Bil's 5100 and rattle/noise/rough ride

JB1 said:

oh ok, how long of a drive is it to this shop?....might need a tow

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30 miles. Thing is I don't want to take it back there at all. At this point I don't trust him to touch my truck at all but I don't want to pay another shop to fix his F up

And shouldn't there be a small spring above or below the washer, depending on if it's installed correctly or not?

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BigRed4x4 said:

30 miles. Thing is I don't want to take it back there at all. At this point I don't trust him to touch my truck at all but I don't want to pay another shop to fix his F up

And shouldn't there be a small spring above or below the washer, depending on if it's installed correctly or not?

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I've had mine apart more times then I care to admit. If I were you my main concern would be damage to the Top Plate\Coil Seat. Luckily they don't break the bank when it comes to replacing them, but I fully understand it's a cost that you shouldn't have to foot the bill for!

I replaced mine this last time I did my bils because my last set of Bils had a strut noise when going over small bumps even with the washer installed correctly. I replaced the top plate and coil seat and my strut noise disappeared, but new ones were uncovered.

My truck has 97k on it. When I was set at 2.1 my front measured 40 1/4. Most guys couldn't believe mine measured that high, and thought I had to be at 2.8", which I was not. I took mine to a guy that does lift's and his diagnosis was that everything seemed pretty strained 2.1 and suggested I drop to 1.4. I dropped it to 1.4 and most my noises were gone. However, when my wrench was investigating my noises he suggested that I replace my Lower Ball Joints as well as all my Lower Control Arm Bushings. It goes in Tuesday to have this work done. Unfortunately it's going to cost damn near $1000 to replace the LCA's and have it aligned. Hopefully it fixes any remaining noises that I have.

Just learn from my mistakes. Another local wrench had stated my previous strut noise was because of Lower Strut Bolt Bushings. At that time I asked if I should do my entire LCA and they talked me out of it. So I spent $350 8 months ago, and here I am 8 months later and I am replacing the entire LCA. Nothing like throwing $350 out the window. If your Lower ball Joints are bad I would think seriously about replacing the entire LCA's and not just the ball joint.

Just my two cents!

Good Luck!

JB1 said:

oh ok, how long of a drive is it to this shop?....might need a tow because that means the shock has breached thru the top strut mount center hole and the top will need to be replaced. If you can find a small mirror and try and angle it so you can see down in the top hole of the one that's not pushed thru to verify if washer is on top (I bet it is) then that side will bust thru soon too. I would make them replace both tops, maybe even ask for new struts as well.

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Got a mirror out and yep the washer is in top of the side that hasn't breached but more concerning is that there isn't that little spring on either side...


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JB1 said:

oh ok, how long of a drive is it to this shop?....might need a tow because that means the shock has breached thru the top strut mount center hole and the top will need to be replaced. If you can find a small mirror and try and angle it so you can see down in the top hole of the one that's not pushed thru to verify if washer is on top (I bet it is) then that side will bust thru soon too. I would make them replace both tops, maybe even ask for new struts as well.

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Dropped it off this morning and he said at minimum the top strut mount will need to be replaced but he'd know more once he got the truck on the lift. I told him he needs to fix both sides...

I tried not to be ****, my truck is now in his hands, so I thought it'd be better to stay as calm as possibly but the tone in my voice increased after he told me that he put the strut together the same way it came a part as we are looking at the problem. I pointed out the missing spring and that the nut and washer are together which is the opposite of correct and he and I had gone over that during the original install.

Waiting on his call but it may not be until Wednesday...

BigRed4x4 said:

Dropped it off this morning and he said at minimum the top strut mount will need to be replaced but he'd know more once he got the truck on the lift. I told him he needs to fix both sides...

I tried not to be ****, my truck is now in his hands, so I thought it'd be better to stay as calm as possibly but the tone in my voice increased after he told me that he put the strut together the same way it came a part as we are looking at the problem. I pointed out the missing spring and that the nut and washer are together which is the opposite of correct and he and I had gone over that during the original install.

Waiting on his call but it may not be until Wednesday...

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I agree nothing good comes from being mad, hopefully they fix it right this time. When you get it back look with a mirror again.

Show them the installation instructions that came with the Bilstien's 5100s .......I'll post that up for you in a moment .

Trust me gents , you're better off doing this install yourself ....it's simple .
Most ..." Professional shops " screw this up ? ?

Anyway here's the install that clearly states how & where to install the washer and the proper tq values .



And here's a link to my install , some good tips there .


http://www.ramforum.com/showthread.php?p=1206420

Hope this helps !

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BigRed4x4 said:

Got a mirror out and yep the washer is in top of the side that hasn't breached but more concerning is that there isn't that little spring on either side...


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What little spring are you referencing?
The only "spring" that I can think of is the coil itself. From bottom to top it goes, Circlip in groove, Spring Seat Adapter, OEM Spring Seat, Compressed Coil, bump stop, washer on Piston Rod, top spring seat, dust cover, top plate with bushing, nut in bushing, tighten down nut, and decompress spring, and you're done.

Sorry I am not following you on the missing little spring on each side comment?

2k9ram said:

What little spring are you referencing?

The only "spring" that I can think of is the coil itself. From bottom to top it goes, Circlip in groove, Spring Seat Adapter, OEM Spring Seat, Compressed Coil, bump stop, washer on Piston Rod, top spring seat, dust cover, top plate with bushing, nut in bushing, tighten down nut, and decompress spring, and you're done.



Sorry I am not following you on the missing little spring on each side comment?

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You're right, I was thinking the spring seat. I'm a total novice at this stuff. From the picture can you tell if it was assembled correctly? It appears to me that the washer was installed on top of the spring seat, touching the nut which could be a cause of my issue? Isn't there something that goes between the washer and nut? I'm expecting a call from the shop tomorrow and expecting to hear that it was installed correct and I'm on the hook for it so I need my ducks in order.
Thanks


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2k9ram said:

What little spring are you referencing?
The only "spring" that I can think of is the coil itself. From bottom to top it goes, Circlip in groove, Spring Seat Adapter, OEM Spring Seat, Compressed Coil, bump stop, washer on Piston Rod, top spring seat, dust cover, top plate with bushing, nut in bushing, tighten down nut, and decompress spring, and you're done.

Sorry I am not following you on the missing little spring on each side comment?

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I agree not sure on the little spring referenced ?

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BigRed4x4 said:

You're right, I was thinking the spring seat. I'm a total novice at this stuff. From the picture can you tell if it was assembled correctly? It appears to me that the washer was installed on top of the spring seat, touching the nut which could be a cause of my issue? Isn't there something that goes between the washer and nut? I'm expecting a call from the shop tomorrow and expecting to hear that it was installed correct and I'm on the hook for it so I need my ducks in order.
Thanks


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No way it was installed correctly ..... show them this ....



Read the notes !

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BigRed4x4 said:

You're right, I was thinking the spring seat. I'm a total novice at this stuff. From the picture above can you tell if it was assembled correctly? It appears to me that the washer was installed on top of the spring seat, touching the nut which could be a cause of my issue? I'm expecting a call from the shop tomorrow and expecting to hear that it was installed correct so I need my ducks in order.
Thanks


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I would say you are spot on. The one picture where the piston rod is pushed through the strut housing assembly it clearly looks to me that they were assembled incorrectly and you are spot on when you say that the washer was installed incorrectly. If they did the one incorrectly I would be willing to be they did the other the exact same way.

I made that mistake the very first time I installed the Bils on my truck. Took it for a test drive, knew something wasn't right, posted in the forums, realized I was an idiot and made the common mistake of putting the washer directly under the nut. So ripped them all back apart and did them a second time. Fun times!

If memory serves me correctly when I disassembled the factory struts there was a washer under the nut. So your shop is not wrong in saying they assembled them the same as the factory came apart. Unfortunately, in doing so they did it wrong. Per the instructions that came with the shocks.

I would be requesting that they replace the Top Mounting Plate and Bushing. If you can trust them I would also ask them to inspect all your Lower Control arm Bushings and Ball Joints. Mine is in the shop tomorrow having them all replaced with 97k miles on them. Hate for them to put it all back together, perform another alignment, and then you find out some of your noises were also because of LCA bushings and lower ball joints.

2k9ram said:

I would say you are spot on. The one picture where the piston rod is pushed through the strut housing assembly it clearly looks to me that they were assembled incorrectly and you are spot on when you say that the washer was installed incorrectly. If they did the one incorrectly I would be willing to be they did the other the exact same way.



I made that mistake the very first time I installed the Bils on my truck. Took it for a test drive, knew something wasn't right, posted in the forums, realized I was an idiot and made the common mistake of putting the washer directly under the nut. So ripped them all back apart and did them a second time. Fun times!



If memory serves me correctly when I disassembled the factory struts there was a washer under the nut. So your shop is not wrong in saying they assembled them the same as the factory came apart. Unfortunately, in doing so they did it wrong. Per the instructions that came with the shocks.



I would be requesting that they replace the Top Mounting Plate and Bushing. If you can trust them I would also ask them to inspect all your Lower Control arm Bushings and Ball Joints. Mine is in the shop tomorrow having them all replaced with 97k miles on them. Hate for them to put it all back together, perform another alignment, and then you find out some of your noises were also because of LCA bushings and lower ball joints.

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Trust is wearing very thin with this shop. I don't no plan use them in the future but totally get what you're saying since it's already a part.
Thanks for the help, I'm anxiously awaiting his call how how this is going to play out.


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The washer supplied with the bilsteins 5100s goes on below the threaded portion of the shocks piston against the bare cylinder .... it goes there because the pistons O.D. ( Outside Diameter ) is a bit smaller than the OEM shocks O.D. ; therefore, providing the proper amount of support required for the OEM hat /dust cover . If the washer is not placed there the smaller O.D. of the Bilsteins 5100 will Wear through the hat/dust cover subsequently causing a light knocking or clicking sound and eventually just wearing through the hat/dust cover and pushing through as yours did .....

How many miles do you have on your install Sir ?

Some have several thousand miles before any issues are known ?

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https://youtu.be/HcQnD_T0JmI

So at the 13:05 mark these guys drop the washer over the piston rod and then tighten the nut down...


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R.L.K. said:

The washer supplied with the bilsteins 5100s goes on below the threaded portion of the shocks piston against the bare cylinder .... it goes there because the pistons O.D. ( Outside Diameter ) is a bit smaller than the OEM shocks O.D. ; therefore, providing the proper amount of support required for the OEM hat /dust cover . If the washer is not placed there the smaller O.D. of the Bilsteins 5100 will Wear through the hat/dust cover subsequently causing a light knocking or clicking sound and eventually just wearing through the hat/dust cover and pushing through as yours did .....

How many miles do you have on your install Sir ?

Some have several thousand miles before any issues are known ?

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3k


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BigRed4x4 said:

https://youtu.be/HcQnD_T0JmI

So at the 13:05 mark these guys drop the washer over the piston rod and then tighten the nut down...


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This is EXACTLY THE WRONG WAY TO INSTALL THE WASHER !

See the notes ....




Step #5 says install the washer

Step 6 says Reinstall everything else ....in the video they call it the " upper thingy" LOL !

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R.L.K. said:

This is EXACTLY THE WRONG WAY TO INSTALL THE WASHER !

See the notes ....




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Haha, thanks for confirming that.


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So is no news good news? What did you hear from your shop today? Anything?

You guys have me paranoid on how I installed mine now. I can't remember where I put the washer because it has been 4-5 months since I did the install. Is there an easy way to tell where the washer is without disassembling everything? The only noise I have is a small knock when I hit a bump when turning left.

I have taken my suspension apart at least 4 times on each side at this point replacing upper control arms that I am scared I am going to crack the knuckle from being banged on so much. I need to invest in a ball join separator...

get a small mirror and put it on top of the frame mount, then angle it to allow you to see the top of the bolt to see if the washer is visible, if you see no washer your good.

I have a few of the inspection mirrors but I have also used a small make-up mirror of my wifes lol