14 Sport Bilstein 2.1 and no ball joint issue

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11BPSMIKE

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Got my Bilsteins installed this week and the uppers are fine, total strut length is about a 1/2 inch different. I gained 2.25 from the 2.1 setting and alignment went into spec no problem. Ride is a bit stiffer but feels good. Truck is much more difficult to get into now but it looks awesome. Very happy with this setup and I can't see having any upper arm issues.
 

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MiRamDriver

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So you installed them TWO DAYS AGO, and you're declaring no issues? Posts like this are what spread misinformation. Put a few thousand miles on the truck and then post - as guys with them set as low as 1.3" DID have their ball joints pop. I'd agree that it's not going to happen immediately but I have a feeling that you'll be posting a thread asking about UCA's here in a couple of months.
 
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11BPSMIKE

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I'm a licensed tech and I can't put the joints in a binding situation. Total strut length is what is causing the issue and this setup maintains similar to stock. I have looked at many with spacers and they all popped after instalation.
 

Pigeonman

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Stance looks nice. Hopefully you manage to avoid the ball joint issue. I'm not willing to take the chance right now. Can't afford to pay if I play rig now....


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scubasteege

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Looks good. I will hopefully get my shocks put on once they get off back order. I already have my zone uca's.
 

h2oman

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Hope all goes well for you. Way too early to tell. Truck looks good though.
 

tripower

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I'm a licensed tech and I can't put the joints in a binding situation. Total strut length is what is causing the issue and this setup maintains similar to stock. I have looked at many with spacers and they all popped after instalation.

I performed the same checks and I totally agree with you. Spacers are definitely a problem, incorrect installation is a problem, but Bilsteins or Ranchos installed correctly aren't. Been trying to tell these guys for a while - but there are so many armchair quarterbacks on these forums.

In the end they will see the light... I hope!
 

tripower

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So you installed them TWO DAYS AGO, and you're declaring no issues? Posts like this are what spread misinformation. Put a few thousand miles on the truck and then post - as guys with them set as low as 1.3" DID have their ball joints pop. I'd agree that it's not going to happen immediately but I have a feeling that you'll be posting a thread asking about UCA's here in a couple of months.

Can you point us to this popped ball joint at 1.3"? I've only seen one report, and his popped at installation time, which isn't the same problem at all. You can't jack the strut into place with the upper ball joint attached - if you do, you will break it.
 

MiRamDriver

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Can you point us to this popped ball joint at 1.3"? I've only seen one report, and his popped at installation time, which isn't the same problem at all. You can't jack the strut into place with the upper ball joint attached - if you do, you will break it.

You're generalizing to make your argument - you posted in that thread as well (His forum name is DJeazie). How do to KNOW that it isn't the same problem? We don't - you think you do but you don't; you're correct it could be installation error or he could've just had a really weak set of factory UCA's, or a bunch of other variables.

The point here is that there have been a number reports of Bilsteins popping upper ball joints on this forum and others. I don't think that they're all completing installation wrong. Zone's engineer whom I spoke with told me any lift (without drop - such as a level) in excess of 1" will eventually cause failure in the ball joint. Did you do the extensive testing that they did and not tell anyone? Numbers don't lie. As I said earlier, I suspect there will be several people that have argued over this on the forum asking about UCA's or quietly purchasing them down the road. I have no dog in this fight, I install all of my own stuff and have my Bilstein's set to 0.7" atop 4" of suspension lift (which drops components 6") - this issue doesn't even affect me. I am just annoyed at people jeopardizing the safety of others on the road because they apparently can afford a $30-$50k truck but whine about $420.

With the Bilsteins you are eliminating excessive down travel which certainly can damage the upper ball joint. But you are still lifting the front of the truck, even if it is in a more effective way; thus resulting in the upper control arm moving lower than it's original position and the ball joint shank moving to an extreme angle. Most guys were popping ball joints driving on normal roads, what do you think is going to happen when you head off-road and your suspension bottoms out on down travel? Yes a better scenario than with spacer blocks, I'm not arguing that - but you're probably going to make contact between the ball joint shank and housing, thus popping the ball joint.

Lastly, in regards to jacking the strut into place with the ball joint attached. I agree that it could cause damage but the ball joint shank would be pushed toward the center of the truck rather than toward the outside, which would cause the back side to pop - not the same thing. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong or not understanding your statement properly.
 
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Shawn226

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I don't wish to stir the pot any, but here's the deal, everyone has their own beliefs, experiences, certifications, degrees, etc. My ball joints are stressed differently from yours along with the miles put on. Just don't attack other members of their statements. We are a family.
 

MiRamDriver

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I don't wish to stir the pot any, but here's the deal, everyone has their own beliefs, experiences, certifications, degrees, etc. My ball joints are stressed differently from yours along with the miles put on. Just don't attack other members of their statements. We are a family.

Totally agreed. I don't see where anyone was personally attacked though...? All I see is gainful and technical discussion.
 

tripower

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You're generalizing to make your argument - you posted in that thread as well (His forum name is DJeazie). How do to KNOW that it isn't the same problem? We don't - you think you do but you don't; you're correct it could be installation error or he could've just had a really weak set of factory UCA's, or a bunch of other variables.

The point here is that there have been a number reports of Bilsteins popping upper ball joints on this forum and others. I don't think that they're all completing installation wrong. Zone's engineer whom I spoke with told me any lift (without drop - such as a level) in excess of 1" will eventually cause failure in the ball joint. Did you do the extensive testing that they did and not tell anyone? Numbers don't lie. As I said earlier, I suspect there will be several people that have argued over this on the forum asking about UCA's or quietly purchasing them down the road. I have no dog in this fight, I install all of my own stuff and have my Bilstein's set to 0.7" atop 4" of suspension lift (which drops components 6") - this issue doesn't even affect me. I am just annoyed at people jeopardizing the safety of others on the road because they apparently can afford a $30-$50k truck but whine about $420.

With the Bilsteins you are eliminating excessive down travel which certainly can damage the upper ball joint. But you are still lifting the front of the truck, even if it is in a more effective way; thus resulting in the upper control arm moving lower than it's original position and the ball joint shank moving to an extreme angle. Most guys were popping ball joints driving on normal roads, what do you think is going to happen when you head off-road and your suspension bottoms out on down travel? Yes a better scenario than with spacer blocks, I'm not arguing that - but you're probably going to make contact between the ball joint shank and housing, thus popping the ball joint.

Lastly, in regards to jacking the strut into place with the ball joint attached. I agree that it could cause damage but the ball joint shank would be pushed toward the center of the truck rather than toward the outside, which would cause the back side to pop - not the same thing. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong or not understanding your statement properly.

You've made some fair points, but some of it doesn't jive with what I've measured in person. I certainly want everyone to be safe, and at least for me it's not about 400 bucks either. It's about understanding the problem and finding the correct solution, even if that goes against the herd. Any average person in the US with motivation can afford a Ram and parts for it - they're pretty cheap overall.

You mentioned a number of failures reported, and that's exactly what I'm looking for. So far, every time I ask for details, they don't surface. In fact, I still can't find one confirmed report of it happening with an otherwise stock truck and correct installation. But I'm still looking.... and if it does start happening I'll drink the Cool-aid.

You are right that one report of this problem occurring is confirmed to have happened during installation, not on the road because of overextension. So we don't know for sure what happened with that one truck, the owner didn't respond to the question, but it does seem likely...

Lastly, in regard to Zone's statement - Raising the truck just means it's resting at a different spot within the suspension's travel - as long as you don't exceed top and/or bottom limits at any time, there's no issue with the ball joints. Any method that moves the upper or lower limits is a potential problem. But I can see why Zone would say something like that - they just care that the 'average' lift out there is going to cause the issue without getting into specifics about one brand vs another. Such a discussion requires lots of detail - shock installed length, top extension, bottom extension, spring preload, etc. If you don't address each point it's not a very thorough examination. Kinda like the doctor saying your healthy before he checks your blood pressure or takes your temperature.
 

Shawn226

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I just want to point out for arguments sake, that my ram is a 2013, I had a 2.5" daystar level kit and rode it for 15k miles with no ball joint issues. I don't remember which model years were having issues, but anyhow, mines a mall crawler. The most off road it does is picking up a deer in a field. Could I be one of the lucky ones? Maybe, but it seems that unless you devote a thread to specific UCA ball joint issues with lifts levels etc, and people thoroughly document what happened with which application and setting, it's all going to be he said she said..
 

MiRamDriver

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Maybe, but it seems that unless you devote a thread to specific UCA ball joint issues with lifts levels etc, and people thoroughly document what happened with which application and setting, it's all going to be he said she said..

Couldn't agree more.

I agree with mostly what Tripower said above and it comes down to installing a spacer and a set of bilsteins on two separate but otherwise equal trucks and taking measurements to determine what exactly the differences are and if theoretically the ball joints should have issues. All that said, issues have been reported with both methods of leveling.

To me, from the time I've spent reading this forum and others - it seems highly likely that with any sort of level on a 2013/2014, you will experience a ball joint failure eventually. I think Tripower and I are of similar mindsets, we just both slightly error on a different side of the fence, myself on the side of caution and him with the requirement of unquestionable proof.
 

Shawn226

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Another thing to think about, is our trucks were designed to be kept how they came out of the factory, so if someone spend the time to engineer a new UCA to combat the problems additional suspension height would cause, then it's probably for good reason. Now with that being said, i ran 2.5" on stock spindles with no ball joint issues, so theoretically if I ran bilsteins at 2.1 on my rcx then the stock UCA's wouldn't be stressed any more then they previously were, if that thought process makes sense, so again, it's going to be tough to say for each and every truck.


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MiRamDriver

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Another thing to think about, is our trucks were designed to be kept how they came out of the factory, so if someone spend the time to engineer a new UCA to combat the problems additional suspension height would cause, then it's probably for good reason. Now with that being said, i ran 2.5" on stock spindles with no ball joint issues, so theoretically if I ran bilsteins at 2.1 on my rcx then the stock UCA's wouldn't be stressed any more then they previously were, if that thought process makes sense, so again, it's going to be tough to say for each and every truck.


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When was your 2013 made? There was one guy with a very early 2013 running spacers without issue in another older thread.
 
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