4WD Slips out under load

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CostaRam

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It still unlocks way too much for something thst should be locked 100% of the time in 4Lock. It may stay locked longer than 4Auto but it will unlock instantly if you let off the gas. Try backing up a trailer on grass or sand. The back end will kick out every time you let off the gas and press it again.

My words!

Can yillbs or Skery tell me where i can read more about that in 4WD LOCK the clutch disconnects power to the front axle if no slip is detected?


My Manual for my 2011 1500 5.7 4x4 with 44-44-000-001 transfer case and 5 point rotary switch states clearly:

1° 2WD -> Front axle disengaged
2° 4WD AUTO -> front axle engaged but power will be delivered to rear axle, clutch will connect automatically the two axles if slippage is detected
3° 4WD LOCK and 4WD LOW -> front axle is engaged and connected to the rear axle, power will be distributed to both axles and all 4 wheels.

- do not use the 4WD LOCK or 4WD LOW on paved roads as this may damage your tires or drivetrain

I googled for 4WD AUTO and 4WD LOCK and i could find nothing else than that 4WD LOCK means that the axles are locked together and power is distributed to both axles.

Chris
 

yillbs

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It still unlocks way too much for something thst should be locked 100% of the time in 4Lock. It may stay locked longer than 4Auto but it will unlock instantly if you let off the gas. Try backing up a trailer on grass or sand. The back end will kick out every time you let off the gas and press it again.

I had my truck in the shop ad had a rental Big Horn with 4Auto and even when I had it in 4Lo it would unlock when the gas was released and then relook when it spun. It was a royal pain to back the boat down the dirt path and into the water.


I don't see how it would be a pain. If you tried to back it down and had traction you only need 2 wheel drive anyways, if you did indeed lose traction your front would engage and you wouldn't even notice. If their is hesitation between engagement then the truck needs to be put into the shop.
 

cbsmith

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I don't see how it would be a pain. If you tried to back it down and had traction you only need 2 wheel drive anyways, if you did indeed lose traction your front would engage and you wouldn't even notice. If their is hesitation between engagement then the truck needs to be put into the shop.

I'm here to tell you if you are backing uphill on grass with a 6500lb boat and trailer you do need 4wd and even the slight slip before it engages is enough for the back end to slide sideways a bit. And if you are backing up trailers, especially uphill it is not a smooth motion, you are on and off the gas, the trucks stops and starts. As soon as you let off the gas or the truck stops the clutches unlock.

Or back across loose sand with 6500lbs. Unless you keep accelerating it will unlock and start over again.

I know you say you love the transfer case and think it is the greatest ever made but it is really far from that. Sure it is great on the road but if you really use the truck it is not that great.
 

Csanders1992

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I'm here to tell you if you are backing uphill on grass with a 6500lb boat and trailer you do need 4wd and even the slight slip before it engages is enough for the back end to slide sideways a bit. And if you are backing up trailers, especially uphill it is not a smooth motion, you are on and off the gas, the trucks stops and starts. As soon as you let off the gas or the truck stops the clutches unlock.



Or back across loose sand with 6500lbs. Unless you keep accelerating it will unlock and start over again.



I know you say you love the transfer case and think it is the greatest ever made but it is really far from that. Sure it is great on the road but if you really use the truck it is not that great.



I agree with you totally. I don't believe this transfer case belongs in a truck. Trucks are designed to be worked, that has always been the intended purpose.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

yillbs

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I'm here to tell you if you are backing uphill on grass with a 6500lb boat and trailer you do need 4wd and even the slight slip before it engages is enough for the back end to slide sideways a bit. And if you are backing up trailers, especially uphill it is not a smooth motion, you are on and off the gas, the trucks stops and starts. As soon as you let off the gas or the truck stops the clutches unlock.

Or back across loose sand with 6500lbs. Unless you keep accelerating it will unlock and start over again.

I know you say you love the transfer case and think it is the greatest ever made but it is really far from that. Sure it is great on the road but if you really use the truck it is not that great.

I digress, if what you describe is true, I would agree, but there is no way on earth that you're back tires are spinning enough to push you sideways. If they are, then you don't hate the bw44-44 transfer case, you hate the broken bw44-44 transfer case.

I've noticed every week or so a couple of these remarks are posted up, but not a single one ever has a video, just the comments about how it did something that isn't actually possible to do. I've seen videos at idle which show that the case isn't locked without slippage, but none where it's actually NOT doing a good job. with the countless videos on youtube, and various other forums, you'd think someone has managed to capture this weird rear wheel spin and getting stuck without ever engaging the front, or , spinning for multiple seconds before engaging the front. Tht's not how it's designed, and that's not how it works.

I seriously think it's because of a lack of education on how motion works. The first step into understanding WHY the Tcase works this way is to understand that 4x4 is NOT , and never has been designed to keep you moving, it's to give you momentum. When the rear breaks lose, the front kick in and move the truck, once the truck is moving, the front disengages because it's no longer needed, you're already moving. I get that their is nearly 90 years of people who get lockers, and all that Jazz, but again , you're in a truck that's designed to see some light snow, light mud, and even what you described. If you're rear wheels spin enough to enable the front, one of two things will happen, the front will spin, or , you will begin moving. the front wheels are no longer needed, once you have momentum, then the rear can continue to push, if you lose traction again ( such as stop and go skinny pedal ), then the wheels will engage on an ass needed basis, again though, just to get momentum. you're looking at the engineering changes here as a flaw, and they are not, they are merely lateral changes that many, MANY people don't like.I'm rather certain due to the number of false issues the transfer case has presented with, they will either release a way to engage the clutches on demand to give peace of mind to people that don't understand physics ( apparently that's a lot of people ), OR , the next revision will remain chain driven. It's inferior in the sense that you won't have auto abilities, but RAM needs to focus on what consumers want, and it appears most consumers just expect more from a light duty truck.
 
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cbsmith

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I understand that is how this t-case is designed and it is working that way. But it is the only transfer case in any 4x4 pickup truck to work this way. No other one does when in 4Hi or 4Lock, even ones with 4Auto. It shouldn't be in a pickup truck.

Why would the rear wheels need to break loose in order for the front to engage when the system is in 4Lock? That is the whole point of Lock vs Auto, it should be engaged 100% of the time.

And there is more wheel spin that a quarter turn when under high load, backing a large load up a hill will have the engine at 1500-2000rpm before it even starts to move and then when it does there is more slippage than what you say. And it jut isn't one truck, the neighbor at my cottage has a Laramie and his does the same thing and also a loaner that he had. So from my experience 3 out of 3 trucks with the BW 44-44 behave this way.
 

CostaRam

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I live more than 20 years on the beach and driving with 2 and 4 wheel drive equipped cars and trucks is my daily business and my origin is Switzerland where i was used to drive on various snow and ice conditions during winter.

Driving a car under slippery conditions will lead the the clutch engages, the car moves 1 wheel turn (or whatever it is), the they slip again as the wheels spin, the clutch engages again till the car has grip, disengages, the wheels slip, the clutch engages, and so on till non slippery conditions are reached (if so)
This gives you almost no momentum as the car stops immediately as the wheels start spinning again.
I think that it is widely accepted knowledge and practice to never stop on slippery surface and use speed/momentum to go ahead as
once our stopped you may don't be able to get enough grip to get the car moving again.
This is especially true in heavy and deep snow and in big grain sand or gravel when the car stops almost immediately due the drag/plow when the tires sink in the surface.

What you are talking of is how a 4WD AUTO is working and not as 4WD LOCK supposed to work as 4WD LOCK should lock the rear and front drive train so that both axles get power until you select 4WD AUTO or 2WD.
When i use 4WD LOCK on my Ford Explorer then he locks the front and rear drive train until i switch back to 4X4 AUTO,
same is valid for my Isuzu D-Max (Chevrolet Colorado) but this car has only 2WD, 4WD LOCK and 4WD LOW.
That is how most of 4X4 cars work, manual transfer cases or automatic transfer cases.
The only special case i know is the Land Rover Defender who applies also brake power on the opposite wheel of the spinning wheel to avoid that the differential kills power to the non spinning wheel. The purpose of this strange but working system is to save the $$$ for lockable differentials as braking the spinning wheel has a similar effect.

Whatever, i bought this truck with the impression that 4WD LOCK means that this locks the two drive trains until i switch back to 4WD AUTO or 2WD.
As soon i have time i will try my truck in softer sand to verify if the disengages before i switch back to 4WD AUTO or 2WD.

Chris
 
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yillbs

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There is no disputing the label on the dial is incorrect. That, even I will agree too. With that said, you're thinking about it as someone who's used off the path 4x4 systems for 20 years. Which isn't a bad thing, but in this case, it's wrong.

4 LOCK will lock the tires as long as slippage is detected and the accelerator is pressed. Once the rear wheel spins, front will engage. From here, you continue to give the truck gas, the front will stay engaged. unlike what will happen on the 4 auto, where once the momentum is moving, it will stop. Ram thinks in a way that is simple. If you press the gas, you want to make it through whatever obstacle is in your way. In there mind, you're in a light duty truck, you want to get through some sand, some ice, maybe some snow. They don't expect you to go through 4 inches of loose sand for 2 miles. I understand that's always been okay, but maybe it's time to start thinking the way we've always done it was wrong, and this is the actual right?
 

cbsmith

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4x4 vehicles have been around for what, 60 or 70 years? And have always operated in full lock all the time when engaged. The BW 44-44 has been a few years? I think it is safe to say that we have been doing it right for decades and this transfer case is just not intended for real use in a truck.

I'm done with this topic, it's obvious that there is no convincing you that this is an issue but do a few google searches. I was trying to find out when the 44-44 was first made and just by searching borg warner 44-44 the entire first page is all complaints from Ram owners about it from pretty much every forum that has a Ram section.
 

Murphy Slaw

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do a few google searches. I was trying to find out when the 44-44 was first made and just by searching borg warner 44-44 the entire first page is all complaints from Ram owners about it from pretty much every forum that has a Ram section.

Bingo.

That's why I wondered if it was going to effect re-sale on Bighorns and Laramie's in the FUTURE. Simply researching them will now will pull up a ton of complaints, which in turn causes more research.

And I simply couldn't buy a used one.

I think a NEW one would probably work just fine for me, I only use 4x4 a few times a year normally, perhaps 10/12 during a wet season because I have a hunting cabin in the woods.
 

CostaRam

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So i went to do a test on a sandy patch and the results where disappointing;
I drove to soft sand where the tires sunk about 2 inch, engaged 4WD LOCK and then it happened what i feared.
The clutches started to engage and disengage the power to the front wheels when the wheels slipped with the effect that the truck rocked his way backwards out of the sand.
This rocking movement was also accompanied by noticeable bangs and hits when the clutch engaged or disengaged.
Well, obviously some people have different opinions about the use of a RAM and the use and how 4X4 lock should work.
To everybody his believe, i just have to say that i am very disappointed about the non locking 4WD LOCK system on the RAM.
I probably should have to investigate better before i bought it ...

Whatever;
I think that a software update will enable a full 4WD LOCK, as the locking mechanism is handled by the 4WD control Module.
As far i understood, the 44-44 has all the necessary things to be full time locked and this will be beneficial for the clutches and the whole drive train to have them full time engaged while on slippery surface.
The main problem for that is how to reverse engineer the traction control module to be able to tweak tit to have the 4WD lock engaged until the 4WD AUTO or 2WD mode is selected.

Chris
 

mohemipar

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This is one of my biggest reasons for wanting to make the switch to a 2500 soon. Payload being the first. But I do a lot of driving in mud/snow in Michigan and Massachusetts and I'm just not down for having a T-case that should really be in an SUV.

I do have to say though, I bought my truck used with 30k on it back in 2015 and it hasnt had a single issue through some pretty bad mud and snow as far as reliability, but after I realized the truck wasnt really locking (realized it on a snow covered trail) and did some research, I was pissed. Without a doubt there are times that 4 lock would have served me better. Prob the only thing about this truck that has actually really disappointed me. In all honesty its not a HUGE deal, but just another reason I want a 2500.
 

yillbs

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This is one of my biggest reasons for wanting to make the switch to a 2500 soon. Payload being the first. But I do a lot of driving in mud/snow in Michigan and Massachusetts and I'm just not down for having a T-case that should really be in an SUV.

I do have to say though, I bought my truck used with 30k on it back in 2015 and it hasnt had a single issue through some pretty bad mud and snow as far as reliability, but after I realized the truck wasnt really locking (realized it on a snow covered trail) and did some research, I was pissed. Without a doubt there are times that 4 lock would have served me better. Prob the only thing about this truck that has actually really disappointed me. In all honesty its not a HUGE deal, but just another reason I want a 2500.

you have a light duty truck with the lowest payload in it's class. Their ARE sup's with more power, better payload, and higher towing abilities. You essentially already have an SUV with a bed. That is where you're logic is failing, not because you're ignorant, or because you're unsmart, it's because you're thinking your light duty pickup is somehow special. Once you understand you're driving a mid sized SUV with a bed, you'll understand why you have the transfer case you have.
 

huntergreen

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So i went to do a test on a sandy patch and the results where disappointing;
I drove to soft sand where the tires sunk about 2 inch, engaged 4WD LOCK and then it happened what i feared.
The clutches started to engage and disengage the power to the front wheels when the wheels slipped with the effect that the truck rocked his way backwards out of the sand.
This rocking movement was also accompanied by noticeable bangs and hits when the clutch engaged or disengaged.
Well, obviously some people have different opinions about the use of a RAM and the use and how 4X4 lock should work.
To everybody his believe, i just have to say that i am very disappointed about the non locking 4WD LOCK system on the RAM.
I probably should have to investigate better before i bought it ...

Whatever;

I think that a software update will enable a full 4WD LOCK, as the locking mechanism is handled by the 4WD control Module.
As far i understood, the 44-44 has all the necessary things to be full time locked and this will be beneficial for the clutches and the whole drive train to have them full time engaged while on slippery surface.
The main problem for that is how to reverse engineer the traction control module to be able to tweak tit to have the 4WD lock engaged until the 4WD AUTO or 2WD mode is selected.


Chris



what tires are you running and what did you air down to ?
 

huntergreen

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This is one of my biggest reasons for wanting to make the switch to a 2500 soon. Payload being the first. But I do a lot of driving in mud/snow in Michigan and Massachusetts and I'm just not down for having a T-case that should really be in an SUV.

I do have to say though, I bought my truck used with 30k on it back in 2015 and it hasnt had a single issue through some pretty bad mud and snow as far as reliability, but after I realized the truck wasnt really locking (realized it on a snow covered trail) and did some research, I was pissed. Without a doubt there are times that 4 lock would have served me better. Prob the only thing about this truck that has actually really disappointed me. In all honesty its not a HUGE deal, but just another reason I want a 2500.

i have never had an issue in the snow either. no one should overlook skill. my 1500 does everything i need it to.
 

yillbs

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what tires are you running and what did you air down to ?

^^^^ I keep on board air under my bed, for my airbags. I can just air down, and back up as I please, takes like 3 seconds, literally. It's important what tires and pressure you run.

Moreover, your clutches only engage, and re-engage if you're constantly spinning the rear tires. on, and off.
 

smiley

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This is all covered in another thread. The transfer case is not good and it is not even close to AWD. I love Ram and I just hate that they have put so many people in position they have to defend their 40k plus truck because they got the transfer case that is trying to get mpg but is not able to truly lock in the two axles. Not okay and no one should be willing to accept it or the 2018 will have the same hogwash.
 

AtomicDog

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I am no expert at all when it comes to 4WD, but it seemed to me that my old ram in 4WD was locked and stayed locked and that is what I expected.

This new fangled Auto 4WD is rather a mystery to me (haven't even tested it on my truck yet), but I believe there are legitimate gripes that locked should mean locked. Wouldn't any reasonable, average person have that expectation? Of course. Therefore it is wrong to indicate locked when it really isn't.

I really enjoy the thread though. Many good opinions and I have learned some things along the way.
 

CostaRam

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Huntergreen
i run 305/55/R20 Toyo A/T and they where at 35 psi.
I never lowered air pressure on sand on any of my cars as i always made it with engaged 4WD and this includes my own cars (a Lada Niva, a Toyota BJ70, a Land Rover Discovery, Isuzu D-Max (Chevrolet Colorado), a Dodge Dakota and Ford Explorer.) I did hundred of miles in the White Sands Desert in Oman and thousands of miles on the beach and hard offroad conditions in Costa Rica and Sardinia.

The problem is not the "high" tire pressure the problem is the way how the transfer gearbox is working under slippery conditions.

Chris
 

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