performance oriented lowering springs

Of all the options available which are performance oriented?
Any coil-overs available?

None are really performance oriented unfortunately and no there are currently no coilovers available, at least none listed for the trucks. Now, I've been told that QA1 has a front coil over that will work with the 2wd trucks but nobody I know has been willing to fork over the $2K to find out. I have had better performance from the trimmed McGaughy's rear springs than I did with the Belltech ones but since mine is a 4wd I can't comment on the fronts simply because my only option is the Ground Force ones. The biggest increase I found in performance was going to a set of the dual adjustable QA1 rear shocks and a set of adjustable Rancho RS9000xl up front but a 2wd will benefit from the front QA1s.

charonblk07 said:

None are really performance oriented unfortunately and no there are currently no coilovers available, at least none listed for the trucks. Now, I've been told that QA1 has a front coil over that will work with the 2wd trucks but nobody I know has been willing to fork over the $2K to find out. I have had better performance from the trimmed McGaughy's rear springs than I did with the Belltech ones but since mine is a 4wd I can't comment on the fronts simply because my only option is the Ground Force ones. The biggest increase I found in performance was going to a set of the dual adjustable QA1 rear shocks and a set of adjustable Rancho RS9000xl up front but a 2wd will benefit from the front QA1s.

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Hey thanks for that info.

BREAK

ShockWaves :: 2009 and Up Dodge Ram - Shockwave Front System - HQ Series - RideTech.com - Suspension Specialist - Online Store

I saw on ridetechs website that they offer a airbag/shock combo similar to a coilover so that would lend me to believe they might have the geometry to make a coilover using already sourced parts. From what I've heard their FOX made HQ shocks are pretty decent. thoughts?

Have a look at what's required to install the shockwave bags, you have to take a chunk out of the frame to get them to fit but yes, it's easy to adapt a coil over if you make the upper bracket, you just need to determine weight handling, ride height, and required suspension travel; this is what we were doing with the lowered trucks before they had offerings from companies like QA1 and BellTech.


I'll also note that I've never had luck with performance handling when air bags are involved simply because they have more variables involved compared to springs. I used to have an air spring system on the rear of the truck but it quickly got changed out for a spring again because there was just too much variation in ride performance and it was even worse when I added in the auto ride level control that would try to level the truck in a hard turn at speed but wouldn't bleed it off fast enough as you left the apex and started reversing the body roll.

charonblk07 said:

Have a look at what's required to install the shockwave bags, you have to take a chunk out of the frame to get them to fit but yes, it's easy to adapt a coil over if you make the upper bracket, you just need to determine weight handling, ride height, and required suspension travel; this is what we were doing with the lowered trucks before they had offerings from companies like QA1 and BellTech.


I'll also note that I've never had luck with performance handling when air bags are involved simply because they have more variables involved compared to springs. I used to have an air spring system on the rear of the truck but it quickly got changed out for a spring again because there was just too much variation in ride performance and it was even worse when I added in the auto ride level control that would try to level the truck in a hard turn at speed but wouldn't bleed it off fast enough as you left the apex and started reversing the body roll.

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great points.....I'm wondering if a 2.5" coil spring would still require the frame notch......
from the expanded view drawing in the install instructions it looks like the upper and lower mounting points for the shockwave setup are stock type (but who knows/pictures don't always mean reality)

I sent them an email this morning....I'll report back

charonblk07 said:

None are really performance oriented unfortunately and no there are currently no coilovers available, at least none listed for the trucks. Now, I've been told that QA1 has a front coil over that will work with the 2wd trucks but nobody I know has been willing to fork over the $2K to find out. I have had better performance from the trimmed McGaughy's rear springs than I did with the Belltech ones but since mine is a 4wd I can't comment on the fronts simply because my only option is the Ground Force ones. The biggest increase I found in performance was going to a set of the dual adjustable QA1 rear shocks and a set of adjustable Rancho RS9000xl up front but a 2wd will benefit from the front QA1s.

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Which qa1 coil over are you referring to? I'm starting to plan my new front suspension, and I will be going with coil overs.

Hemi450hp said:

Which qa1 coil over are you referring to? I'm starting to plan my new front suspension, and I will be going with coil overs.

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The 2 people I've talked to about it have said the 501 PRO with a 600 or 650 spring rate would fit since they have a extended length of 15.0" and compressed length or 10.5". For just shocks if the truck is dropped 2" in the front on a 2wd you should be able to use the 507s which are a 14.4" ext and 9.4 comp so a stock ride or dropped 1" could use the 501s just fine. If you are dropped more then I would look at the 401 Pro series which have a 12.8 ext and 9.0 comp lengths. I don't have measurements of the 2wd shock lengths so I can't give you exact numbers but I'm going off what has been installed on other trucks currently. I also think a 2" front drop would probably land right between the two sizes I mentioned and a direct call to QA1 would be in order or just use one of their shock extensions


You'd also want to weigh the front end to get the appropriate spring rate between reg, quad, and crew cabs. If someone could get me a measure of their front end weight I could tell you which spring rate to get.


If I had a 2wd I'd personally be more interested in looking at a set of the Quad adjustable remote reservoir coilovers like the D4401 with a 9" spring length that can support a ride heights between 11.5" and 12.5" but it would all come down to individual trucks and what their ride height is. They would need an upper mount since I believe they are only available in a bearing mount but getting something made to either bolt or weld in to the spring pocket would improve handling greatly by removing the upper poly bushings.

I'll try to get my truck on the scale at the rice dryer. This is something i have been looking into and doing more research on different coil overs and a-arms and mounting and such. Unfortunately this os not something i will be taking the plung on soon to help anyone out. I am still looking for CAD drawings and dimensions of the frame and suspension components to engineer stuff in CAD before i move to the fab world.

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update: have not heard back anything on this, maybe after the first of the year

Yeah, I am beyond swamped between firetruck maintenance at the fire house, have a bunch of big projects at work, the holidays, and mostly the GF and baby... Haven't had a chance to go play at the scale to see how much the truck weighs, and weight on each axle.

I'm also trying to track down some people's in the world of racing I know that have a portable scale system to find out weight on each tire... if I can't find them I'm going to hit up a few DOT buddies.. just haven't had much chance to have the time to do it once I ask the question

Just traded my '14 to the dealer as a lowered truck- minus the QA1's and engine bolt-ons, and ordered a '16 2wd Quad cab. Really interested to see where this goes since the new truck will be lowered as well. I definitely believe that a stiffer non-progressive spring would be a step in the right direction. The Airlift 1000's help stiffening the rear lowering springs, but are just too bouncy when running around empty.

After talking to QA1 for a while, I've decided to try other shops. Penske says that they can build a custom front coilover to work with the stock mounts with a double adjustable setup and springs to match. Cost should be around $650 per coilover.
Does anyone have any plans to redo the front geometry with a raised UCA mount or a shorter spindle?

coolbrzblu said:

After talking to QA1 for a while, I've decided to try other shops. Penske says that they can build a custom front coilover to work with the stock mounts with a double adjustable setup and springs to match. Cost should be around $650 per coilover.
Does anyone have any plans to redo the front geometry with a raised UCA mount or a shorter spindle?

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Plans as in know a company??? Once I get my shop up at my house I plan to look into a front end redesign and also revised rear control arm brackets to relocate the upper and lower arms to be back to parallel for better handling.
But its months before I will even be there with my shop.. haven;t even ordered or broke ground yet

coolbrzblu said:

After talking to QA1 for a while, I've decided to try other shops. Penske says that they can build a custom front coilover to work with the stock mounts with a double adjustable setup and springs to match. Cost should be around $650 per coilover.

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I would be game for the stock mount Penske coilovers; are you going to pull the trigger?

Thinking about it.. Seems like the best option so far, but the front geometry still needs to be fixed so I want to actually talk to a suspension/chassis shop about modifying the front and rear geometry first.
Unless someone has a better idea.

I am converting to coilovers right now on the rear of my regular cab. We are ditching the rear swaybar and panhard bar in order to mount the coilovers on the back of the rear axle. All crossmembers have been cut out and are being replaced with chromoly tubing. We are also adding a rear driveshaft loop to 1 of the rear crossmembers while we are in there.

Modifying the front to fit an off the shelf coilover doesn't look hard at all, but I'm not going to mess with the front until I find a way to remove a substantial amount of weight while doing it.

I will post pics of the rear coilover setup later this week.

Any updates?

The biggest issue with the available lowering springs is the spring rate.

For instance, the Belltech springs are physically shorter than the stock springs, but the spring rate is about what the stock ones are. It may even be lower. This is the exact opposite of what you want.

Basically, the % amount that you reduce your suspension travel by needs to equal the % increase in your spring rate. So if you reduce your suspension travel by 50%, you need a 50% increase in your spring rate.

To my knowledge, no one makes a lowering spring with a higher spring rate.

It's possible that you may be able to get some heavy duty springs like from a 2500 or an aftermarket source and cut them down to length to lower the truck, but I can't say for sure.

If the OP is looking for a firmer, more responsive, performance oriented ride- the QA1 shocks definitely provide that.
I just took my Belltech lowered '14 back to the dealer last night and as per our trade agreement, had swapped out the QA1's for virtually new Belltech SP shocks- immediately felt a noticeable difference.
The Belltech shocks are much a softer, closer to stock ride
The QA1's gave a much firmer more sports car like ride, I couldn't believe the difference
I drove the truck around a little before it went back and found myself not as confident with the handling of the truck with just the shocks changed- and that's driving within the speed limit. With the QA1's the weak link in my truck was the tires. With the Belltech shocks, I wasn't comfortable pushing the truck anywhere near the tires limits...
Incidentally both front and back shocks were set at 7 on a scale of 16
Ultimately the point of my comment to the OP- you can get more performance/stability with any of the coil spring drop kits with just upgrading to a better adjustable shock- at the expense of ride quality
Like driving on a skateboard....