Raced a 16 Silverado 2500hd-6.0...LOST

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SouthTexan

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The 45RFE that came out in I believe the 99 Grand Cherokee 4.7.
Was always capable of being a 6 speed, all the planetaries were there. Same basic design, Beefed up, larger case, More clutch packs,heavier converter, larger components in the 66/68 RFE. So not ludicrous. How many have you had apart?
What does working for Cummins have to do with anything?
Sorry your getting but hurt. Because someone disagrees with you.

The same can be said about the 8HP since it is just a larger version with more gears of the 5 HP that was introduced in 1992. However, it is just silly to say either has been around that long just because previous versions were.

I helped take apart two 68RFE's that had their overdrives clutches shot and one of them had the low/reverse sprag grenade as well.

And no, no "butt" hurt here. I am just disagreeing with you from personal and professional experiance about the matter.
 

yoda

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Fair enough, I have no idea about the 5HP have never had one apart so I can't say if it is or isn't the same design as the 8HP but I doubt it, to go from 5 to 8 speeds would require another planetary and probably two more clutch packs
I guess I am looking at it from a techs perspective, I learned how to overhaul the 45RFE first. I didn't have to learn anything new to overhaul a 68RFE.
 
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Danno

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loveracing1988

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Just because the ratings are acceptable doesn't mean it's built for HD duty. Those are passenger vehicle transmissions not light commercial.

Try this, Trucks | LCV | 8-Speed Automatic Transmission - ZF Friedrichshafen AG
That is up to people way smarter than you to decide. I was more posting the picture because you posted the ratings for the wrong transmission and claimed it would never work. In all reality the 8hp90 capacity is way above what the 6.4 puts out, it would serve HD duty just fine.

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Danno

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That is up to people way smarter than you to decide. I was more posting the picture because you posted the ratings for the wrong transmission and claimed it would never work. In all reality the 8hp90 capacity is way above what the 6.4 puts out, it would serve HD duty just fine.

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8HP90 is a passenger vehicle transmission, aka car.. Is the manufacture (ZF and Ram) the right people to decide? Maybe that's why theres not a ZF in the HD. I posted the right rating for the 8HP70L, it as also backed by providing the manufactures specs on their website.

Heres the ZF link for passenger 8HP transmissions.

Cars | 8-Speed Automatic Transmission - ZF Friedrichshafen AG
 
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Danno

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Maybe focus on how a far less powerful, outdated engine with a 6 speed out performed a new designed, more powerful/capable (on paper) 6.4. That's the question, how, why???
 

loveracing1988

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Is the manufacture (ZF and Ram) the right people to decide? Maybe that's why theres not a ZF in the HD. I posted the right rating for the 8HP70L, it as also backed by providing the manufactures specs on their website.

Heres the ZF link for passenger 8HP transmissions.

Cars | 8-Speed Automatic Transmission - ZF Friedrichshafen AG
Where does it show the specs? The link you give has the generic specs for the entire series. Not that it matters much because it is all in the name. The 8hp70, 8hp70, and 8hp90 all have the same name designation for a reason, add a zero onto the end of the name and you have its torque capacity in NM, hence 450nm 700nm and 900nm.

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loveracing1988

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Maybe focus on how a far less powerful, outdated engine with a 6 speed out performed a new designed, more powerful/capable (on paper) 6.4. That's the question, how, why???
It was answered further up, it is crippled by the trans gearing, can we all pitch in and buy you a truck of your choice that you won't complain about? I'm sure that vehicle isn't out there but we can always try...

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smiley

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Fair enough, I have no idea about the 5HP have never had one apart so I can't say if it is or isn't the same design as the 8HP but I doubt it, to go from 5 to 8 speeds would require another planetary and probably two more clutch packs

I guess I am looking at it from a techs perspective, I learned how to overhaul the 45RFE first. I didn't have to learn anything new to overhaul a 68RFE.



Isn't that the concern too small?
 
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yoda

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Isn't that the concern. The 45RFE was the one that made Ram suffer from a tranny reputation standpoint wasn't it?

Not in my experience, the RH/RE previous generation transmissions that had the problems. Used in the 5.2, 5.9 up to 2002 in the gas engines. Up to 2006 in the Cummins.
It was based on the old 727 trans with an overdrive bolted onto the back.

45RFE was a whole new design, 66RFE and 68RFE are based off the 45RFE design. Far far less problems, at least what I see at the dealer

We are also a Ford dealer, I think Rams probably have less trans issues than the Fords, hard to say for sure. That was not the case with the RE/RH trans
 
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SouthTexan

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Notice the "light commercial vehicles"


That is European terminology for trucks that also would fit into the same class of trucks as the Ram 2500 and 3500. For example, the "light commercial vehicle" dual rear wheel Iveco Daily Euro 6 has an 8HP trans option and is rated at a GVW of 7.2 tonnes (16,000 lbs). That would be a Ram 3500 DRW here so yes the 8HP is already in truck severe duty applications.

Daily Euro 6 - UK

Also, just because the Ram 2500 and 3500 have "Heavy Duty" on the badge does not mean they are. They are actually light duty vehicles per their GVWR but are on the "heavy duty" end of the light duty class of vehicles which is class 2b and 3. Class 4, 5, and 6 are medium duty vehicles while classes 7 and 8 are heavy duty.
 

drittal

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I've read it somewhere that the reason the hellcat trans isn't in the HD line up is because the parking prawl isn't strong enough and upgrading it would involve designing an all new case for the transmission.


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yoda

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Isn't that the concern too small?

I said I didn't have to learn anything new, the components look the same. But they are significantly larger from the 45RFE to the 68RFE.
 

yoda

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I've read it somewhere that the reason the hellcat trans isn't in the HD line up is because the parking prawl isn't strong enough and upgrading it would involve designing an all new case for the transmission.


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I think I read that also.
 

smiley

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I edited my post once I went and looked up on google. I couldn't recall the name of the transmission in the 2nd gen Ram automatics.
 

Danno

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That is European terminology for trucks that also would fit into the same class of trucks as the Ram 2500 and 3500. For example, the "light commercial vehicle" dual rear wheel Iveco Daily Euro 6 has an 8HP trans option and is rated at a GVW of 7.2 tonnes (16,000 lbs). That would be a Ram 3500 DRW here so yes the 8HP is already in truck severe duty applications.

Daily Euro 6 - UK

Also, just because the Ram 2500 and 3500 have "Heavy Duty" on the badge does not mean they are. They are actually light duty vehicles per their GVWR but are on the "heavy duty" end of the light duty class of vehicles which is class 2b and 3. Class 4, 5, and 6 are medium duty vehicles while classes 7 and 8 are heavy duty.

:roflsquared:

If your referring to the Iveco HiMatic transmission, the largest engine they mount to it puts out 346 ft lbs (470 nm). Clutches can't handle the torque of "severe" HD engines. So is it the Euro Daily the same, no. Not unless you want a 3.6 gas or 3.0 diesel in a 3500.
 

SouthTexan

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:roflsquared:

If your referring to the Iveco HiMatic transmission, the largest engine they mount to it puts out 346 ft lbs (470 nm). Clutches can't handle the torque of "severe" HD engines. So is it the Euro Daily the same, no. Not unless you want a 3.6 gas or 3.0 diesel in a 3500.

:idiot:

The Iveco Daily uses the 8HP70 which is rated to handle 561 lb-ft in diesel. The 8HP that we are talking about is the 8HP90 which is rated to handle 890 lb-ft. Loveracing already proved you wrong that the 8HP90(and even the 8HP70) is rated to handle way more than the 6.4L puts out and I already proved that the 8HP70(aka HiMatic) is already used in heavy hauling and towing applications.


So please show us this proof backing up your theories where ZF says that the 8HP90 cannot handle the behind behind a Ram 6.4L in a truck duty cycle because you have shown nothing backing it up so far besides your own hearsay.
 

Danno

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:idiot:

The Iveco Daily uses the 8HP70 which is rated to handle 561 lb-ft in diesel. The 8HP that we are talking about is the 8HP90 which is rated to handle 890 lb-ft. Loveracing already proved you wrong that the 8HP90(and even the 8HP70) is rated to handle way more than the 6.4L puts out and I already proved that the 8HP70(aka HiMatic) is already used in heavy hauling and towing applications.


So please show us this proof backing up your theories where ZF says that the 8HP90 cannot handle the behind behind a Ram 6.4L in a truck duty cycle because you have shown nothing backing it up so far besides your own hearsay.

There are different models of the 8HP70, like the L that is a commercial transmission. Problem is it still doesn't have a PTO even in the commercial application. Its easy to prove the 8HP can't handle commercial truck application in the 6.4 and 6.7 torque rating. Find one in a commercial truck with that engine rating. :roflsquared:
 

SouthTexan

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There are different models of the 8HP70, like the L that is a commercial transmission. Problem is it still doesn't have a PTO even in the commercial application. Its easy to prove the 8HP can't handle commercial truck application in the 6.4 and 6.7 torque rating. Find one in a commercial truck with that engine rating. :roflsquared:

The current transmission in the 2500 and 3500 pickups with a 6.4L that we are talking about does not have a PTO either so.....

We are not talking about the 8HP70 being in the Ram 2500/3500 6.4L. We are talking about the higher rated 8HP90(which we stated multiple times) that is rated at over 800 lb-ft which which is well over the torque output of the 6.4L. We are also not talking about it being mated to the Cummins either and are only talking about it being with the 6.4L.

You really haven't shown any shread of prrof to back up your "the 8HP90 clutches can't handle the 6.4L in a truck" theory. If it is so easy to prove your theory that the 8HP90 cannot handle the Ram 6.4L, then show us the data. We want to see it. So far, all the data posted says otherwise. :idiot:

Just because the new 8HP90 isn't currently used in any commercial truck with over 400 lb-ft yet, does not mean it cannot handle it. Although the weaker 8HP70 is used 400+ lb-ft 5.7L Hemi and Ecodiesel trucks which are used as commercial trucks with 10k+ tow ratings. From what has been posted, there are no doubts that the beefier and higher rated 8HP90 can handle the 429 lb-ft of the 6.4L in the Ram 2500/3500 and its ratings.
 

theviking

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There are different models of the 8HP70, like the L that is a commercial transmission. Problem is it still doesn't have a PTO even in the commercial application. Its easy to prove the 8HP can't handle commercial truck application in the 6.4 and 6.7 torque rating. Find one in a commercial truck with that engine rating. :roflsquared:

For someone who constantly tries to come across as a subject matter expert, it's laughable how much of what you say is just complete BS. Feel free to provide some actual ratings and specifications to back up your claims.
 
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