Pedal Commander

jaflowers · Apr 26, 2017

Thought I'd post up a quick review of this little gadget.

Bought one of these after reading about them in another thread. Shipping was fast and it was boxed up very nicely. Installation was just about as easy as you could ever want.....unplug the connector on the gas pedal, plug in the PC to that port and plug the other connector into the OEM wiring harness. Two minutes tops, if you take your time.

Set mine for the "Sport" setting and gave it a +1. The response from any throttle input is GREAT now. Now the truck "feels" like it has a big V8 under the hood. Probably due to the increased throttle input, the truck seems like it shifts gears correctly now too allowing for easier driving in traffic. Overall I think this thing was worth the purchase, although I still think $300 is a bit much for what it is. Since my truck is a 2015, meaning I'd have to swap the ECU to tune it, I think for my purposes this thing fit the bill.

Dmopar74 · Apr 26, 2017

Is your truck a 6.4?

BossHogg · Apr 26, 2017

jaflowers said:
Installation was just about as easy as you could ever want.....

Where did you mount the control box? Pictures would be nice

jaflowers · Apr 26, 2017

To answer both questions above:

1) Yes, my truck is a 6.4 with the 3.73 gears so it needed the extra oompfff.

2) Hadn't mounted the little box yet, I'm pretty sure I'm going to put it on the slanted plastic under the ignition key. No pics yet but I can post something once I mount it. For the time being I've dropped the little box in the center console cup holder, the cable is that long.

SouthTexan · Apr 26, 2017

I had something similar before my custom tune, but it was made by BD. They do make a huge difference in how the truck feels and responds to your inputs.

monteholic · Apr 26, 2017

mine should be here Friday, I'll play with it this weekend and see how it goes

Moab_Rockstar · Apr 27, 2017

All this thing does is add a positive offset to your pedal input. You can do the same thing for free by just tipping in more.

RAM-pagingMN · Apr 27, 2017

i wonder how this works with a custom hemifever tune like i have? i have response set higher by Sean, but still feels sluggish?

SouthTexan · Apr 27, 2017

Moab_Rockstar said:
All this thing does is add a positive offset to your pedal input. You can do the same thing for free by just tipping in more.

Yes and no. While you can just tip in more for free, the increased ramp up speed that products like these alter is not something you do with just tipping in more. Most factory driver by wire systems have a slow ramp up meaning that even if you put the pedal to the flow does not mean you will get full power the instant the pedal is all the way down. The power will ramp up gradually making the vehicle feel less responsive and less fun to drive.

Products like these make the pedal feel like the old cable driven throttle pedals that responded to your inputs instantly making the vehicle more fun to drive even if no power is added. Basically you are making the vehicle more custom to your preferences just like custom tuning does. For some it is worth the money having a vehicle drive to their preferences and for others it may not.

I can tell you that once you have driven a custom tuned vehicle that is has the shift points, pedal input, and other things tuned to your preferences, then you would probably never want to go back to driving a generic factory or canned tuned truck again.

Moab_Rockstar · Apr 27, 2017

SouthTexan said:
Yes and no. While you can just tip in more for free, the increased ramp up speed that products like these alter is not something you do with just tipping in more. Most factory driver by wire systems have a slow ramp up meaning that even if you put the pedal to the flow does not mean you will get full power the instant the pedal is all the way down. The power will ramp up gradually making the vehicle feel less responsive and less fun to drive.

That's not how the pedal ramp works. The pedal ramp is controlled by the PCM, which takes the voltage signal from the pedal. The voltage from the pedal is directly wired to the PCM. The pedal voltage is based only on the pedal position, nothing else. All this box can possibly do is alter the voltage signal going to the PCM. I work on the pedal diagnostics for other programs using the same pedal and PCM, so I do have an idea of how the pedal actually works.

SouthTexan · Apr 27, 2017

Moab_Rockstar said:
That's not how the pedal ramp works. The pedal ramp is controlled by the PCM, which takes the voltage signal from the pedal. The voltage from the pedal is directly wired to the PCM. The pedal voltage is based only on the pedal position, nothing else. All this box can possibly do is alter the voltage signal going to the PCM. I work on the pedal diagnostics for other programs using the same pedal and PCM, so I do have an idea of how the pedal actually works.

If that is not how it works then why did my throttle input data logs show an almost instant ramp up on engine load with the BD Throttle Sensitivity Booster and an almost three times slower ramp up in stock form. If I can find one of my old EDGE data log files when I get home I can show you.

Also.....

At 6:25
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jaflowers · Apr 27, 2017

Have to agree with SouthTexan on this. The fact that if I floor it from a stop, in factory form, there "seems" to be a 1-2 second lag before the truck get's up and goes vs. using the PC there is virtually no lag at all from any pedal input whether from a stop or while moving pretty much proves his point.

Fact, this little gadget really does improve the throttle response (radically) and how quickly the truck shifts in and out of gears making driving it a MUCH improved experience. IMO

Moab_Rockstar · Apr 27, 2017

You can choose to believe whatever BS you want, but the fact of the matter is that the pedal is nothing more than a rheostat sending a voltage to the PCM. The ramp rate of the voltage is basically dependent on foot of the driver. The PCM during normal operation is normally calibrated to just take whatever is received. Ramping is usually done during a limphome fault. The pedal voltage is converted to a torque request, and assuming there are no lower requests being sent (like from ESC), then the engine will deliver the torque requested. That's how the pedal works in the PCM. There's no amount of magic that will make it ramp faster in the software by just changing the input.

So if this device is applying pedal faster than you actually are, that is why the engine responds accordingly. You put in 10% pedal, the device sends teh PCM 20, 30, whatever % pedal. You can call it whatever you want, but it's still $300 of snake oil for your pedal.

SETEX 6.4 · Apr 27, 2017

Both of your explanations sound good. Either way doesn't matter to me. I would love to get the old school drive by cable feel.
I think I will just go with Diablo with Hemifever sense I have a 2014 and don't have to worry about netting with my PCM.

Really though no need to get in a ******* match about who's explanation of function is correct. I think it's a cool gadget that some may like and some may not like.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

BossHogg · Apr 27, 2017

It has been a few years since I was in Powertrain but looking at the BD videos showing what the throttle boost does, they used vehicles from all manufacturers and had similar responses from the vehicles once equipped.

The throttle pedal proves two reference signals to the PCM indicating throttle pedal position, one signal goes from zero volts to five volts, the other from five volts to zero volts.

The PCM must respond by how fast the reference signal changes from the throttle pedal. Despite other observations, if I worked my throttle pedal fast and aggressively, on either the Cummins or the Hemi, the engine responds aggressively and quickly. If I drive casually and more the normal, the engine response is laid back, probably a design to save fuel by removing jackrabbit starts.

I think the throttle boosters simply makes the throttle pedal change look faster by changing the reference signal ramp faster and increases the signal making it look like the throttle was moved farther than it really was. Easy to prove.

07MegaCabRam · Apr 27, 2017

When I had my 2007 Dodge Ram Megacab with the Hemi, I had a Superchips and programmed the shift schedule. It somewhat did the same thing as here.

The truck woke up. Felt like I had 200 more horsepower than what it really had. But made the truck more enjoyable to drive.

Moab_Rockstar · Apr 27, 2017

If you want to know the math, here it is:

Ram pedal operates at 0-4V approximately
Without going into the actual pedal sensor details, sensor 1 operates at 0-4volts, and is the driver pedal request under normal operation.

For the ramp rate, the pedal is limited to .25V increments for the first .1V of pedal travel. After that, it is hardcoded to a .5V increment per loop. The pedal position is incremented every 10ms.

Simplified to ignore the .25V increment:
4V / .5V x 10ms = 80ms to go from 0 to full pedal at the fastest possible rate.

I guess if you want to always be asking for more pedal than you really are, that's up to you. You are reducing the safety of the vehicle at the same time, and probably adding to the wear and tear. I'd rather spend my money on a tuner and make the changes that will actually improve the engine performance, not just change the perception of it.

lharrell79 · Apr 27, 2017

Is it possible that the Pedal Commander is sending a voltage to the PCM, that is higher than the stock pedal can give? If the stock pedal has a voltage signal of 0 to 5 volts, is it possible the Pedal Commander is sending more? Thus, making the throttle body open faster?

The videos appear to be promotional videos, so I take their info with a grain of salt. However, the little gadget they're using to demonstrate show the stock pedal to truly have a slow response. When the demonstrator slams the pedal down, the little red line responds slowly. Are the graphics not accurate?

Moab_Rockstar · Apr 27, 2017

lharrell79 said:
Is it possible that the Pedal Commander is sending a voltage to the PCM, that is higher than the stock pedal can give? If the stock pedal has a voltage signal of 0 to 5 volts, is it possible the Pedal Commander is sending more? Thus, making the throttle body open faster?

The videos appear to be promotional videos, so I take their info with a grain of salt. However, the little gadget they're using to demonstrate show the stock pedal to truly have a slow response. When the demonstrator slams the pedal down, the little red line responds slowly. Are the graphics not accurate?

No, maximum pedal is limited to 4V in the PCM. There are a number of limitations that won't let it go higher.

Their graphics are more than likely complete fabrications, or some value that isn't really representative of what's actually happening. Just because something is in an ad doesn't mean it's true. Otherwise, I'd have gotten the correct lotto numbers all those times from the psychic network, and I could have retired years ago.

lharrell79 · Apr 27, 2017

Moab_Rockstar said:
No, maximum pedal is limited to 4V in the PCM. There are a number of limitations that won't let it go higher.

Their graphics are more than likely complete fabrications, or some value that isn't really representative of what's actually happening. Just because something is in an ad doesn't mean it's true. Otherwise, I'd have gotten the correct lotto numbers all those times from the psychic network, and I could have retired years ago.

I'm trying to understand how the throttle by wire works. On my old Jeep, it was throttle by cable. If I mashed the throttle, it was instant response. With my truck, it is not. If I mash the throttle, there is a delay, and a slow ramp up in throttle. Why does this happen on my truck, and not on my old Jeep?

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