Lowering my truck today. Need help.

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razor1

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check your sway bar bushing mounts, grease all 4 and then reinstall very tight .
 

moregrip

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If yours is doing what mine did, it's the Spohn bushings... They are too soft so the bar is moving around on the mounts and bushings causing that clunking. If you want to test that, pull the Spohn and out your factory one back in for a couple days...
I have had a few conversations with Spohn about this, they are aware of it and say that it's the nature of the beast.

As always, great source of information, thank you.

I'm not sure I'm understanding this but is the sphon bushing moving fwd/aft as the suspension cycles?
 
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Ak47bravo

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If yours is doing what mine did, it's the Spohn bushings... They are too soft so the bar is moving around on the mounts and bushings causing that clunking. If you want to test that, pull the Spohn and out your factory one back in for a couple days...
I have had a few conversations with Spohn about this, they are aware of it and say that it's the nature of the beast.


Well, as much as the noise would suck if it is a constant thing I guess it makes me feel better if it is purely just noise and not something breaking, coming loose, etc. (all though technically I guess it is caused by parts being loose.... in a sense) but so long as much suspension does not mess up and it is just audible annoyance then I am more ok with it.

Is it just me or does it seem the Spohn products (Upper/lower arms, and Panhard) all seem to have issues with the joints. What is the solution? It can not be this difficult to make joints function well and not make noise. What is the solution? A different type of joint? Or a better made Del-Sphere joint?
 

DavidRam

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As always, great source of information, thank you.

I'm not sure I'm understanding this but is the sphon bushing moving fwd/aft as the suspension cycles?


Thanks. I don't know how well I can explain this... Imagine if the bushing was too small and bar could pull back and forth... That is actually what is happening because the bushings are to soft.
It took me lots of trial and error to figure this out. First, I blamed the clunking on the Hellwig swaybar until I switched it out with the stock bar and the clunking was still there. Then I thought it must be the rear endlinks to the swaybar and I changed those out and the clunking was still there.

I don't know if the OP installed Hellwig swaybars yet, or I would say there could be some clunking between the front swaybar and endlinks... That was another source of noise I had to fix in my suspension, but that problem was more periodic and not necessarily related to hitting bumps, but rather when turning into a drive way at an angle, etc...
 
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Ak47bravo

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Thanks. I don't know how well I can explain this... Imagine if the bushing was too small and bar could pull back and forth... That is actually what is happening because the bushings are to soft.
It took me lots of trial and error to figure this out. First, I blamed the clunking on the Hellwig swaybar until I switched it out with the stock bar and the clunking was still there. Then I thought it must be the rear endlinks to the swaybar and I changed those out and the clunking was still there.

I don't know if the OP installed Hellwig swaybars yet, or I would say there could be some clunking between the front swaybar and endlinks... That was another source of noise I had to fix in my suspension, but that problem was more periodic and not necessarily related to hitting bumps, but rather when turning into a drive way at an angle, etc...


I have a stock front sway bar and I am running the shorter Moog F-150 sway bar end links for the front so the bar will sit parallel with the ground.

In regards to the rear I have the shorter sway bar end links that come in the Belltech 2/4 drop kit.

The sound definitely seems to be coming from the rear.
 

DavidRam

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Well, as much as the noise would suck if it is a constant thing I guess it makes me feel better if it is purely just noise and not something breaking, coming loose, etc. (all though technically I guess it is caused by parts being loose.... in a sense) but so long as much suspension does not mess up and it is just audible annoyance then I am more ok with it.

Is it just me or does it seem the Spohn products (Upper/lower arms, and Panhard) all seem to have issues with the joints. What is the solution? It can not be this difficult to make joints function well and not make noise. What is the solution? A different type of joint? Or a better made Del-Sphere joint?

It isn't a problem per say and Spohn says it's normal... I hate to tell you this, but at least in the case of my panhard bar, the movement and noise got louder as the bushings softened up... :(

For the panhard bar, a pair of good quality heim joints and a chromoly bar makes for a perfect solution. I made my own: http://www.ramforum.com/f39/custom_panhard_bar_made_all_good_stuff_;-69820/
I asked Spohn why they don't make the delrin bushings for the panhard bar and their answer was the lack of articulation (which of course is a valid reason).

For the control arms, I like the delrin ends better than the del-spere joints because there is no maintenance with the delrin and they are self lubricating so they don't need any lubricant... But the same lack of articulation is why you couldn't have delrin bushing on both ends. Once again, a pair of good heim joints and chromoly bars would make some damn good control arms, imho.

The above, is what Unbroken's R/T had (Richard if you are reading this, I apologize for posting one of your pics):
 

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moregrip

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Thanks. I don't know how well I can explain this... Imagine if the bushing was too small and bar could pull back and forth... That is actually what is happening because the bushings are to soft.
It took me lots of trial and error to figure this out. First, I blamed the clunking on the Hellwig swaybar until I switched it out with the stock bar and the clunking was still there. Then I thought it must be the rear endlinks to the swaybar and I changed those out and the clunking was still there.

I don't know if the OP installed Hellwig swaybars yet, or I would say there could be some clunking between the front swaybar and endlinks... That was another source of noise I had to fix in my suspension, but that problem was more periodic and not necessarily related to hitting bumps, but rather when turning into a drive way at an angle, etc...

got it! good job explaining......I thought they used urethane bushings in their panhard bar......urethane is pretty tough stuff......can you fit a washer in to tighten up clearances you think?
 

DavidRam

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I have a stock front sway bar and I am running the shorter Moog F-150 sway bar end links for the front so the bar will sit parallel with the ground.

In regards to the rear I have the shorter sway bar end links that come in the Belltech 2/4 drop kit.

The sound definitely seems to be coming from the rear.

You will be fine with those endlinks on the stock swaybars.
 

DavidRam

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got it! good job explaining......I thought they used urethane bushings in their panhard bar......urethane is pretty tough stuff......can you fit a washer in to tighten up clearances you think?

They are urethane, but it almost seems like they don't fit tight enough, or fill the opening enough... I don't know why they haven't fixed this issue, it seems simple to figure out different bushings that don't allow this movement.

The movement is side-to-side as the bar pulls and pushes at the joints, NOT front to back, so a washer would not make any difference. Maybe, using a thicker sleeve would tighten it up a bit, that would be the only potential solution I could think of...

After putting up with the noise for a couple months, I bought a second set of bushings from them and they were better for a couple weeks, but the clunking returned...
 
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Ak47bravo

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It isn't a problem per say and Spohn says it's normal... I hate to tell you this, but at least in the case of my panhard bar, the movement and noise got louder as the bushings softened up... :(

For the panhard bar, a pair of good quality heim joints and a chromoly bar makes for a perfect solution. I made my own: http://www.ramforum.com/f39/custom_panhard_bar_made_all_good_stuff_;-69820/
I asked Spohn why they don't make the delrin bushings for the panhard bar and their answer was the lack of articulation (which of course is a valid reason).

For the control arms, I like the delrin ends better than the del-spere joints because there is no maintenance with the delrin and they are self lubricating so they don't need any lubricant... But the same lack of articulation is why you couldn't have delrin bushing on both ends. Once again, a pair of good heim joints and chromoly bars would make some damn good control arms, imho.

The above, is what Unbroken's R/T had (Richard if you are reading this, I apologize for posting one of your pics):


It sounds like eventually I will end up trying to source custom control arms and custom panhard bar. How has your new panhard bar performed? Good? No noise?

The stock control arms have what kind of bushings? Rubber? Polyurethane? I mean, they have no articulation at all from what I remember.

When the rear end is lower do the control arms require more articulation? Or should the stock control arms have a different kind of joint as well and do not because well... they are stock and ****** (I guess for stock they perform the way they are supposed to? But for aggressive driving not so much?)
 

DavidRam

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It sounds like eventually I will end up trying to source custom control arms and custom panhard bar. How has your new panhard bar performed? Good? No noise?

The stock control arms have what kind of bushings? Rubber? Polyurethane? I mean, they have no articulation at all from what I remember.

When the rear end is lower do the control arms require more articulation? Or should the stock control arms have a different kind of joint as well and do not because well... they are stock and ****** (I guess for stock they perform the way they are supposed to? But for aggressive driving not so much?)

Fyi, I have since sold the truck... but the new track bar performed brilliantly! After I went through and fixed all my clunks and rattles the trucks suspension was quiet, smooth and precise like a sports car! Lol
Stock arms have rubber bushings which do allow some movement as they are softer than the urethane. But there is much more deflection with the stock arms, too.
I would imagine that a lowered vehicle would have less movement in the control arms because there is overall less movement in the suspension... The amount of articulation they would need is minimal compared to a lifted vehicle.

The stock control arms are made for longevity and to be quiet, comfortable and maintenance free. If you take a look at them, they are pretty crude, but they are just fine for what they were intended from the factory...
 
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moregrip

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They are urethane, but it almost seems like they don't fit tight enough, or fill the opening enough... I don't know why they haven't fixed this issue, it seems simple to figure out different bushings that don't allow this movement.

The movement is side-to-side as the bar pulls and pushes at the joints, NOT front to back, so a washer would not make any difference. Maybe, using a thicker sleeve would tighten it up a bit, that would be the only potential solution I could think of...

After putting up with the noise for a couple months, I bought a second set of bushings from them and they were better for a couple weeks, but the clunking returned...

understood :happy107:
 

adurm

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Before I got my pinion angle more dialed in, my driveshaft was doing the same thing. Rubbing on the heatshield by the gas tank.

Do you have adjustable arms? If not, I don't think you really would be able to do much for your pinion angle.

No adjustable arms. I didn't get much if any wobble from the angle. My poorly balanced tires provided sufficient shake instead. I've since brought it back to stock preparing for sale.
 
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Ak47bravo

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So I got the truck back from the shop. It feels pretty good. Feels more smooth.

There is a turn I could do around 50 mph stock and I took it today at 60 mph. Tires did feel like they were on edge of starting to squeal. They are also the stock tires which do not offer much grip.

I will say though I wish I had a 3" drop instead of a 4" drop.

1. To help prevent hitting the bump stops (which has happened a few times)

2. So that if I do have a small load in the truck it won't sit the rear lower than the front (which I think looks horrible)


I do want stiffer springs in the front but I do not know who makes any (I never confirmed from a post whether the GF 2" drop are stiffer than the B/T 2" drop)
 

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This is easy, I used a hole saw and bored a hole in the inner fender well to get a socket on the bolt and I cut an old wrench down to about 2" long for the back side, it took about 15 minutes.
 

DavidRam

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So I got the truck back from the shop. It feels pretty good. Feels more smooth.

There is a turn I could do around 50 mph stock and I took it today at 60 mph. Tires did feel like they were on edge of starting to squeal. They are also the stock tires which do not offer much grip.

I will say though I wish I had a 3" drop instead of a 4" drop.

1. To help prevent hitting the bump stops (which has happened a few times)

2. So that if I do have a small load in the truck it won't sit the rear lower than the front (which I think looks horrible)


I do want stiffer springs in the front but I do not know who makes any (I never confirmed from a post whether the GF 2" drop are stiffer than the B/T 2" drop)

You are right, the BT kit does almost ride on the bump stops, but you can get shorter bump stops, or cut down the ones you have now for a little more travel... Did you cut the cup off of the front?
 

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add airlift bags to the back , at 30 lbs of air you can pick up at least 1/2" of rear lift minimum. I pull a 18' Hewes redfish, it is a heavy boat, but does well on slower speed bumps.
 

rtorres51

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When you lower your truck, get some good handling tires. As soon as I lowered my truck, got rid of stock tires and got me some Falkens. Thats my preference. Ride is smooth and not so rough with the stock tires. I bought some SRT chrome rims and 275/55R/20 Falkens. Very pleased with ride. I have the Belltech 2/4 with the shocks.
 

moregrip

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so on a 2/4 drop it rides on the provided bump stops at all times?
 

razor1

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no, they are off centered because of the axle twist. The stops in the rear hit off center on the axle , almost missing completely.
 
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