Converting back to RAM from GM....help me decide

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Rampant

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My father in law has a 2015 Chevy 2500 with the 6.2.

GM does not and never has put the 6.2 in any HD pickup. That is a performance oriented corvette-derived motor. The only '07-up GM HD choices are a 6.0 gasser or a diesel, including the 2500 Suburbans and Yukons.
 

theviking

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Overall, I really like my Ram. Looks great, rides great, decent gas mileage for its class, etc. But there are some things I do not like. As mentioned above, one big one is the transmission. Another is the traction control. It cannot be bypassed and therefore, the truck is a gutless wonder off the line. Will not even try to spin, not even on wet or muddy roads! WTF? I am going to get a programmer and see how that does. One last and fairly minor annoyance; the brakes while towing are far from confidence-inspiring.

You do have a TC off button. Regardless, a programmer is not going to resolve your off the line issue. The problem is in the stock converter. I have an Edge 2600 stall and the truck now jumps off the line. If I do any sort of brake stand in 2wd the truck will spin my 35's at will.

Custom programming will definitely help with the trans shifting though.
 

huntntruk

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GM does not and never has put the 6.2 in any HD pickup. That is a performance oriented corvette-derived motor. The only '07-up GM HD choices are a 6.0 gasser or a diesel, including the 2500 Suburbans and Yukons.

Thanks for the correction. Its a 6.0 then, my mistake.
 

Rampant

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You do have a TC off button. Regardless, a programmer is not going to resolve your off the line issue. The problem is in the stock converter. I have an Edge 2600 stall and the truck now jumps off the line. If I do any sort of brake stand in 2wd the truck will spin my 35's at will.

Custom programming will definitely help with the trans shifting though.

Yes, I am fully aware of the ESC Off button and it's supposed functions. I've read every letter of the owner's manual and service manual concerning these functions a million times. Our trucks are obviously equipped differently. Any unloaded truck with 400+ HP will spin the wheels at will in 2wd if it is unhampered by the computer systems, regardless of the stall speed. The problem is, I cannot turn mine completely off.

A 2600 stall is not a high stall speed by any means. Most RVs are at least that high. If a converter is rated for 2600 stall, the actual stall is usually around 200-300 less than that. You can check it by power-braking it. Whatever your RPMs are just before breaking the tires loose are, that's your actual stall speed. Mine is 1700-ish on my stock converter. But, it's hard to tell if that's the actual stall speed or if the fun police have already started to intervene by that point. I'm pretty sure they have.

I've pasted below the info concerning the TCS and ESC systems. Simply changing the stall converter will not negate all of this. It actually applies brakes and reduces engine power via computer control. There has to be software involvement of some sort. Maybe Moe can chime in on this? If I follow the instructions for the "Full Off- If Equipped" operation as described below, nothing happens unless I am in 4WD LOW, only then does the chime sound. Any other time, the light just comes on, regardless if I press momentarily or hold the button in. At that point, even in tow-haul mode, there is no discernible affect on the truck's willingness to spin the wheels or leave the line harder. My HSA is disabled through the UConnect as well. Obviously, my truck is not equipped with the "Full Off" function. Sweet Baby Jesus, who do I pay to get that turned off??

"Traction Control System (TCS)
This system monitors the amount of wheel spin of each of the driven wheels. If wheel spin is detected, the TCS may apply brake pressure to the spinning wheel(s) and/or reduce engine power to provide enhanced acceleration and stability. A feature of the TCS, Brake Limited Differential (BLD), functions similar to a limited slip differential and controls the wheel spin across a driven axle. If one wheel on a driven axle is spinning faster than the other, the system will apply the brake of the spinning wheel. This will allow more engine torque to be applied to the wheel that is not spinning. BLD may remain enabled even if TCS and ESC are in a reduced mode.

Electronic Stability Control (ESC)
This system enhances directional control and stability of the vehicle under various driving conditions. ESC corrects for oversteering or understeering of the vehicle by applying the brake of the appropriate wheel(s) to assist in
counteracting the oversteer or understeer condition. Engine power may also be reduced to help the vehicle maintain the desired path.
ESC uses sensors in the vehicle to determine the vehicle path intended by the driver and compares it to the actual path of the vehicle. When the actual path does not match the intended path, ESC applies the brake of the appropriate wheel to assist in counteracting the oversteer or understeer condition.
• Oversteer - when the vehicle is turning more than appropriate for the steering wheel position.
• Understeer - when the vehicle is turning less than appropriate for the steering wheel position.
The “ESC Activation/Malfunction Indicator Light” located in the instrument cluster will start to flash as soon as the ESC system becomes active. The “ESC Activation/ Malfunction Indicator Light” also flashes when the TCS is active. If the “ESC Activation/Malfunction Indicator
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Light” begins to flash during acceleration, ease up on the accelerator and apply as little throttle as possible. Be sure to adapt your speed and driving to the prevailing road conditions.
• Electronic Stability Control (ESC) cannot prevent
the natural laws of physics from acting on the 5 vehicle, nor can it increase the traction afforded by prevailing road conditions. ESC cannot prevent accidents, including those resulting from excessive speed in turns, driving on very slippery surfaces, or hydroplaning. ESC also cannot prevent accidents resulting from loss of vehicle control due to inappropriate driver input for the conditions. Only a safe, attentive, and skillful driver can prevent accidents. The capabilities of an ESC equipped vehicle
(Continued)
WARNING!

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WARNING! (Continued)
must never be exploited in a reckless or dangerous manner which could jeopardize the user’s safety or the safety of others.
• Vehicle modifications, or failure to properly maintain your vehicle, may change the handling characteristics of your vehicle, and may negatively affect the performance of the ESC system. Changes to the steering system, suspension, braking system, tire type and size or wheel size may adversely affect ESC performance. Improperly inflated and un- evenly worn tires may also degrade ESC performance. Any vehicle modification or poor vehicle maintenance that reduces the effectiveness of the ESC system can increase the risk of loss of vehicle control, vehicle rollover, personal injury and death.
ESC Operating Modes
NOTE: Depending upon model and mode of operation,
the ESC system may have multiple operating modes.
ESC On
This is the normal operating mode for the ESC. When- ever the vehicle is started, the ESC system will be in this mode. This mode should be used for most driving conditions. Alternate ESC modes should only be used for specific reasons as noted in the following paragraphs.
Partial Off
The “Partial Off” mode is intended for times when a more spirited driving experience is desired. This mode may modify TCS and ESC thresholds for activation, which allows for more wheel spin than normally al- lowed. This mode may be useful if the vehicle becomes stuck.

To enter the “Partial Off” mode, momentarily push the “ESC Off” switch and the “ESC Off Indicator Light” will illuminate. To turn the ESC on again, momentarily push the “ESC Off” switch and the “ESC Off Indicator Light” will turn off.
NOTE: For vehicles with multiple partial ESC modes a momentary button push will toggle the ESC mode. Multiple momentary button pushed may be required to return to ESC On.
NOTE:
• When in “Partial Off” mode, the TCS functionality of ESC, (except for the limited slip feature described in the TCS section), has been disabled and the “ESC Off Indicator Light” will be illuminated. When in “Partial Off” mode, the engine power reduction feature of TCS is disabled, and the enhanced vehicle stability offered by the ESC system is reduced.
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• Trailer Sway control (TSC) is disabled when the ESC system is in the “Partial Off” mode.
Full Off – If Equipped
This mode is intended for off-highway or off-road use only and should not be used on any public roadways. In this mode, TCS and ESC features are turned OFF. To enter
the “Full Off” mode, push and hold the “ESC Off” switch 5 for five seconds while the vehicle is stopped with the engine running. After five seconds, a chime will sound,
the “ESC Off Indicator Light” will illuminate, and the “ESC OFF” message will display in the Electronic Vehicle Information Center (EVIC). To turn ESC ON again, momentarily push the “ESC Off” switch.
NOTE: System may switch from ESC Full Off to Partial mode when vehicle exceeds a predetermined speed. When the vehicle speed slows below the predetermined speed the system will return to ESC Full Off.

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ESC modes may also be affected by drive modes – if equipped.
WARNING!
• In the ESC “Full Off” mode, the engine torque reduction and stability features are disabled. Therefore, enhanced vehicle stability offered by the ESC system is unavailable. In an emergency evasive maneuver, the ESC system will not engage to assist in maintaining stability. “ESC Off” mode is intended for off-highway or off-road use only.
ESC Activation/Malfunction Indicator Light and ESC OFF Indicator Light
The “ESC Activation/Malfunction Indicator Light” in the instrument cluster will come on when the ignition switch is turned to the ON
position. It should go out with the engine running. If the “ESC Activation/Malfunction Indicator Light” comes on continuously with the engine running, a malfunction has been detected in the ESC system. If this light remains on after several ignition cycles, and the vehicle has been driven several miles (kilometers) at speeds greater than 30 mph (48 km/h), see your authorized dealer as soon as possible to have the problem diagnosed and corrected.
The “ESC Activation/Malfunction Indicator Light” (located in the instrument cluster) starts to flash as soon as the tires lose traction and the ESC system becomes active. The “ESC Activation/Malfunction Indicator Light” also flashes when TCS is active. If the “ESC Activation/ Malfunction Indicator Light” begins to flash during acceleration, ease up on the accelerator and apply as little throttle as possible. Be sure to adapt your speed and driving to the prevailing road conditions.
 

theviking

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Just trying to help you out here. I'm aware that 2600 stall speed is not high, but with my towing it's what I was recommended by Moe. Like I said, the difference is night and day from the stock converter. I have also run tunes with the TC fully defeated (dash looks like a Christmas tree with all the warning lights:)). It did help a little from a standing start, but the truck would still not launch hard. The TM isn't interfering as much as you think. Even with TC active the truck will now launch hard on the new converter.

Again, I'm not saying that the tune doesn't help with TM. I am saying that it's not the main problem.
 

Rampant

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Just trying to help you out here. I'm aware that 2600 stall speed is not high, but with my towing it's what I was recommended by Moe. Like I said, the difference is night and day from the stock converter. I have also run tunes with the TC fully defeated (dash looks like a Christmas tree with all the warning lights:)). It did help a little from a standing start, but the truck would still not launch hard. The TM isn't interfering as much as you think. Even with TC active the truck will now launch hard on the new converter.

Again, I'm not saying that the tune doesn't help with TM. I am saying that it's not the main problem.

I appreciate you trying to help. I see two differences in our trucks, according to the list you have on yours. Mine is a 2016 and has 3.73 gears. The programming has to be different with that gear set. Maybe the model year and the gear set have different programming thresholds. Who knows? I'd pay a fair amount just to have access to that info! The service manual has a lot of info, but is geared more toward troubleshooting codes and conditions.

I have yet to talk to a dealer since I've had the truck. I find that I usually know more about whatever it is that I'm presenting them with by the time I take it to them in cases like this and they are largely of no help, since it's not really a "fault". They have no dog in that race. But who knows, maybe they can turn some of the junk off with their magical laptop. I guess it doesn't hurt to ask.

I have to disagree with you on the thought that the fun police are not intervening as much as I think they are. I have a '67 Chevy short bed 4x4 with 3.73s. Just put a 300hp crate motor in it with a 2300 stall. Carbureted. Zero computers. Nothing special, just reliable and runs great. I can roast the **** out of the 33's at anything under 15 mph. No brakes needed. Granted, it's not as heavy as the Ram, but it's not light either and has at least 100 fewer hp.

It just makes no sense that this "Big Hemi" is so handicapped by all the computer nonsense. I'm not against modifying anything but I also don't believe I should have to just to make it act like a civilized vehicle. Right now, it acts like my kid's power wheels mustang with the governor on it. It makes me feel disconnected, as if I'm just along for the ride and it's doing everything else on auto pilot. The stability systems are completely invasive. If I wanted that, I would have put the $60k toward a Tesla.

My '05 Ram with the 5.7 and '00 Dakota R/T with the 5.9 had gobs of power and torque and were actually fun to drive. It's a shame that Ram did this to the new generation of pickups. I'll see how it acts in the snow this winter; if it's anything less than phenomenal, it'll be up for sale in the spring.
 

Slick61

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Lovin my '16 Ram 2500 ccsb 6.4L 4x4 so far... and yes, I've got the 4.10s... seems everything my dealer had in stock was 4.10 equipped... go figure. On the test drive, I was immediately aware of the improved takeoff with the 4.10s. I came out of a Super Duty V10 4x4 supercab. Ah, the hemi tick... if you drive with the windows down... it's noticeable, & you'll probably be unhappy. It's probably my least favorite thing about the truck... sounds like leaky exhaust manifolds. Otherwise, it's a non-issue... tomb-like quiet inside. Yea, the transmission programming could be better... but it seems they're all tuned for maximum fuel efficiency these days.

Like you, I considered a half-ton... but preferred the look & feel of a Heavy Duty, & found that I could get a much better deal on a 2500. I've got a Tradesman... tho it's optioned-up pretty close to a SLT.

I was a committed Ford fanboi, but so far, I'm really liking the Ram.

RamRev1.jpg
 

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