Thought I Had Seen All the Dealer Tricks...

Warning Long Story Ahead

I am a bit conflicted this morning because I absolutely love my new Ram 1500 Longhorn edition and I am confident that I got both a good if not great deal in terms of price and financing. I also really liked the sales rep and "finance manager" during the experience. However two things happened during the transaction that I now believe were clear "sales tricks/tactics" at best and outright scams at worst so I wondered if any of you had or heard of a similar experience. First let me preface with two facts: I usually buy cheaper used cars that I can pay cash for and had not financed a car in a decade. Second I have an absolute OCD when it comes to my credit score and check/manage if religiously through creditkarma. That said here is my story of not one but i believe two scams used on me that i believe i avoided... barely.

After haggling for the better part of two days on the price for my loaded longhorn we reach the credit application phase. My credit score is consistently above 800 and has been for years. I told the sales rep that there was ZERO chance I would pay any interest rate above 3 percent and let him know my score, he agreed. When he came back a few minutes later I was told my score was "not quite as high as I thought" and came in at 733 to which I refuted immediately. He offered to show it to me and produced a printed document that showed 733 from transunion but looked clearly like an inhouse word template. This was accompanied by an offer of 4.99 percent which was instantly refused. I then proceeded to pull my credit score app and showed him two scores from equifax and transunion of 811 and 807 respectively. His response was that they get this a lot and that "most consumer apps/sites like creditkarma are not accurate and that his score was "straight from transunion". After telling him that - as i said - i would NOT pay over 3%, he went back and "fought for me" and got me down to 3.35. I relented on this number because at the time I did not even think for a minute that the dealer may literally be lying to me. However after sleeping on it and worrying over my credit i ran across this site and many others like it: https://www.carbuyingtips.com/top-10-scams/scam2.htm that speak to this "scam".

The second scam I was well prepared for but thrown a funny twist i wanted to share. We all know the finance guy should really be called the "get more money from the customer via extended warranties and services guy". I actually wanted an extended warranty this time since it was a 50k purchase with nav and air ride and because i plan to keep it forever but i was ready to battle.

As most of you know Ram offers an extended lifetime warranty that some find very valuable despite its cost. So after literally an hour of haggling from the starting price of $6,000 (included liftetime powertrain and electronics warranty, gap coverage, wheel and tire coverage for 60k, some resistall paint protection, a 10 oil change maintenance contract and paint and dent repair coverage) we eventually got down to $2,875 by removing the gap, wheel and maintenance and refusing the covereage all together FIVE TIMES... seriously lol (again I planned to get so I felt i was working him).

THEN the strangest thing happened that i immediately thought was a tactic but amazed me nonetheless. After the 5th refusal, he said to me "what if I call the bank and get you a friends rate discount?" I was floored!... I said that a lower rate might get me to reconsider. The finance guy picks up the phone and calls or pretends to call someone at the bank and i hear him say "Hey I have a loan account ###### for Rich ####... he is a dear friend of the family, can we get him a better rate than this 3.35? I will make it up to you on the next one"... he hangs up and says they are "running it up the flag pole"... 10 minutes later he looks at his computer screen and says YEAH man, 3.15! then puts his fist out for me to bump it! LOL... is that not the ballsiest move ever or am I flat out wrong and there is some chance he actually did that?

I ended up paying the 2875 for the lifetime, the resistall and the paint/dent contract. While I know its expensive and they push it HARD, if i own this truck for 7-10 years and that nav or air ride goes out... or any other major system, i paid for the contract.

I must say that I actually enjoyed working with both guys, but cannot help but feel they tried and mostly failed to scam me... Anyone ever experience anything like this?

The finance manager office is a high profit center. Settling on the price of the truck is easy, but the next hurdle is not getting sucked into the "extras" in the finance office. Many of us have experienced that. Just say no, no, no, no over and over and they will relent if they think you will walk. They're used to dealing with dolts that have bad credit that they can take advantage of and we're cattle to the slaughter. They get paid on the points over what you originally qualified for. Also, extended warranty costs them nothing to sell, they mark it up.

Wow.

On the credit karma issue.....I check mine religiously as well through them. It is not an accurate score. CK uses their own type of scoring system (vantage) to give an idea of your credit score. It is a good little tool for reference though. Besides, my actual(FICO) is usually always higher than what credit karma states.

its typical. if they dont get you on the sale of the truck, they get you with the finance. next time get a pre-approval from your own bank or lender before you go in. this way they either match or beat the rate you already have and cant jerk you around on that. 3% is still kinda high for your credit score, imo. you could've gotten a better rate elsewhere i would think.

DannyMK2 said:

its typical. if they dont get you on the sale of the truck, they get you with the finance. next time get a pre-approval from your own bank or lender before you go in. this way they either match or beat the rate you already have and cant jerk you around on that. 3% is still kinda high for your credit score, imo. you could've gotten a better rate elsewhere i would think.

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I had not financed a car for some time so perhaps my rate could have been better. I should note this was a CPO and not brand new, I could have 0 for 72 on new but wanted the CPO with only 20k miles so I thought 3% for used was good if not great.

lol been there. When i bought out my lease they told me id be getting "around 3%" which i was fine with.

Then i get to signing the paper work and its 4.3 or something like that. They went with the well you're young and its your first time financing a vehicle. I said whatever, ive only been paying it for 6 months and itll be getting payed off completely within the next 2 so they can have that one.

But either way i know it was a bunch of BS my credit score is 800+ and has been for awhile..i strive to get the best credit i can...may sound lame but im very proud of it lmao almost 23 and i already have almost 100k in available total credit with one card with a 20k limit and another with 17.5k.

Sorry got a little side tracked there. Dealers suck next time i will be bringing my own pre approved financing

Credit Union could have gotten you at least 72 for 1.9% with your score. Went through the same thing when a bought a Charger last month. Told the dealer to match the credit union, they said no, so we financed else where.

Chargerrich said:

I had not financed a car for some time so perhaps my rate could have been better. I should note this was a CPO and not brand new, I could have 0 for 72 on new but wanted the CPO with only 20k miles so I thought 3% for used was good if not great.

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i didnt catch the fact that it was a CPO. its not a terrible rate then. you could always re-finance if you happen to find a significantly better rate anyway.

Credit Karma is a decent tool, but the scores are not accurate, usually within 20-30 points. I think they did use the 'lower credit score' on you. But this is why you go to your bank and get it pulled. Sometimes dealers will tell you they will run your credit once, when they send it out to 3-7 banks, and it gets a hard pull many times.

When I purchased my 2015 Ram, I worked on the price of the truck first. When they asked about financing I said that will come later, lets work on the price of the truck.
Once I did, I told them on a truck that stickered for $43,600 Id give them $33k, out the door.
After some debate, he finally went for it assuming they would get me in finance.
When he asked if I was ready to go do paperwork and get financing, I told them "no, Im writing a check from my bank" ....man he was MAD!
So I wrote a check out and was on my way. I knew going into any deal I wanted what I was covered for and APR...so I was in the driving seat, no pun intended.

If its CPO you got a pretty good deal Most CU's may get you into a 2-3% range on a CPO.

Even if you dont go through your own bank/CU know what you can do for a rate with them. Dealers can negotiate APR's. If you have good credit. A dealer can legally mark up a loan by 2% and then they pocket the extra 2%. If they dont mark it up they usually get a flat fee from the bank (kickback) for the loan.

In '13 when i purchased a new camaro i knew that my CU was at 1.99, when the dealer asked if i would go through them (knowing my credit was 800+) i said only if they beat my CU's rate. and they did at 1.7%. too back for them they didnt get the kickback since i paid the loan off before 6months of it being opened.

When i purchased my current '15 ram a year ago my neighbor is the finance manager at the dealer he called the bank and had them lower from a 2.1 to a 1.6% so he knew he would only get the flat fee.

Wow this has been a crazy read. My credit took some large hits and I am bouncing between high 600s and low 700s depending on the month. That said, my CPO was a very low mileage rig with 0 down and a note. I fought aggressively on the rig price and shut them down hard in finance. The dealer used a credit union and I pulled a 1.9% APR. Do know that the score dealers use is not the same as we see from the banks. My buddy in wells Fargo auto division helped me get out for what I wanted, but spent a lot of time talking about my auto credit score. Which was way higher than my actual credit score. Weird... But I got the truck I always wanted for the price I was happy with. Congrats on the new rig!

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op, had you looked on line, you could have gotten the life time warranty for about 2600.00. that is on a new purchase. imho, you may have been able to save about 10.00 or less on your payment. i think you did fine. enjoy the new ride.

have to laugh at the ad ons.
they always try that with me, and I ask, "if I cange my mind, how much time do I have to cancel with no penalties, they say 30 days, so I go back at 15 days and said I don't want it, and I have in qriting where they said I have 30 days.
****** them off BIG TIME
Take the refund check and pay it on loan of truck, I have done this 2 times same Toyota dealer same manager.

Along the same lines watch for the fake Kelly Blue Book printouts at trade-in time. If you want to have some fun take a copy of your own in and try to get the one they bring out in your hand (they usually won't let it out of their hand). If you can get both in hand they really start to tap dance.

It's all the crap like this that makes me laugh when dealers act insulted that you don't trust them. 99% of them would kick their mother in the crotch for $50. It's just a business that you have to be greasy in to survive. From the salesman to the finance guy to the managers and even to the owners.

Funny related story - I was recently meeting with a new general manager from one of my company's vendors. The guy was just fast talking and seemed a bit shifty. I just felt like he was constantly trying to pull something over on me even though this meeting wasn't even really about buying/selling anything. Towards the end we were just chit chatting and he mentioned his whole family owns car dealerships a couple states away and he grew up in that business. It all made perfect sense. It's just a different breed of person.

Why weren't you pre approved before you went in with your own bank?

I also always go in with title in hand of truck I am trading, and let them know I like there car/truck BUT do I need it, NO

so the game is in my court.
If they want to sale, they will meet me.
Most of the time it works

You should see how these cocksuckers react when you pay with actual CASH...I spent $70,000.00+ with FCA on 2 vehicles within 1 years time...Both paid for in full with cash...The instantaneous change in the sales pukes personality was laughable when I told him it would be a cash deal...Then when I told them I wanted the title in someone elses name, they didn't know what the fawk to do...LOOOOOOL...Atleast the G.M. @ the FORD dealer was straight with me how they were going to charge me $1500.00 MORE for the truck because I was paying with cash...Of course I walked out LAUGHING MY BALZ OFF...I'm actually surprised that more people don't walk back in dealerships with guns and shoot salesmen after they realize how bad they got ****** in their ass on auto/truck purchases...

I got 1.5% for 3 years. I have the money to pay for the truck but I figure I'm earning more money on the money being invested.

Car dealers are the sum of the earth. They will try anything to make an extra $$$$$

as stated, always go in with preapprove paper work. gives you no reason to "bargain" finance rates. then you can say "meet it or beat it if you want the loan commission." and regardless, always be ready to walk away, unless the next dealer is 100 miles away.

having said that, my local Ram dealer tried to add on one of those security code sticker on all body panels deals for $200. I told them no. but when I went to sign the paper work, they still calculated it in. I didn't catch it until just before I left the dealer. Luckily they had a separate sheet to decline this coverage I already initialed. So the finance guy says it's good insurance to have and tried to convince me to keep it. I told them if my truck is ever stolen, I DON'T want it back, I want it gone or totaled. he wrote me a check for $200. sneaky, sneaky person. unfortunately, this practice is common around my area. Was pretty refreshing to work with Dennis Dillon - straight forward, no BS. But my guard was still up.