AWD Lift Question

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TJRam

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My profile pic is of a truck that I'm about to drop the hammer on later this week. It's a 2016 bighorn 5.7l 8 speed with 19k miles.

The 4wd selection has a 4wd Auto option. I've been looking at lift kits and they say not recommended for AWD trucks. Is the 4wd Auto the AWD I've been hearing about? I've been searching for a clear answer, but have not been able to find one.

If I am not able to lift this truck in the future, then I may have to reconsider my purchase and find a Ram 1500 with a different transfer case since I plan on keeping it for many years to come. I'm not the type to trade in every couple of years. Thanks.


e. Also I've seen people comment on difficulty regearing these trucks. Is there anything weird about them that makes them a pain in the ass? 3.21 would suck with 35's, so I may look for a regear in the future with a limited slip in the rear. Also considering buying a 2015 tradesman without the 4wd auto and a lower gear ratio. It's just not as nice all around. Either way I'll have a new Ram soon.
 

Iggy4935

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My profile pic is of a truck that I'm about to drop the hammer on later this week. It's a 2016 bighorn 5.7l 8 speed with 19k miles.

The 4wd selection has a 4wd Auto option. I've been looking at lift kits and they say not recommended for AWD trucks. Is the 4wd Auto the AWD I've been hearing about? I've been searching for a clear answer, but have not been able to find one.

If I am not able to lift this truck in the future, then I may have to reconsider my purchase and find a Ram 1500 with a different transfer case since I plan on keeping it for many years to come. I'm not the type to trade in every couple of years. Thanks.


e. Also I've seen people comment on difficulty regearing these trucks. Is there anything weird about them that makes them a pain in the ass? 3.21 would suck with 35's, so I may look for a regear in the future with a limited slip in the rear. Also considering buying a 2015 tradesman without the 4wd auto and a lower gear ratio. It's just not as nice all around. Either way I'll have a new Ram soon.



The auto 4x4 is just that. Automatic. When the system notices the rear tires spin it will automatically engage 4 wheel drive so you don't have to push the button yourself. I'm pretty sure that shouldn't matter when it comes to a lift.


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crash68

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I've seen people comment on difficulty regearing these trucks. Is there anything weird about them that makes them a pain in the ass? 3.21 would suck with 35's, so I may look for a regear in the future with a limited slip in the rear. Also considering buying a 2015 tradesman without the 4wd auto and a lower gear ratio.

In a nut shell, to re-gear the the front differential, your looking at replacing the entire carrier. IIRC, someone posted about re-gearing, it cost them just north of $2500. Including the OEM, there is about three LSD units for the rear end.
If you plan on running a lot of off-roading in mud, snow and sand, the 44-45 part-time transfer case will be the better choice. The 44-44 full-time transfer case has the "Auto 4X4" button and has less than enthusiastic reviews from some users.
 
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TJRam

TJRam

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In a nut shell, to re-gear the the front differential, your looking at replacing the entire carrier. IIRC, someone posted about re-gearing, it cost them just north of $2500. Including the OEM, there is about three LSD units for the rear end.
If you plan on running a lot of off-roading in mud, snow and sand, the 44-45 part-time transfer case will be the better choice. The 44-44 full-time transfer case has the "Auto 4X4" button and has less than enthusiastic reviews from some users.

Oh wow, thanks for the heads up! Just saw some videos, and that does not look good at all.
 

bubbagumpshrimp

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On the gearing dilemma...I had the same question prior to purchasing my 2016 Ram 1500 Big Horn with 14k miles last month. At the end of the day...for me...the factory 3.21 gearing works just fine. I'm not going to lift my truck and I'm not going to put 35's on it.

If you don't need the power drivers seat (it was a requirement for me) just get an Express package truck. You'll save a few bucks and you can easily find one with the 3.91 gearing and the anti-slip"/LSD rear end.

If you're already leaning towards lifting and going with bigger tires, it just makes more sense (financially) to get a truck that already comes setup with the gearing that you're going to want.

Edit: For what it's worth though...this truck ('16 CPO Bighorn w/5.7 with 3.21 gear) is a great truck for the money. It doesn't have every bell and whistle, but it has what I need and it's a blast to drive.
 
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TJRam

TJRam

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What lift are you looking at?

There is no real truck that is AWD (the Honda Ridgeline is not a real truck)

Auto 4wd is not the same as AWD.

If it has to sense slippage in the front to send power to the front then it is AWD. That is how most AWD's work, except for a select few like Subaru. Usually they are front while drive and send power to the rear when they sense slippage.
 

WilliamS

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I have the same transfer case, as well millions of other Rams so dont let 10 youtube videos steer you down a dark hateful path. It does great for many member, in fact there was a thread about it a month ago.

As for the lift being non AWD dont worry about that. Ram doesnt make a full time all wheel drive anymore. Im sure if you have a pinion angle wrong you will be hating life as it will wear out or bind. There are a ton of lifted (4x4 Auto) trucks out there. Make it big, have fun.
 
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TJRam

TJRam

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Well it's not just that it's not recommended for use with suspension lifts. Now I find out it is AWD no matter if you fully "lock"(it doesn't really lock) it. That is garbage. I need a truck that is locked from a dead stop, not digging more of a hole in the rear before it might decide to engage the front. I can't trust a truck like that up in the mountains here.

I'll be on the lookout for a Ram with the BW4445 transfer case and lower gears. Thanks for the input guys. Saved me from a major buyers remorse.
 

WilliamS

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I can tell you in sand, I dont dig in 4auto I just go.
 

bubbagumpshrimp

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I've used it in snow and haven't had an issue with it. The "feel" of it is similar to the Expedition I had years ago with the 4auto t-case. That is to say that there's not much delay between rear wheel slippage and the front tires hooking up and the truck taking off.

On the transfer case...that was another thing that I went back and forth on prior to buying (I saw the 4auto complaint thread). Keep in mind that people complain about things online for any number of reasons. That and for every complaint you read about this transfer case here, there's a few thousand people driving around without an issue.

I REALLY like my truck. That being said... it's not something that I would want to go rag on off-road (real off-road...not fire trails/roads). It's just not made for that. Just go get a Toyota Tacoma TRD Pro with the locking differentials and be done with it. It comes with good suspension, tires, gearing, etc.

This coming from someone that's ragged on their share of vehicles off-road (ex. Land Cruiser, Wrangler, and Cherokee/XJ). If you want something to beat the **** out of...go get something that was made to have the **** beaten out of it (Tacoma).
 
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TJRam

TJRam

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We can tell you are new and highly uneducated how a truck works.

First, the truck is rear wheel drive.
Second, 4auto is rear wheel drive until the rear wheels slip.
Third, 4high is locked 4 wheel drive all the time.
Fourth, 4low is locked 4 wheel drive in low gear all the time.

This is a truck, not a car.

I admit I'm new to this particular transfer case, but many on this very site have said that it does not lock in 4high or 4low until there is slippage.

As for other vehicles or experience, I'm a heavy equipment mechanic, currently have a 98 TJ, 2001 XJ, and have had a couple broncos and 70s era Fords. If this BW4444 truly does lock then great, but if it waits for slippage to engage then it is AWD crossover garbage. But as many others have said on this very site, and has been displayed in many youtube videos, it does not LOCK. Maybe they are all wrong, who knows. I guess I'll have to call BW to get a straight answer.
 

bubbagumpshrimp

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4auto waits for slippage.
4high, 4low is locked all the time.

That is how all modern truck transfer cases work.

If you like the Subaru, why are you looking at a truck?

What he's referencing...and I've read people post here too...is that the 4auto t-case does not lock in 4high or 4low.

People (whether correct or incorrect) say that the 4auto t-case does the same "wait for slippage" thing in 4high and 4low that it does in 4auto.
 

bubbagumpshrimp

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This is contrary to video evidence and the testimonials of many members on this site.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qSYOhDuo5I

Again, maybe they are all liars or it is some grand conspiracy. Apparently the aftermarket community is in on it as well.


That truck looks like it is high centered on the rear differential.

4WD with open differentials supplies power to both the front and the rear axles. Now remember, we have open differentials, so power is being supplied to the wheels with the least resistance. In 4WD, that means 3WD or 2WD when tires lose traction. However, 4WD is still a very effective off-road combination. With the right driver, a no-locker or open differential Jeep is still a largely capable vehicle that can often clear a steep obstacle just fine.

This is something that people apparently don't get with these trucks. The transfer case is "locked" into 4high and 4low...but these trucks do NOT have locking differentials. If you get high centered or encounter a situation where one or more tires lose traction...that's where the power is going.

Edit: And that's what happens with literally every 4wd that I've ever driven, with the exception of my Land Cruiser (front, rear, and center diff lock) and TJ Rubicon (front and rear lockers)
 
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TJRam

TJRam

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That truck is high centered on the rear differential.



This is something that people apparently don't get with these trucks. It is "locked" into 4high and 4low...but these trucks do NOT have lockers. If you get high centered or encounter a situation where one or more tires lose traction...that's where the power is going.

Neither of these are reasons for 1 front wheel not receiving power.

A normal open differential truck locked in 4wd will provide power to 1 wheel in the rear and 1 in the front which differentiates power to the wheel with the least resistance on each axle. It doesn't matter if the whole truck is high centered. You can put a truck on a lift and observe this. You can hold a tire and the other will get the power. But either way there should be 1 wheel in the rear and 1 in the front receiving power at all times when locked in 4wd. This is basic high school shop class.

e. Many videos showing this in detail https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dh0VQxprJA Time stamp 2:15

Trust me, I understand how open differentials, limited slips, and various detroit style, air, cable and hydraulic lockers work.
 
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TJRam

TJRam

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Good for you.

Why are you here? Go to a Jeep forum.

You haven't even said what lift you are thinking about?

It's irrelevant. Every suspension lift I've seen barring spacers is not recommended for use with AWD Rams. Getting a Ram with the BW4445 is what I'm going to do.

If the BW4444 works for you then that's great. It's just not for me, and that's fine.
 
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TJRam

TJRam

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What exactly are they saying then when they say under the notes for their lifts that they are not recommended for AWD Rams? Is that a typo? Did two separate manufacturers make the same typo? Are they claiming there are no AWD Rams when there isn't any? Is there not a BW4444 transfer case with an AWD setting?

The bilsteins lift the truck in a similar fashion as the spacers, so of course they would work. The lifts that include diff drop brackets are the ones not available for AWD Rams. Look man, I can't hold your hand through all of this. Take some time, be objective and spend some time reading up on your investment.

Really it blows my mind the level of cognitive dissonance found on boards filled with do no wrong brand loyalty.
 

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If it has to sense slippage in the front to send power to the front then it is AWD. That is how most AWD's work, except for a select few like Subaru. Usually they are front while drive and send power to the rear when they sense slippage.



No no no
Auto 4wd is not AWD. Auto 4WD can simply detect slippage in rear and allow the front to be engaged. It does not transfer from slipping wheel to the gripping wheel like AWD. Subaru is famous because they used to offer exclusively 50/50 split AWD in all models. I think they have gone to some other combos now like 60/40 too but could be wrong. An AWD system is amazing on ice and reasonable depth snow. 4WD with limited slip or even better a locker will be better for crawling and really tough going but not likely as good on ice. Auto 4WD is pretty bad for slippery conditions because there is delay before it engages and depending on your gear setup (mine is 4.56) the wheels are already broke loose and causing fish tailing before it even kicks in. Might be okay with lesser gears since tires cannot break loose as easy but then again might be worse. Not sure but auto sucks compared to AWD I have had in Durango and Journey for that matter.
 

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