What if Ram/Cummins end relationship?

drittal · Sep 20, 2016

So we've all heard the rumors... some of us for years. Most sont think a switch is very likely if at all probable.

But, what if FCA decides to go in house down the road for a heavy duty diesel?

Do you think they would just let the contract expire and move on? Would they offer them alongside the Cummins for a while offering discounted price to get the foot in the door to prove the replacement is reliable? Rebrand them under the EcoDiesel moniker that seems tonbe proving itself? What do you think they do???

Ford has already ended the International/Navistar venture but they didn't market them as such. They moved away and we're able to keep the Powerstroke moniker that the navistar 7.3l made a household name. GM could use anything they want and slap the Duramax name on it. RAM has no such luxury.

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Iron Outlaw · Sep 20, 2016

They could call it a cummings and 90% of people wouldnt know a difference. Lol.

drittal · Sep 20, 2016

Iron Outlaw said:
They could call it a cummings and 90% of people wouldnt know a difference. Lol.

Bahahaha. The Cummings Auto Correct diesel.

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SouthTexan · Sep 20, 2016

Then my truck would probably be the last Ram truck I would own, and Ram would loose a good portion of the 75% of HD truck buyers that buy diesels.

drittal · Sep 20, 2016

SouthTexan said:
Then my truck would probably be the last Ram truck I would own, and Ram would loose a good portion of the 75% of HD truck buyers that buy diesels.

Even if they ran the replacement side by side with the cummins for 5yrs or more with deeper discounts and it proved to be as reliable? Doesn't the Iveco 6.7 have a connection to the cummins?

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drittal · Sep 20, 2016

SouthTexan said:
Then my truck would probably be the last Ram truck I would own, and Ram would loose a good portion of the 75% of HD truck buyers that buy diesels.

Btw, I agree they would lose a ton of sales if they just switch cold turkey. Such an event wouldn't benifit either party in the short term.

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SouthTexan · Sep 20, 2016

drittal said:
Even if they ran the replacement side by side with the cummins for 5yrs or more with deeper discounts and it proved to be as reliable? Doesn't the Iveco 6.7 have a connection to the cummins?

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Yes, the Iveco has a connection with the 5.9L Cummins. Iveco partnered with Cummins to use the base 5.9L engine, but that partnership died out a long time ago. The Iveco 6.7L would probably not sell well here and it would be about reliability either. The Iveco 6.7L has a longer stroke than the Cummins 6.7L making it have a much lower max engine speed which in turn means less horsepower. If I am not mistaken, then max engine speed is real low like 2,300 rpm and it only makes about 240 hp which is before our extra emission equipment. This may fly over in Europe with their slower speeds, but I don't think it would go over too well for those Cummins owners who are used to doing 70-75 mph towing their 12k RV.

12vrunner · Sep 20, 2016

How i feel about ram and the cummins is that i sure wish they would of made a better truck from the get go. They finally fixed the chassis and made them nice right at the same time emission came to kill the diesel world. My 96 runs awesome but truck is just wore out lol. But love it still. I do notice alot of cummins isx's in semis and etc needing overhauls at early ages.

drittal · Sep 20, 2016

SouthTexan said:
Yes, the Iveco has a connection with the 5.9L Cummins. Iveco partnered with Cummins to use the base 5.9L engine, but that partnership died out a long time ago. The Iveco 6.7L would probably not sell well here and it would be about reliability either. The Iveco 6.7L has a longer stroke than the Cummins 6.7L making it have a much lower max engine speed which in turn means less horsepower. If I am not mistaken, then max engine speed is real low like 2,300 rpm and it only makes about 240 hp which is before our extra emission equipment. This may fly over in Europe with their slower speeds, but I don't think it would go over too well for those Cummins owners who are used to doing 70-75 mph towing their 12k RV.

The Iveco 6.7l specs you posted is an industrial motor and compares more to say the QSB6.7 cummins in AG with a governed RPM of 2000-2500 and power output much lower than in light duty trucks 6.7. The power graphs for the Iveco 6.7 show it is tuned for max torque at very low RPM.

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theviking · Sep 20, 2016

Ram insiders have said repeatedly that the Cummins will be retained for the foreseeable future. It's actually the Hemi motors that have an end of life projection currently. Unless Trump gets in and starts playing whack-a-mole with the upcoming EPA fuel efficiency regulations.

drittal · Sep 20, 2016

SouthTexan said:
Yes, the Iveco has a connection with the 5.9L Cummins. Iveco partnered with Cummins to use the base 5.9L engine, but that partnership died out a long time ago. The Iveco 6.7L would probably not sell well here and it would be about reliability either. The Iveco 6.7L has a longer stroke than the Cummins 6.7L making it have a much lower max engine speed which in turn means less horsepower. If I am not mistaken, then max engine speed is real low like 2,300 rpm and it only makes about 240 hp which is before our extra emission equipment. This may fly over in Europe with their slower speeds, but I don't think it would go over too well for those Cummins owners who are used to doing 70-75 mph towing their 12k RV.

Sorry to quote again, but Iveco makes a marine version of the 6.7l diesel that is rated at 570hp at 3,000 rpm, 1120 lbft at 2,000. N67 570

The N67 450 line has a 370hp version, rated at 3,000 rpm with 939lbft at 1800.

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drittal · Sep 20, 2016

http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/57e1f226c29e3/N67_235kW_Truck.pdf
320hp @ 2500 Commercial Truck Application. 2800rpm max rpm? 1100Nm(811lbft) from 1250-1890.

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SouthTexan · Sep 20, 2016

I don't see what marine engines have to do with on highway engines? The Cummins 6.7L has the QSB67 marine version has 550 hp at 3,300 rpm which is higher than the on highway engines max 3,000 rpm. different scenerios. All of the on highway application of the Trector 7(Iveco 6.7L) seem to have a 2,500 max rpm. The most power I have seen from renewed research was 320 hp. It is still lacking compared to the Cummins 6.7L.

SouthTexan · Sep 20, 2016

drittal said:
http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/57e1f226c29e3/N67_235kW_Truck.pdf
320hp Commercial Truck Application. 2800rpm. 1100Nm(811lbft) from 1250-1890.

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Are you not liking your engine? Why such the interest in the Iveco?

drittal · Sep 20, 2016

SouthTexan said:
I don't see what marine engines have to do with on highway engines? The Cummins 6.7L has the QSB67 marine version has 550 hp at 3,300 rpm which is higher than the on highway engines max 3,000 rpm. different scenerios. All of the on highway application of the Trector 7(Iveco 6.7L) seem to have a 2,500 max rpm. The most power I have seen from renewed research was 320 hp. It is still lacking compared to the Cummins 6.7L.

Compared to the pickup cummins. The medium duty app cummins are derated and governed lower as well. The marine version shows the bore and stoke of the iveco can make sufficient rpm.

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SouthTexan · Sep 20, 2016

drittal said:
Compared to the pickup cummins. The medium duty app cummins are derated and governed lower as well. The marine version shows the bore and stoke of the iveco can make sufficient rpm.

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Yes, but less than the Cummins due to the longer stroke. I have no doubts you can safely get those Iveco's to higher rpms on water due to the type of load, but I don't think you will get there on the highway and it still be a long lasting reliable engine.

I still don't know why the interest in the Iveco. Do you not like your engine?

drittal · Sep 20, 2016

For instance, the ISB6.7 for medium duty trucks 2013 is governed to 2600rpm with power output from 200 to 325hp.

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drittal · Sep 20, 2016

I'm just saying. You compared industrial engine specs to pickup engine specs saying it doesn't make the HP or Rpm to sell stateside. It does turn over 3k in marine applications. In truck applications it shows similar stats to the the medium duty cummins offerings.

All to spur that FCA probably could build an in house diesel with power and torque that compares well to the current and possible future iteration(s) of light duty cummins being offered in RAM Pickups now and going forward.

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drittal · Sep 20, 2016

theviking said:
Ram insiders have said repeatedly that the Cummins will be retained for the foreseeable future. It's actually the Hemi motors that have an end of life projection currently. Unless Trump gets in and starts playing whack-a-mole with the upcoming EPA fuel efficiency regulations.

I have very little doubt Ram wants to end their relationship with cummins as it is a major sales factor.

I was just posing a theoretical what if parent FCA did the unthinkable yet highly rumored switch and pulled the rug out from under Ram and the customer base. Would it be cold turkey? Dual offering? Something else?

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DannyMK2 · Sep 20, 2016

the few years of crappy diesels ford had after the 7.3 doesnt seem to have hurt them much. i would imagine it would be the same for ram.

What if Ram/Cummins end relationship?

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