25, 2015

loveracing1988 said:
Where did you find that the jeep technology is in the trucks? It isn't in mine and I'm sure of that. In my wife's jeep you can hear the abs motor working so you know when it kicks in, I have never heard that in mine and only one front tire spins.

2013
http://blogs.cars.com/files/2013_ram_hd_cc_safetysecurity-1.pdf

2014
http://media.chrysler.com/newsrelea...44C5BB3496872DC2B7448C9403FC?&id=14812&mid=69

"Brake-lock differential system (BLDS): Allows the vehicle to maintain forward motion if one or two wheels lose traction by selectively and aggressively applying brakes to the spinning wheels"

loveracing1988 · Feb 25, 2015

SouthTexan said:
2013
http://blogs.cars.com/files/2013_ram_hd_cc_safetysecurity-1.pdf

2014
http://media.chrysler.com/newsrelea...44C5BB3496872DC2B7448C9403FC?&id=14812&mid=69

"Brake-lock differential system (BLDS): Allows the vehicle to maintain forward motion if one or two wheels lose traction by selectively and aggressively applying brakes to the spinning wheels"

Well, I'm reading it, but that doesn't explain why I still don't have it.

SouthTexan · Feb 26, 2015

loveracing1988 said:
Well, I'm reading it, but that doesn't explain why I still don't have it.

You should have it unless it is only for certain trim levels, but I would think it is standards since it is a part of ESC.

It is also on page 506 of the owners manual.

"Traction Control System (TCS) – If Equipped
The TCS monitors the amount of wheel spin of each of
the driven wheels. If wheel spin is detected, brake
pressure is applied to the slipping wheel(s), and engine
power is reduced to provide enhanced acceleration and
stability. A feature of the TCS functions similarly to a
limited-slip differential and controls the wheel spin
across a driven axle. If one wheel on a driven axle is
spinning faster than the other, the system will apply the
brake of the spinning wheel. This will allow more engine
torque to be applied to the wheel that is not spinning.
This feature remains active even if TCS and ESC are in
the “Partial Off” mode. Refer to “Electronic Stability
Control (ESC)” in this section of this manual. This brake
pressure modulation transfers drive torque from slipping
to non-slipping wheels to provide optimal forward traction"

wyo2track · Feb 26, 2015

This makes sense to me now. I'm always disengaging the TC button before fighting up an icy road or turning around in a snow covered area. Cannot stand it when the traction control does its job and dumps engine power when my tires start to spin when I'm trying to keep momentum up. :banghead:

With the TC button turned off, I have encountered when the ABS system suddenly came on when my wheels began to spin several times. I don't recall engine power being disabled, but the ABS was definitely trying to do something, very aggressive in nature. It hasn't done it enough to the point where I'm expecting it...usually startles the hell out of me. I'm assuming this is the BLDS system..? Still trying to get used to a piece of equipment that is trying to out think me...

Ratket · Feb 26, 2015

go go Diablo tunner with hemi fever tuning and tcs fully disabled!!

TC-Tex · Feb 26, 2015

Thanks for all the replies. I didn't know about BLD at all, and very little about TCS. I was just making sure to order the "Anti Spin Differential". :banghead:

SouthTexan · Feb 26, 2015

wyo2track said:
This makes sense to me now. I'm always disengaging the TC button before fighting up an icy road or turning around in a snow covered area. Cannot stand it when the traction control does its job and dumps engine power when my tires start to spin when I'm trying to keep momentum up. With the TC button turned off, I have encountered when the ABS system suddenly came on when my wheels began to spin several times. I don't recall engine power being disabled, but the ABS was definitely trying to do something, very aggressive in nature. It hasn't done it enough to the point where I'm expecting it...usually startles the hell out of me. I'm assuming this is the BLDS system..?

Yes, that is BLDS. It cannot be disabled by turning off the TCS although I don't know why someone would want to turn off the BLDS. The BLDS makes your truck a lot more capable off road with it on then older open front and rear diff 4x4 trucks or even those with an open front diff with an LSD rear. You will hear the normal ABS grinding noise when it kicks on, but it is not damaging anything.

I remember a few years ago on a trip to Moab. My Jeep that I trailered up there broke down on the first day with no way fix it. I was forced to rent a Jeep if I wanted to go on the trails with the club. The only Jeep available for rent was a non- Rubicon(which means no lockers) 2012 Jeep Sport with a 2 inch lift on 33s. I thought I was going to be in for a long day of having to be winched on almost every obstacle since I knew the Jeep Sports were only open diffs front and rear. I knew what BLDS was, but heard horror stories of early variations of it on older Jeeps. The guy that the Canyonlands Jeep Adventure rentals assured me that I did not need lockers with BLD, and boy was he right. I was surely amazed how well it kept up with the other Jeeps with lockers. Don't get me wrong, the guys with lockers were able to get over the obstacle with less or even no wheel spin compared to the BLD since the BLD requires a wheel to spin to activate, but it went up and over just about anything you pointed the Jeep to go with little fuss. If the BLD system on our trucks is even like the old BLD system on the Jeep, then these trucks should be way more capable than the older trucks without BLD.

Here is a video of an older Jeep with the older BLD system. Notice every time the tire in the air will stop spinning because the BLD system is applying the brake to that wheel so it sends power to the opposite wheel. The new system works a lot better. http://youtu.be/Hv2DKDinfj0

RAMYOU · Feb 27, 2015

SouthTexan said:
You shouldn't have any troubles compared to what you came out of. The Ram 2500/3500 limited slip is a gear type AAM Tracrite GT that does not need rebuilding like the clutch style. It works very similar in function to the Detroit True-Trac.

New 2013 and up Ram 2500/3500 also have BLD(Brake Lock Differential) which is what Chrysler calls their electronic limited slip. What this does is use the brakes to ensure that both wheels on the same axles are spinning at the same rate acting as a limited slip for all four wheels. Before this feature, most 4x4 trucks had open front differentials meaning that only one tire will spin up front in a loss traction scenario. With this feature, it will apply the brake to the tire that is spinning which will send power to the other wheel that has traction simulating what limited slip does. It is the same system found in Jeeps and is explained in the video below.

http://youtu.be/yxHQeO-Y7GU

very good info. so my 2015 ram 2500 has both BLDS and gear type LSD? From what I understood, gear type LSD limits wheel spin by having a set ratio between the two wheels on an axle, right? That and BLDS working together sounds kinda redundant to me because both systems activate after some kind of wheel spin is detected, so what is the point of having these two side by side? is it just for added reliability? I could be just simply wrong

SouthTexan · Feb 27, 2015

RAMYOU said:
very good info. so my 2015 ram 2500 has both BLDS and gear type LSD? From what I understood, gear type LSD limits wheel spin by having a set ratio between the two wheels on an axle, right? That and BLDS working together sounds kinda redundant to me because both systems activate after some kind of wheel spin is detected, so what is the point of having these two side by side? is it just for added reliability? I could be just simply wrong

Mechanical limited slip differentials works a bit differently than BLD. The BLD system brakes the wheel that is spinning to send the power to the opposite wheel that has traction. This means it stops or slows down a wheel to send power to the other wheel. This is good for slow off roading or when one tire is in the air. Although this works a lot better than an open diff, slowing down a wheel to gain traction is not ideal in sand, gravel, or other kind of surfaces that you need momentum to get you through. Another downside is the uneven brake wear if constantly used and you can overheat your brakes if it is overused, but this is extremely rare.

With the Torsen gear style LSD found in our Ram 2500/3500s, it does not brake the wheel to send power to the other. What it does is multiplies the torque traction of the spinning wheel to send more turning force to the wheel with traction depending on the the torque bias of the unit. IIRC, I think the torque bias ratio of the Trac-Rite GT in our trucks is 3:1 which means it can send up to three times the torque to the wheel with traction without slowing down a wheel. It also responds very quickly, and starts to transfer torque before BLD can activate. This limited slip is ideal for sand, gravel or other slippery surfaces where differentiation of torque bias is needed without hindering any forward momentum. The downside to this style of LSD is when one wheel is in the air. You cannot multiply torque if there is none to multiply.

This is where the BLD kicks in and aids the Torsen style LSD. With a tire in the air the Torsen LSD is helpless, but the BLD kicks in to apply braking force it give the LSD the torque it needs to multiply and send to the other wheel. Back in the day, guys with LSD used to use their park brake in these scenarios to brake the wheel enough to send power to the other wheel which worked fairly well depending on how good you were at it. This was called the "poor mans locker". Now BLD does it for you and even better since it only applies braking force to one wheel. Seperately these two systems are good for the certain situations they are best at, but together they will make your truck damn near unstoppable since they compensate each others downfalls. They don't replace lockers, but together they are damn close to being just as capable.

Hers is a quick video on the kind of LSD we have in our trucks. Although it is the Eaton True-Trac, the AAM Trac-Rite is the same and acts the same way. http://youtu.be/lZmsY2YvVsc

RAMYOU · Feb 28, 2015

SouthTexan said:
Mechanical limited slip differentials works a bit differently than BLD. The BLD system brakes the wheel that is spinning to send the power to the opposite wheel that has traction. This means it stops or slows down a wheel to send power to the other wheel. This is good for slow off roading or when one tire is in the air. Although this works a lot better than an open diff, slowing down a wheel to gain traction is not ideal in sand, gravel, or other kind of surfaces that you need momentum to get you through. Another downside is the uneven brake wear if constantly used and you can overheat your brakes if it is overused, but this is extremely rare.

With the Torsen gear style LSD found in our Ram 2500/3500s, it does not brake the wheel to send power to the other. What it does is multiplies the torque traction of the spinning wheel to send more turning force to the wheel with traction depending on the the torque bias of the unit. IIRC, I think the torque bias ratio of the Trac-Rite GT in our trucks is 3:1 which means it can send up to three times the torque to the wheel with traction without slowing down a wheel. It also responds very quickly, and starts to transfer torque before BLD can activate. This limited slip is ideal for sand, gravel or other slippery surfaces where differentiation of torque bias is needed without hindering any forward momentum. The downside to this style of LSD is when one wheel is in the air. You cannot multiply torque if there is none to multiply.

This is where the BLD kicks in and aids the Torsen style LSD. With a tire in the air the Torsen LSD is helpless, but the BLD kicks in to apply braking force it give the LSD the torque it needs to multiply and send to the other wheel. Back in the day, guys with LSD used to use their park brake in these scenarios to brake the wheel enough to send power to the other wheel which worked fairly well depending on how good you were at it. This was called the "poor mans locker". Now BLD does it for you and even better since it only applies braking force to one wheel. Seperately these two systems are good for the certain situations they are best at, but together they will make your truck damn near unstoppable since they compensate each others downfalls. They don't replace lockers, but together they are damn close to being just as capable.

Hers is a quick video on the kind of LSD we have in our trucks. Although it is the Eaton True-Trac, the AAM Trac-Rite is the same and acts the same way. http://youtu.be/lZmsY2YvVsc

damn bro you know so much about this stuff. I was looking for this kind of information from all over the web and wasnt able to find anything as informative as this. :favorites13:

nicely done! Im sure many others will find it useful as well

loveracing1988 · Feb 28, 2015

SouthTexan said:
Mechanical limited slip differentials works a bit differently than BLD. The BLD system brakes the wheel that is spinning to send the power to the opposite wheel that has traction. This means it stops or slows down a wheel to send power to the other wheel. This is good for slow off roading or when one tire is in the air. Although this works a lot better than an open diff, slowing down a wheel to gain traction is not ideal in sand, gravel, or other kind of surfaces that you need momentum to get you through. Another downside is the uneven brake wear if constantly used and you can overheat your brakes if it is overused, but this is extremely rare.

With the Torsen gear style LSD found in our Ram 2500/3500s, it does not brake the wheel to send power to the other. What it does is multiplies the torque traction of the spinning wheel to send more turning force to the wheel with traction depending on the the torque bias of the unit. IIRC, I think the torque bias ratio of the Trac-Rite GT in our trucks is 3:1 which means it can send up to three times the torque to the wheel with traction without slowing down a wheel. It also responds very quickly, and starts to transfer torque before BLD can activate. This limited slip is ideal for sand, gravel or other slippery surfaces where differentiation of torque bias is needed without hindering any forward momentum. The downside to this style of LSD is when one wheel is in the air. You cannot multiply torque if there is none to multiply.

This is where the BLD kicks in and aids the Torsen style LSD. With a tire in the air the Torsen LSD is helpless, but the BLD kicks in to apply braking force it give the LSD the torque it needs to multiply and send to the other wheel. Back in the day, guys with LSD used to use their park brake in these scenarios to brake the wheel enough to send power to the other wheel which worked fairly well depending on how good you were at it. This was called the "poor mans locker". Now BLD does it for you and even better since it only applies braking force to one wheel. Seperately these two systems are good for the certain situations they are best at, but together they will make your truck damn near unstoppable since they compensate each others downfalls. They don't replace lockers, but together they are damn close to being just as capable.

Hers is a quick video on the kind of LSD we have in our trucks. Although it is the Eaton True-Trac, the AAM Trac-Rite is the same and acts the same way. http://youtu.be/lZmsY2YvVsc

This spring I am going to put one side of my truck up in the air and see if it moves. I know for a fact the bld doesn't work on the rear axle, I wonder if it will work in the front.

loveracing1988 · Jul 5, 2015

SouthTexan said:
You should have it unless it is only for certain trim levels, but I would think it is standards since it is a part of ESC.

It is also on page 506 of the owners manual.

"Traction Control System (TCS) – If Equipped
The TCS monitors the amount of wheel spin of each of
the driven wheels. If wheel spin is detected, brake
pressure is applied to the slipping wheel(s), and engine
power is reduced to provide enhanced acceleration and
stability. A feature of the TCS functions similarly to a
limited-slip differential and controls the wheel spin
across a driven axle. If one wheel on a driven axle is
spinning faster than the other, the system will apply the
brake of the spinning wheel. This will allow more engine
torque to be applied to the wheel that is not spinning.
This feature remains active even if TCS and ESC are in
the “Partial Off” mode. Refer to “Electronic Stability
Control (ESC)” in this section of this manual. This brake
pressure modulation transfers drive torque from slipping
to non-slipping wheels to provide optimal forward traction"

So I finally had a chance to test it again this weekend pulling into my front yard. In 2wd I have nothing, just the factory crappy lsd. I didn't try 4hi/ 4 lock but I put it in 4 low and the brake lock differential's do kick in then and work pretty good. One rear tire in the air and one front tire had almost no weight on it and it moved me up the hill with minimal effort.

Ratket · Jul 5, 2015

the biggest factor for sand/ boat ramps is going to be your tires... you will definitely want to upgrade from stock.

Boat Ramps and Sand - 4X4/LS performance

TC-Tex

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SouthTexan

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loveracing1988

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SouthTexan

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loveracing1988

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SouthTexan

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wyo2track

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Ratket

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TC-Tex

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SouthTexan

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RAMYOU

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SouthTexan

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RAMYOU

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loveracing1988

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loveracing1988

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Ratket

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