Dyno tuning

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VB712

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I have a 14 sport. I have an intake and exhaust. I don't plan on any other mods at this time. I am planning on purchasing a tuner though. Instead of using canned tunes or mail ordered custom tunes, a local shop that specializes in hemi engines can custom dyno tune my truck.

My question is, with a basically stock truck, is getting a dyno tune worth the money? Will I have noticeable gains in performance or mpg?

Thanks!
 

MADDOG

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What are they gonna charge you?

If it's more than a tuner with a custom tune package included, like the Diablosport I2 with the Hemifever tuning, I don't think it's as good a deal. HF does some great work and Moe's Performance has very competitive pricing. With your level of mods I'd not spend the money to put it on a dyno.
 

Rupert

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^^^^^ true
I'd just add that if you know your end goal than you can plan accordingly: if your not going any further than I would simply get a CMR tune via email from one of the vendors.
I recommend Hemifever as he also sells tuners CMR pkgs. and you can save money that way. I really like his instructions.

I wouldn't spend coin on a dyno tune unless I was totally done moding and needed to get every bit of power out of the engine.

another point is to be sure the dyno tuner also runs your truck around on the street, slow , fast, etc. a real good test run to ensure any drivability issues can be addressed onsite.
 

BadRam14

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You would be better off going with Hemifever and getting an email tune. Dyno tunes cost way to much for what you are doing. I had a Procharged Mustang a while back and had an email tune. I wanted to see if I could get anymore out of it or if there would be any difference between the two. After spending $800 on the Dyno tune, it was no different than the email tune. Of course they will want a couple data logs to confirm everything but with that, they can do just as good as a Dyno tune in my opinion.
 
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Good day gentlemen and thanks for the add.
Even though im new here, definitely not new to my 12 ram 1500. I have lots of wana do's but time and coin isint my friend.
That said, iv done lots of research but none of which can be justified without hands on knowledge so here i sit hoping to gain some from you members.
2012 5.7 ram bighorn
KnN cold air, JBA shorties
Bola 1 in 2 out, 33/12.5/20's, 4"lift...............
Those tires! Ooooo those!
Took the heart and mpg right out of her..............
Clearly there is zero i can do to get back the mpg
But im struggling with dyno vs hand held. Iv read so much positive and negative about each. Looking for sound advise to fit my need. Dyno runs from $450/500, if for any reason she's flashed or i do any additional ad on's
Its another $80/150 depending on who i allow the work. Everone knows the 5.7 has zero top side issues but fall's short on low end torque. I do haul a bumper pull from time to time so the low end is my concern. Of course the dyno is a one time across the board tune and the handheld is adjust on fly.
My struggle at this moment is this, iv read multiple times messing with shift points will cost me a trany!! Does this happen on its own with the adjustable settings or is it an actual setting that i shouldn't touch? Next, all these synonyms and abbreviations REALLY throws me for a loop. Keep in mind im new to the digital and slang stuff. For instance, wth is a can tuner vs email tune? I have lots of questions in this area so I'll keep them to a minimum as i go. So anyone willing to coach a knuckle head with a few uneducated questions willing to bail in is much appreciated. Thanks in advance!
 

savage_46

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What are they gonna charge you?

If it's more than a tuner with a custom tune package included, like the Diablosport I2 with the Hemifever tuning, I don't think it's as good a deal. HF does some great work and Moe's Performance has very competitive pricing. With your level of mods I'd not spend the money to put it on a dyno.
I agree. Unless you're going full bolt ons, supercharger, or engine swap; I don't think it's worth it. Hemifever or Greene custom tune will be good enough
 

wink

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I agree with the others. I'm not a big believer in dyno tunes. It's a false environment that doesn't actually translate to the real world. An email tune based off of logs is more likely to perform better, and match your driving style and location.

I also think the mod level is somewhat irrelevant. When my Jeep had simple bolt-ons, I did an email tune. As the mods and power doubled, I stuck with an email tune. We threw it on the dyno several times, but just as a starting point, and bragging rights. ;) Now that I'm doubling the power again, it'll still have a log based tune. However I'm more interested in drag racing, so my logs are only based on passes I make at the track. That's what I want it optimized for. At a certain power level you gotta ask yourself, how much tweaking do I really need to go get groceries or merge onto the freeway? Most won't be at full throttle or doing launches all day long. So consider intended usage when recording logs.

The trannies are much more durable than you might think. Even with way more power than it was designed for, a custom TCM, and abusing it every week at the track, my OEM tranny lasted almost 300 passes. Less abuse would last even longer. With the Ram it was more a matter of feeling like it had a real tranny and not a CVT. Now it jumps when I get in the throttle a little and it shifts. But I don't do that all the time. So a little less torque management is a good thing IMO, and won't shorten its life. Same with the mods and tuning. It's my pickup truck, not my race vehicle. So some bolt-ons and a good tune makes it feel peppy enough to keep me happy, for now. And anecdotally, I did take it to the track to see what it would do. I beat an F-150 Ecoboost, and a Mustang GT, twice. ;) Again, usage dictates mods, logs, and tuning.

JD, a canned tune is one that is included in a tuning device, like a Diablosport device. They are written with a CYA for the vendor, not utmost performance. That's where a custom email tune based on logging certain parameters comes into play.

Hope that helps!

wink
 

16RamHemi

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good post @wink. im wanting a trans tune in my truck. saving up. i HATE the shift points in this 8 sp. pair that with 321 gears a 4" lift and 35s, and its not the most nimble. an hptuners trans tune from jay is in the near future. curious though as no one really asks or mentions it (so maybe its not an issue). if one has some small issues eith the trans itself (say they dont know of the issues, just know its not shifting the best), would a trans tune make any present problems worse (as far as making things wear out / break faster)?
 

wink

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good post @wink. im wanting a trans tune in my truck. saving up. i HATE the shift points in this 8 sp. pair that with 321 gears a 4" lift and 35s, and its not the most nimble. an hptuners trans tune from jay is in the near future. curious though as no one really asks or mentions it (so maybe its not an issue). if one has some small issues eith the trans itself (say they dont know of the issues, just know its not shifting the best), would a trans tune make any present problems worse (as far as making things wear out / break faster)?

Thanks man! Hard to say on a hypothetical, especially when you don't know the issue. I guess in some circumstances, making it shift firmer might exasperate the issue. Like the clutches going bad maybe. But again, if you're not pedal to the metal constantly, it's not really stressing anything more than normal. So a little less torque management is unlikely to hurt anything. I probably drove 50-60 miles this morning and never got into it enough to feel it shift. YMMV

Why do you want to raise the shift points? Ideally you want it to shift, at full throttle, at or near max power/torque. Now that's where a dyno can come in handy. To see where the power peaks and drops back off. But I'll just assume FCA is accurate with the 395@5600 RPM. That's where my Ram shifts. If you raise the shift point, you'll need to raise the limiter point as well. Otherwise you could trigger the limiter, and/or limp mode. Or is it you just don't like the less than full throttle shifting? I hated that delay when I would start moving, so I get it. Best bet is to tell your tuner what you want, and see if that makes you happy. That's what I did, and now I'm happy. ;)

wink
 

Pull Ya

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Thanks man! Hard to say on a hypothetical, especially when you don't know the issue. I guess in some circumstances, making it shift firmer might exasperate the issue. Like the clutches going bad maybe. But again, if you're not pedal to the metal constantly, it's not really stressing anything more than normal. So a little less torque management is unlikely to hurt anything. I probably drove 50-60 miles this morning and never got into it enough to feel it shift. YMMV

Why do you want to raise the shift points? Ideally you want it to shift, at full throttle, at or near max power/torque. Now that's where a dyno can come in handy. To see where the power peaks and drops back off. But I'll just assume FCA is accurate with the 395@5600 RPM. That's where my Ram shifts. If you raise the shift point, you'll need to raise the limiter point as well. Otherwise you could trigger the limiter, and/or limp mode. Or is it you just don't like the less than full throttle shifting? I hated that delay when I would start moving, so I get it. Best bet is to tell your tuner what you want, and see if that makes you happy. That's what I did, and now I'm happy. ;)

wink

This is the most important piece of information that you can get!!!!!!!!! Talk to your tuner
Jay
 

16RamHemi

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Thanks man! Hard to say on a hypothetical, especially when you don't know the issue. I guess in some circumstances, making it shift firmer might exasperate the issue. Like the clutches going bad maybe. But again, if you're not pedal to the metal constantly, it's not really stressing anything more than normal. So a little less torque management is unlikely to hurt anything. I probably drove 50-60 miles this morning and never got into it enough to feel it shift. YMMV

Why do you want to raise the shift points? Ideally you want it to shift, at full throttle, at or near max power/torque. Now that's where a dyno can come in handy. To see where the power peaks and drops back off. But I'll just assume FCA is accurate with the 395@5600 RPM. That's where my Ram shifts. If you raise the shift point, you'll need to raise the limiter point as well. Otherwise you could trigger the limiter, and/or limp mode. Or is it you just don't like the less than full throttle shifting? I hated that delay when I would start moving, so I get it. Best bet is to tell your tuner what you want, and see if that makes you happy. That's what I did, and now I'm happy. ;)

wink

i understand challenges with hypotheticals. i was more or less asking if tuning would pronounce any issues that may be present. obviously a proper tune by a.tuner who knows what they are doing really should not cause any problems.
as for my issues with these 8 speed transmissions....i am a pretty conservative (possibly boring) driver. do i drive fairly aggressively at times, passing people , accelerate from a stop at times? yes. im far from full throttle . just taching her up a bit. what i HATE is the conservative shifting. i understand max mileage blah blah blah. its like once the truck hits 20 it shifts to third, hits 30 shift to 4th. too mamy times i have had to slow down to make a turn or wait for the vehicle in front of me turn, then go to accelerate but the truck decides its time to up shift and just lug up to speed. could i have stomped on the gas and made her downshift? sure. but i dont like driving like that. i have also accelerated from a stop (again not stomping kust rolling strong for a semi aggresive acceleration) where the truck tachs up first nice, i give more throttle, tachs up second, i give more throttle then it upshifts early to third killing the acceleration. its like it is constantly looking to upshift as early as possible. i want to get rid of this. i do know when i have stomped down and made her drop down she responded. i love how these 5.7 hemis respond and like to work when you make it. its more of the in between shifting. trying to maximize mileage. maybe its all the torque management? not a good look for ram when i go to accelerate and the truck upshifts early, lugging the engine. think how that sounds and looks to the f150 guy behind me with my borla catback. hopefully i explained this right. appreciate your feedback .
 

wink

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Got it. Sorry, I forgot about the 35's and 3.21. Takes more torque to turn a larger tire. Lower gearing would help, but that's swapping two diffs. I assume 4WD. Or maybe attack if from the other end with a Whipple. It will definitely give you more torque. A tune might make it feel better and easier to live with, but I doubt it'll get you where you want it. But I'll defer to those that've been down that road. Still say talk to Jay and get his recommendations.

Torque management isn't likely to help. An oversimplified explanation is the computer ******* ignition timing during shifts, so there's less power when it engages the next gear. Less retard means more power and firmer shifts.

Best of luck with it!

wink
 
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Thanks wink good read, im doing a lot of reading attempting to understand the terms. That said it would seem the popular vote here for the guy just looking for more torque not necessarily all out ponies is a manual tuner.
Hemifever/bully etc.
I still have that concern over screwing with trann shift points!! If it can get Efe'd up! Im the guy that can surely get'er done.
 

wink

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Thanks wink good read, im doing a lot of reading attempting to understand the terms. That said it would seem the popular vote here for the guy just looking for more torque not necessarily all out ponies is a manual tuner.
Hemifever/bully etc.
I still have that concern over screwing with trann shift points!! If it can get Efe'd up! Im the guy that can surely get'er done.

Always glad to help where I can. This is a great forum with lots of knowledgeable folks, so don't be shy about questions. That's how we learn. For what you're looking for, a Diablosport tuner and Hemifever tune is the way I'd go. I'd actually recommend HP Tuners over the Diablosport products, but the DS will be easier to use, and you don't need a laptop to fully utilize it. Either way, it's a base you can add to should you decide you want more.

wink
 

16RamHemi

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Thanks wink good read, im doing a lot of reading attempting to understand the terms. That said it would seem the popular vote here for the guy just looking for more torque not necessarily all out ponies is a manual tuner.
Hemifever/bully etc.
I still have that concern over screwing with trann shift points!! If it can get Efe'd up! Im the guy that can surely get'er done.

im the same thought as you. dont want to mess things up. as i mentioned previously in this thread and others, my issue is how yhe truck shifts way too early. i have 35s and in my opinion, every time the truck shifts too early causing the engine to lug the rpms up, is not good. the truck / 5.7 has plenty of power imo. so being able to get that shift point higher up in the rpms and power band and not lug the engine to get the wheels/tires turning is a good thing. i also have 321 gears, so i have that against me as well for acceleration.

for me that is looking for more customization, hptuners is a better route. for the guy looking for a little more response and power ds would work well. depending on the year of your truck (15+) the pulsar may be a good option. if you choose the tune route, save up and go custom tune from hemifever or jay greene!
 
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being somewhat new to being somewhat new to programming I have a Trinity tuner with hemifever tune. If you give a HP Trans Tune how does that work with the Diablo tuner? Can I still change Tunes with it without affecting the transmission tune?
 

16RamHemi

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being somewhat new to being somewhat new to programming I have a Trinity tuner with hemifever tune. If you give a HP Trans Tune how does that work with the Diablo tuner? Can I still change Tunes with it without affecting the transmission tune?

not exactly sure on that one. i would just go with the hp for everything. sell the ds.
 
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my truck my truck is a 2013 5 7 is there a programmer that supports HP or is HP pretty much a laptop flash only
 

wink

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im the same thought as you. dont want to mess things up. as i mentioned previously in this thread and others, my issue is how yhe truck shifts way too early. i have 35s and in my opinion, every time the truck shifts too early causing the engine to lug the rpms up, is not good. the truck / 5.7 has plenty of power imo. so being able to get that shift point higher up in the rpms and power band and not lug the engine to get the wheels/tires turning is a good thing. i also have 321 gears, so i have that against me as well for acceleration.

Torque is made at lower RPMs. As the revs get higher, it drops off, while horsepower climbs. My Ram is shifting around 5500 RPM. Chrysler says mine makes max HP at 5600, but torque is already maxed out at 3950 RPM. That's crank power BTW, not wheel. But it still drops off at the wheel. So assuming yours is shifting about the same place, the torque has dropped off significantly by shift time. Raising the shift point will likely make the problem worse. You need more torque to turn the larger diameter tires, and you won't find it at a higher RPM.

I don't have a dyno pull for my Ram, but this one from my Jeep should show what I'm talking about.


FlyingPig_801.jpg

See the max torque is at ~5448 RPM, but my horsepower is still climbing up to around 5900. By the time I shift, the torque is way down.

wink

edit: Had an issue posting the pic. I made a smaller one but didn't hit the same spot so it changed from 5448 to 5458, but the same principle still applies.
 
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wink

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being somewhat new to being somewhat new to programming I have a Trinity tuner with hemifever tune. If you give a HP Trans Tune how does that work with the Diablo tuner? Can I still change Tunes with it without affecting the transmission tune?

The tunes are not compatible. You'll have to have your tuner write new ones for the HP.

wink
 
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