Sillygoose
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This, just did my drop kit a couple weeks ago
Lowering my truck today. Need help.
- Thread starter Ak47bravo
- Start date
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Ak47bravo
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So we got everything put back together.
Now we are trying to tweak the axle position and pinion angle. The axle seems to be sitting good left to right (when look towards the front of the truck while standing behind it).
We drove around the block and can hear a clunking noise associated with speed (sound starts after 5 mph and Increases with speed.). I think it's the driveshaft.
The angle finder I have is a *************. I believe the front angle is 88 and the rear angle is 90.
So I think the pinion is wrong. Adjusting is very difficult as I can not get an accurate read or the rear angle (or the front really either...).
Does this clunking sound like driveshaft noise/vibration to y'all?
Anyone have tips for an accurate way to adjust the pinion angle?
Now we are trying to tweak the axle position and pinion angle. The axle seems to be sitting good left to right (when look towards the front of the truck while standing behind it).
We drove around the block and can hear a clunking noise associated with speed (sound starts after 5 mph and Increases with speed.). I think it's the driveshaft.
The angle finder I have is a *************. I believe the front angle is 88 and the rear angle is 90.
So I think the pinion is wrong. Adjusting is very difficult as I can not get an accurate read or the rear angle (or the front really either...).
Does this clunking sound like driveshaft noise/vibration to y'all?
Anyone have tips for an accurate way to adjust the pinion angle?
charonblk07
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The driveshaft can look good laterally compared to the body but there's no guarantee it's good relative to the transmission. This is where you need to get a professional alignment done. You can get the alignment alright with the good ol' eyeball but a laser will tell you what really needs to be looked at.
DavidRam
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This ^^^.
Let an alignment shop set your pinion angle... It is VERY likely that your bed is not on perfectly straight, so lining the axle up with it could be a mistake.
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Ak47bravo
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So the front angle where the driveshaft meets the transmission output is 85.5.
Where the driveshaft meets the rear differential is 84.7. So we have close to the 1 degree difference while not under load (acceleration causes the differential nose to come up.
The vibration had significantly decreased from before. We bought a digital angle finder which is much easier to use.
I understand that taking it to a shop is the best thing to do. Those are my intentions. Here is the problem. I came to San Antonio (from Houston) to my buddies to do the install. So I have a 3 hour drive home and then tomorrow I can drop it off at a shop.
Though I do not understand some of the comments regarding adjusting the axle left (driver side) to right (passenger side) affecting the pinion angle. Or insulating that I am doing this to affect the pinion angle? Without an adjustable pan hard bar the axle would sit slightly left anyways. That is why an adjustable pan hard bar is needed. No I understand the comments of the bed not being on straight. Though moving the axle left to right should not affect the pinion angle (unless it creates lateral strain on the joint if it were severely misaligned.
So I am trying to get the truck good "enough" for the 3 hour drive.
I feel vibration from acceleration through the 15-35 mph range then it dissipates. At 70 mph the truck feels pretty smooth (definitely smoother than lower speed). When I let off the throttle I can hear something. We can not identify what it is. I'm going to drive the truck easy on the way home.
Where the driveshaft meets the rear differential is 84.7. So we have close to the 1 degree difference while not under load (acceleration causes the differential nose to come up.
The vibration had significantly decreased from before. We bought a digital angle finder which is much easier to use.
I understand that taking it to a shop is the best thing to do. Those are my intentions. Here is the problem. I came to San Antonio (from Houston) to my buddies to do the install. So I have a 3 hour drive home and then tomorrow I can drop it off at a shop.
Though I do not understand some of the comments regarding adjusting the axle left (driver side) to right (passenger side) affecting the pinion angle. Or insulating that I am doing this to affect the pinion angle? Without an adjustable pan hard bar the axle would sit slightly left anyways. That is why an adjustable pan hard bar is needed. No I understand the comments of the bed not being on straight. Though moving the axle left to right should not affect the pinion angle (unless it creates lateral strain on the joint if it were severely misaligned.
So I am trying to get the truck good "enough" for the 3 hour drive.
I feel vibration from acceleration through the 15-35 mph range then it dissipates. At 70 mph the truck feels pretty smooth (definitely smoother than lower speed). When I let off the throttle I can hear something. We can not identify what it is. I'm going to drive the truck easy on the way home.
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Ak47bravo
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At this point I just want the truck drive able (without causing damage to components ) to get home to Houston from San Antonio. Then I'm going to drop it off at a shop tomorrow.
THETANK
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good luck with the trip home and as you mentioned taker easy.
charonblk07
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You'll be fine on a trip like that.
As for understanding the lateral pinion angle, remember, you are operating in 3 dimensions. With the adjustable control arms and panhard bar you have a total of 6 degrees of freedom.
If you stood the truck on its side the same upper control arms that located the differential for the vertical now would be the lateral. The panhard bar would now be the vertical pinion angle adjustment.
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As for understanding the lateral pinion angle, remember, you are operating in 3 dimensions. With the adjustable control arms and panhard bar you have a total of 6 degrees of freedom.
If you stood the truck on its side the same upper control arms that located the differential for the vertical now would be the lateral. The panhard bar would now be the vertical pinion angle adjustment.
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Ak47bravo
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Gotcha. Well, we messed with it some more and I just got back to Houston. We did a final adjust and got the pinion angle closer to the tranny/driveshaft angle. The vibration was gone and the truck felt smooth (I absolutely think it should still be dialed in).
I would say the most difficult things we encountered were:
1. The upper rear shock mount bolt - We had trouble getting a wrench, socket, vice grip, etc. to sit well on that bolt. If whom ever is reading this has never removed this bolt it is hard to understand why it is so difficult. Basically the frame is right next to the nut and thre is a little divot essentially to accomodate the nut/bolt. However this divot is not very big, so fitting anything of the nut without hitting the frame/divot is difficult.
2. Getting the upper ball joint to separate from the spindle- we had a 6 foot breaker bar that my buddy was pushing the lower control arm down while I hit the spindle (at the UBJ location) to try and break it loose. This worked almost immediately on the right side (we struggled prior to breaking it loose in this fashion) but on the driver side it was hell. It was definitely not coming out.
The video David ram posted was very helpful. After watching my buddy took the UBJ nut and threaded it down to the bottom to act as a larger surface (than the flat part of the UBJ bolt) to tap upwards with a hammer. Mind you we already tapped the bolt upwards before which did nothing. Though as soon as he did that and gave it 2 taps it dropped immediately.
3. Setting the pinion angle correct. This can be alittle confusing and I wish I had photos and a to draw a picture to show everyone what we experienced.
I am going to do a thorough write up when I have time. I am pretty wiped right now. I do appreciate everyone's input and advice during this install!
We installed the following:
Belltech 2/4 lowering springs
Rear only** Street Performance Shocks
Hellwig rear sway bar
Spohn Adjustable Upper/Lower control arms
Spohn Adjustable panhard bar.
Moog F-150 Sway bar end-links
Mufflex 14" Muffler
I think that's it....
Impressions: I drove the truck pretty easy on the way home (cruise control 75 for most the way. Accelerated slowly. Did not take turns hard)
It definitely feels stiffer overall, front and back. It feels tighter and more planted in turns (even when not pushing hard). The exhaust sounds nice IMO.
All in all I am satisfied and am anxious to push it hard to see the true difference. I will say I hit a few bumps and they were brutal.... and these were not huge bumps with tons of speed. They definitely felt like they bottomed the rear out. I don't know if they truly did, but it sure as hell felt like it (I have driven very stiff suspension vehicles before, so I have a good idea of what stiff and low feels like).
Attachments
looks exactly like mine.
DavidRam
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Gotcha. Well, we messed with it some more and I just got back to Houston. We did a final adjust and got the pinion angle closer to the tranny/driveshaft angle. The vibration was gone and the truck felt smooth (I absolutely think it should still be dialed in).
I would say the most difficult things we encountered were:
1. The upper rear shock mount bolt - We had trouble getting a wrench, socket, vice grip, etc. to sit well on that bolt. If whom ever is reading this has never removed this bolt it is hard to understand why it is so difficult. Basically the frame is right next to the nut and thre is a little divot essentially to accomodate the nut/bolt. However this divot is not very big, so fitting anything of the nut without hitting the frame/divot is difficult.
2. Getting the upper ball joint to separate from the spindle- we had a 6 foot breaker bar that my buddy was pushing the lower control arm down while I hit the spindle (at the UBJ location) to try and break it loose. This worked almost immediately on the right side (we struggled prior to breaking it loose in this fashion) but on the driver side it was hell. It was definitely not coming out.
The video David ram posted was very helpful. After watching my buddy took the UBJ nut and threaded it down to the bottom to act as a larger surface (than the flat part of the UBJ bolt) to tap upwards with a hammer. Mind you we already tapped the bolt upwards before which did nothing. Though as soon as he did that and gave it 2 taps it dropped immediately.
3. Setting the pinion angle correct. This can be alittle confusing and I wish I had photos and a to draw a picture to show everyone what we experienced.
I am going to do a thorough write up when I have time. I am pretty wiped right now. I do appreciate everyone's input and advice during this install!
We installed the following:
Belltech 2/4 lowering springs
Rear only** Street Performance Shocks
Hellwig rear sway bar
Spohn Adjustable Upper/Lower control arms
Spohn Adjustable panhard bar.
Moog F-150 Sway bar end-links
Mufflex 14" Muffler
I think that's it....
Impressions: I drove the truck pretty easy on the way home (cruise control 75 for most the way. Accelerated slowly. Did not take turns hard)
It definitely feels stiffer overall, front and back. It feels tighter and more planted in turns (even when not pushing hard). The exhaust sounds nice IMO.
All in all I am satisfied and am anxious to push it hard to see the true difference. I will say I hit a few bumps and they were brutal.... and these were not huge bumps with tons of speed. They definitely felt like they bottomed the rear out. I don't know if they truly did, but it sure as hell felt like it (I have driven very stiff suspension vehicles before, so I have a good idea of what stiff and low feels like).
Looks great man! Tough weekend, but a lot to show for it! Now to get it dialed in and take out for some fun! Get the axle centered and you'll love how good these trucks look and handle when they're lowered with some good suspension parts...
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Ak47bravo
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So I spoke to a truck shop (All out Off road- Local shop here in the Houston area with several locations)
I will take the truck in this Wednesday morning. I explained to the guy what I need but I am going to thoroughly explain to whatever technician is working on the truck (the guy on the phone was checking to see if they had shims to ensure they could adjust the pinion angle. I told him both the upper and lower rear control arms are adjustable, so they really should not need any shims).
Also, the transmission output shaft in relation to the angle of the driveshaft is almost in line. From a lot of the stuff I had read and seen on youtube and forums about setting the pinion angle, I was expecting the connection of the driveshaft to the tranny to be much more pronounced in terms of angle.
I guess I just get nervous taking the truck to a shop I have never dealt with before. With my previous cars I knew the guys working on them and that they would always install things the right way. If that meant buying a special tool needed to complete the job (not that the didn't have the tools, but you get the idea) they made sure the job was done right.
I will take the truck in this Wednesday morning. I explained to the guy what I need but I am going to thoroughly explain to whatever technician is working on the truck (the guy on the phone was checking to see if they had shims to ensure they could adjust the pinion angle. I told him both the upper and lower rear control arms are adjustable, so they really should not need any shims).
Also, the transmission output shaft in relation to the angle of the driveshaft is almost in line. From a lot of the stuff I had read and seen on youtube and forums about setting the pinion angle, I was expecting the connection of the driveshaft to the tranny to be much more pronounced in terms of angle.
I guess I just get nervous taking the truck to a shop I have never dealt with before. With my previous cars I knew the guys working on them and that they would always install things the right way. If that meant buying a special tool needed to complete the job (not that the didn't have the tools, but you get the idea) they made sure the job was done right.
adurm
Senior Member
Not sure if it was mentioned but on my 2/4 belltech reg cab drop, I heard some chuffing when I turned left. It was the drive shaft scraping the gas tank shield. Had to bend it out of the way a little. I had the track bar relocator piece.
razor1
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mine is at 1+ on the pinion angle with no vibrations at speed.
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Ak47bravo
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Before I got my pinion angle more dialed in, my driveshaft was doing the same thing. Rubbing on the heatshield by the gas tank.
Do you have adjustable arms? If not, I don't think you really would be able to do much for your pinion angle.
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Ak47bravo
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Do you have any clunking sounds at all? When I hit bumps sometimes I hear a clunking sound. Almost like something is loose. I have no idea what it could be. We doubled checked all the bolts. I do have a tie down strap in the bed. So maybe it is clanking when I hit bumps... though I would frequently have some tie downs in the bed prior to the 2/4 drop and I never remember hearing any sound like this...
It makes me feel so nervous and not confident. Like something is going to just fall off..
DavidRam
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If the clunking happens when you hit bumps, it is most likely your Spohn panhard bar...
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Ak47bravo
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It does seem to happen only when I hit bumps (not every time from what I have noticed but maybe it is everytime..). If it is the panhard bar, what exactly is clunking? Is it making contact with the sway bar? I know they are very close in proximity.
DavidRam
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If yours is doing what mine did, it's the Spohn bushings... They are too soft so the bar is moving around on the mounts and bushings causing that clunking. If you want to test that, pull the Spohn and out your factory one back in for a couple days...
I have had a few conversations with Spohn about this, they are aware of it and say that it's the nature of the beast.
