Those who've traded

loveracing1988 · Oct 15, 2017

wyo2track said:
I'd like a CTD for 6 months. The other 6 months the 6.4 is wonderful. Cruising the backroads off the beaten path, the 6.4's lighter feeling steering over the CTD really shines, uses fuel, but is much more nimble.

I've found the longer & steadier the pull, the better the towing mileage. This past spring we took a 1465 mile round trip to Lake Powell and back pulling our 6000# TT all loaded up. Hand calc'd 9.3 for the trip keeping speeds between 65-70. Went from 7200' to 3700' and back including all the mountainous terrain in between. So I'd say your observation towing the rental are right in there.

Now, pulling my snowmachine trailer with a 28" tall deck, front unloading ramps upright, loaded with my Polaris Ranger with half front and full rear glass, load is 3000# at most, is like pulling a frikkin' steel parachute!! The 6.4 will pull it at whatever speed, but the drag makes it work! 7-8 mpg is the best I can expect when driving 65. When I have a headwind, I expect 5-6 pulling this setup. Its so light, but there I so much air resistance. I pulled this same setup with a 2013 CTD and managed 10.5 mpg. So, my point is, if I was going to be primarily pulling a 5th wheel with a lot of air resistance, CTD all the way!

I definitely hear you about the wind resistance. My dad has a 7x4 slight v-nose enclosed trailer. Empty it weights 2300 pounds, I get around 9.5 to 10 pulling it, which is the same as when I pulled a 8800 pound mini excavator.

The comparison to a 2013 ctd is good but not very impressive. I figured it would be better honestly. Maybe I'm just expecting too much, I know you can't really put a number to just how much better it probably pulled the trailer but I would still expect a little bit better.

SouthTexan · Oct 15, 2017

MADDOG said:
I modded my 6.4L with intake, exhaust, tuner and custom tune and it did wake up that truck.

I added about $3k to the price difference between the 6.4L and CTD by doing intake, delete, exhaust, programmer, EGR and DEF deletes on the CTD. Now, there is no way my 6.4L could even come close to the snappier performance of my CTD. Of course, all I had to do is spend money.

To the OP, I didn't trade my 6.4L in on the CTD. It was totaled due to the actions of an inattentive driver and I took the opportunity to purchase an upgrade.

I will add to this. I spent a little under $2,000 in parts(did the labor myself) on the same things you did and yes it makes the truck a totally different animal than stock. However, I don't see it as money spent.

I have kept track of my mileage from day one (for tax reasons) and went from averaging 14.5 mpg stock to 17.5 mpg deleted. Doing the math with diesel being about $2.50 per gallon, that means it will pay for itself in 65k miles or in about two and a half years from the time I deleted it. Of course this does not include any money that I would have spend on emissions maintenance like the EGR cleaning at 65k or the DPF cleaning at 150k.

After that, it is all money in my pocket and I do plan on keeping this truck to at least 200k if not more.

loveracing1988 · Oct 15, 2017

SouthTexan said:
I will add to this. I spent a little under $2,000 in parts(did the labor myself) on the same things you did and yes it makes the truck a totally different animal than stock. However, I don't see it as money spent.

I have kept track of my mileage from day one (for tax reasons) and went from averaging 14.5 mpg stock to 17.5 mpg deleted. Doing the math with diesel being about $2.50 per gallon, that means it will pay for itself in 65k miles or in about two and a half years from the time I deleted it. Of course this does not include any money that I would have spend on emissions maintenance like the EGR cleaning at 65k or the DPF cleaning at 150k.

After that, it is all money in my pocket and I do plan on keeping this truck to at least 200k if not more.

Weren't you all pro emissions on the def trucks?

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Iron Outlaw · Oct 15, 2017

I worked for a guy for years pulling a dump trailer and 18 foot cargo trailer. His 09 6.7 Cummins was getting 12 towing while my 6.4 got 10. Empty it was same thing, he usually got about 2 more mpg than me. It was deleted and tuned and was unbelievably strong though.

loveracing1988 · Oct 15, 2017

Iron Outlaw said:
I worked for a guy for years pulling a dump trailer and 18 foot cargo trailer. His 09 6.7 Cummins was getting 12 towing while my 6.4 got 10. Empty it was same thing, he usually got about 2 more mpg than me. It was deleted and tuned and was unbelievably strong though.

That's odd that it would only be 2 mpg better deleted.

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MN-Ram · Oct 15, 2017

Those early generations of the 6.7 Cummins (2007.5 - 2010) were really bad on fuel economy from what I remember.

loveracing1988 · Oct 15, 2017

MN-Ram said:
Those early generations of the 6.7 Cummins (2007.5 - 2010) were really bad on fuel economy from what I remember.

Oh they were, all the way up to 2012, but deleting those trucks should net a big gain in fuel economy.

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Pricejh · Oct 15, 2017

MN-Ram said:
Those early generations of the 6.7 Cummins (2007.5 - 2010) were really bad on fuel economy from what I remember.

Don’t know about the pre-2010. My 2015 gets close to 20 highway without trailer. 10 to 12 pulling almost 9000#.

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SouthTexan · Oct 15, 2017

loveracing1988 said:
Weren't you all pro emissions on the def trucks?

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I was pro SCR/DEF versus EGR. Many people believed that the addition of DEF is a bad thing, but it was actually a good thing if it got rid of the EGR since that is the cause of all the emission issues. Unfortunately, the EGR-free Cummins engines being built overseas will probably not hit out shores anytime soon.

Ratket · Oct 15, 2017

Some one mentioned the notorious ford 6.4 ... I have two of these in my fleet as bucket trucks... ******** night mare. The motors work but only to a specific set of driving conditions. The only reason the 07 we have hasn’t gotten a new motor in it is when it says clean the driver gets on the hwy and cleans it until it is done. Unfortunately this kills his work production but hey he gets paid by the hour and it makes the motor last. Now our other one has 60k miles on it and is on its 5th motor .. all have been Warrantied by ford. But it’s still a pain in the ass. I had to drive one of our newer 6.7 power strokes last night and the damn thing wouldn’t even pull 70 up the grade.. I was a little disappointed with it.

Skrap · Oct 16, 2017

mtofell said:
I test drove the Cummins and my Hemi back to back in 2014 and I opted for the Hemi due to snappier performance (and about 6K less $$, of course )

Also, I see the whole 2500 v 3500 debate creeping into this thread. It's THE SAME TRUCK aside from the rear suspension. Come on guys... give this argument a rest already. There are 100+ threads in the last year on this EXACT subject. OP is NOT asking about it. OP has been on this board for all 100+ posts and arguments. Let it go!!!!!!

Don't care that he didn't ask about it and that there a 100 other threads about the 2500/3500 debate. It's a fact that the OP was asking about the diesel to better ease of towing a travel trailer they may get in the future. OP also mentioned that they could possibly trade up to a 5er in the future. As with most people on the RV forums, they continually tend to go larger with each subsequent purchase. I'd say there are far more 5ers on the market that would be better pulled by a 3500 over a 2500. So for me to bring up this point is more than revelant. Now, the OP opined that a 2500 will work for any 5er he wants so the issues is settled.

It has already proved itself on this forum alone that there have been members who bought a 2500 6.4 and ended up with or should have ended up with a 3500 Diesel.

Pricejh · Oct 16, 2017

Many would be better off with a 6.7l 2500.

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SouthTexan · Oct 16, 2017

Skrap said:
Don't care that he didn't ask about it and that there a 100 other threads about the 2500/3500 debate. It's a fact that the OP was asking about the diesel to better ease of towing a travel trailer they may get in the future. OP also mentioned that they could possibly trade up to a 5er in the future. As with most people on the RV forums, they continually tend to go larger with each subsequent purchase. I'd say there are far more 5ers on the market that would be better pulled by a 3500 over a 2500. So for me to bring up this point is more than revelant. Now, the OP opined that a 2500 will work for any 5er he wants so the issues is settled.

It has already proved itself on this forum alone that there have been members who bought a 2500 6.4 and ended up with or should have ended up with a 3500 Diesel.

That is because many people in those forums are old geezers and back in their day there were big differences between a 2500 and 3500. Back then, the frame, axles, and suspension were different. Today, the only thing different is the rear suspension which is not too far off in ratings between the two. More and more younger guys at the RV parks that I frequent are starting to realize this and are just adding air bags to the 2500's "if" they need them. A few years of not having to pay double the registration fee's for a 3500 will pay for the air bags. Seeing that I pull a 14k 5th wheel and had over 2,500 lbs of feed/protein in the back and it still sat level with no uneasy bounce or lose of stability, I doubt air bags will be needed for most unless they decide to level their truck.

But I understand. My old man is the same way and will not buy a 2500 diesel no matter what. Regardless if my 2500 has higher ratings than his 03 F350 in every single way(but the payload) and has much bigger brakes, stronger frame, higher rated suspension, and axles he still thinks it is safer to pull with his F350 just because it has a 3 on the badge instead of a 2. Regardless if the 10k trailer he tows is well within a diesel 2500 ratings he still thinks that only a 3500 should be towing that kind of weight because that s the only kind of truck that did back in his day. Change does not come easy for him.

MN-Ram · Oct 17, 2017

SouthTexan said:
That is because many people in those forums are old geezers and back in their day there were big differences between a 2500 and 3500. Back then, the frame, axles, and suspension were different. Today, the only thing different is the rear suspension which is not too far off in ratings between the two. More and more younger guys at the RV parks that I frequent are starting to realize this and are just adding air bags to the 2500's "if" they need them. A few years of not having to pay double the registration fee's for a 3500 will pay for the air bags. Seeing that I pull a 14k 5th wheel and had over 2,500 lbs of feed/protein in the back and it still sat level with no uneasy bounce or lose of stability, I doubt air bags will be needed for most unless they decide to level their truck.

But I understand. My old man is the same way and will not buy a 2500 diesel no matter what. Regardless if my 2500 has higher ratings than his 03 F350 in every single way(but the payload) and has much bigger brakes, stronger frame, higher rated suspension, and axles he still thinks it is safer to pull with his F350 just because it has a 3 on the badge instead of a 2. Regardless if the 10k trailer he tows is well within a diesel 2500 ratings he still thinks that only a 3500 should be towing that kind of weight because that s the only kind of truck that did back in his day. Change does not come easy for him.

Is the registration fee that much more for a 1-ton than a 3/4 down there in TX?

Here in MN it is much cheaper to register a 1-ton. The first year of ownership registration for a $40,000 3/4-ton is somewhere near $500-$600, whereas my 1-ton is $138 every year. I think we may have talked about this before.

SouthTexan · Oct 17, 2017

MN-Ram said:
Is the registration fee that much more for a 1-ton than a 3/4 down there in TX?

Here in MN it is much cheaper to register a 1-ton. The first year of ownership registration for a $40,000 3/4-ton is somewhere near $500-$600, whereas my 1-ton is $138 every year. I think we may have talked about this before.

Yep, the state and county fee is double . The state fee for a vehicle below 10k GVWR is $54 and the fee for a vehicle between 10k-14k is $106. Then the county fee is double in many areas as well, but the amounts change from county to county.

MrR2500 · Oct 18, 2017

I went from a 2011 6.7 deleted 3500 dually to a 2014 2500 6.4. To be completely honest, that was the worst idea. I despise the truck, constantly shifting gears when my dually would just cruise. granted it was deleted, pulling my 6k TT, depending on wind I would average 12.5 mpg hand calc'd. Friend and I went to Colorado, he had a 2015 CC 3500 dually, and I had my 2011 CC 3500 dually his was stock, mine deleted, he averaged 8-9 mpg. I was averaging 12 mpg. trailers were within 2klbs of each other. I was amazed at the mileage difference. I am currently looking at trading back to a 6.7 diesel. I owned my 6.4 less than 2 months. I don't care about money lost. I want a truck that doesn't constantly shift at every little slight incline or gust of wind. My job changed and I could not fit my dually into a parking garage and I sold my 36' toyhauler and downsized to a 26' TT.

15BlueStreak · Oct 18, 2017

I say gear the truck to 4.56 or Buy a Ford 6.2l with 4.30 gears. I love this Ford transmission. Light years better my friends. And no i am not trolling just giving my honest opinion. I left my Ram 2015 6.4 4.10 gears for the Ford. It pulls our Jayco 324bhts much better. Fuel mileage is the same pulling the camper as the Hemi was. Camper weighs about 10k and is 38ft. long tip to tip. I am getting 8.5-9mpg pulling. Truck has almost 500 miles on it now. Got it 9-29-17. Had to order it to my likings. :favorites13:

loveracing1988 · Oct 18, 2017

15BlueStreak said:
I say gear the truck to 4.56 or Buy a Ford 6.2l with 4.30 gears. I love this Ford transmission. Light years better my friends. And no i am not trolling just giving my honest opinion. I left my Ram 2015 6.4 4.10 gears for the Ford. It pulls our Jayco 324bhts much better. Fuel mileage is the same pulling the camper as the Hemi was. Camper weighs about 10k and is 38ft. long tip to tip. I am getting 8.5-9mpg pulling. Truck has almost 500 miles on it now. Got it 9-29-17. Had to order it to my likings.

Yeah, I'm not going to ford no matter what. I just wish they would bring the 8 speed to the HD's. It would be a night and day difference just with that. I would love 4.56 gears though. I wouldn't mind test driving that ford pulling a trailer though, on paper it makes less power than the 6.4, but I wonder if real world it feels the opposite.

15BlueStreak · Oct 18, 2017

loveracing1988 said:
Yeah, I'm not going to ford no matter what. I just wish they would bring the 8 speed to the HD's. It would be a night and day difference just with that. I would love 4.56 gears though. I wouldn't mind test driving that ford pulling a trailer though, on paper it makes less power than the 6.4, but I wonder if real world it feels the opposite.

The real world is quite the opposite. The 6.2 makes slightly less horsepower but its torque which is the same as the 6.4 peaks at 3800rpm. Combine that with the 4.30 gears and superior gearing in the transmission its a winner. The new truck will hit 6th gear and hold it no problem on the flats where the Ram even with the 4.10s in it would seldom hit 5th towing my camper. The trucks also share the same tire size also. Its about as apples to apples as you get other than the Ford is a 8ft box rather than a short bed. I would bet 4.56 gears would make you a lot happier towing a camper. It was a long decision process before I switched probably about a year. I was dead set on getting a diesel most likely a Ram since they were about same price as the Ford gasser or regearing. After test driving a Ford I was sold on the ergonomics for my driving style, seat comfort, more cab room in the rear and overall quality. Then it was a reality check on whether I really wanted a diesel. I am glad i stayed with gas. If you havent gave one of the new Fords a tire kick it might be worth it. You never know you might change your mind. :favorites13:

They all make good trucks these days though. A good problem to have.

mtofell · Oct 18, 2017

15BlueStreak said:
I say gear the truck to 4.56 or Buy a Ford 6.2l with 4.30 gears. I love this Ford transmission. Light years better my friends. And no i am not trolling just giving my honest opinion. I left my Ram 2015 6.4 4.10 gears for the Ford. It pulls our Jayco 324bhts much better. Fuel mileage is the same pulling the camper as the Hemi was. Camper weighs about 10k and is 38ft. long tip to tip. I am getting 8.5-9mpg pulling. Truck has almost 500 miles on it now. Got it 9-29-17. Had to order it to my likings.

Yep, I can only dream of what my Hemi would be like with properly geared tranny that shifted like it should. When the power curve lines up with your situation this engine is an absolute beast. With my 11K 5th and 3.73 gearing if I can hold 2nd I'm golden. So, pretty much anything over about 50MPH. I've hauled up some pretty big mountain passes and can easily pick my speed from about 55-70. Even slowing for a curve I can get right back up to 65-70.

I agree the Ford with the 4.30 and good tranny would be a nice setup right out of the box.

Those who've traded

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