Hemi on Moonshine..... HECK YEAH!!

stimpy433 · Sep 1, 2016

MoparManiac12 said:
Interested too but I've seen to many threads go back and forth to gain a solid answer like yours. Thanks for telling us about using E85 with no issues. I'm really curious if the fuel lines can handle the corrosion of ethanol?

Sent from the howitzer

I'd think they use the same fuel lines for either the 3.6 or the 5.7 and I can run E85 in my 3.6.

Jerseymike · Sep 1, 2016

GoldDot said:
Do you have any information that the valves and seats are E85 compatible. I suspect you may experience issues with long term reliability.

I found a couple videos that show engine tear downs on non flex fuel trucks than ran E85 for 100k+ miles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuOs1yap8mU

Not only does it show no excessive wear but the motor is much cleaner than a comparable motor run on gas. Keep in mind the truck in the video is even pre 2001 when auto companies started building cars for Ethanol blended fuels.

There are many flex fuel conversion kits that have been sold (change2e85 is one company). If you look at their product it just plugs into the wiring harness between the fuel injectors and the PCM to boost fuel flow. No other changes are required. I'm sure this company would have been sued out of business if they were killing cars.

shane1981 · Sep 1, 2016

Jerseymike said:
The manual also doesn't recommend an aftermarket tuner, headers, wider tires, ported throttle body, etc.

I don't think anybody here is knocking it I think we are all interested in this and trying to understand it

tuned by Jay Greene

O.R.T. · Sep 1, 2016

O/P I wish you the best of luck with your experiment but at the same time I'm going to take apart one specific item, a major red flag when running E85 in a Hemi, mostly out of personal experience wrenching as well as seeing parts damaged and replacement parts sold.

You mention the reports of cleaner engines.

*Look into what's basically called "Fuel Wash" or "Cylinder Wash Down".

Jerseymike · Sep 1, 2016

Kotta390 said:
If you are running 12.7 AFR with e85, you are EXTREMELY lean!! Stoich for gasoline is right around 14.7:1 and its 9.7:1 for typical e85. I don't see how it's running that great at WOT with that fueling. Unless I missed something here..

So the 12.7 is the gas conversion, it would be about 7.7 on the E85 scale. My truck runs better at 12.7 than 12.5. Another cool thing is Ethanol cools the combustion chamber, so it is really resistant to knock even with higher timing and leaner conditions. I read about tuner turbo cars running as high as 12.5 when they would normally be around 10.5.

Jerseymike · Sep 1, 2016

charonblk07 said:
Again, how I wish we had E85 in Canada, there's no reason that I wouldn't be running it in mine even if the fuel mileage would suffer a hell of a lot more than it already does.

Yeah I read your comments on other threads. Helped me with the decision to go ahead and give it a shot. Thanks for all your post.

Beauregard7765 · Sep 1, 2016

hemifever said:
The 12.7 afr statement is inaccurate. That's a gas reading and not accurate on the e85 config.

If we already have your tunes, would you through this in? Or would we need to buy it?

Sent from the fetal position using Tapatalk

Axel · Sep 1, 2016

I would add some fuel, to bring it closer to .714 Lambda

Jerseymike · Sep 1, 2016

FYI. Here is a link to the FAQ section of change2e85, it addresses many of the questions and concerns raised on this thread.

https://www.change2e85.com/E85-Myths-FAQs

I generally keep my trucks for 10+ years and would not have converted to E85 if I thought it would cause long term damage to the motor. It has been a learning curve for me and I will keep researching and monitoring the motor for any anomalies or red flags.

Additionally, I will hand calculate the fuel mileage on this latest fill up and update this thread in a week with the findings. I also don't understand how the mileage has remained the same as with gas.

jag1886 · Sep 2, 2016

That E85 isn't going to hurt anything on these new trucks unless you are running lean then you will eventually torch a hole through something. Alcohol only has 1/2 the BTU's of gas which means you need twice as much to get the same result. I only mention this because I used to help on a Alcohol funny car and man they can drink it. 18MPG with 4:10's no way!

Jerseymike · Sep 3, 2016

I'm at 18.2 mpg right now. I am going to hand calculate this tank to see if the EVIC is off but it looks good so far. I don't really understand it either.

Jerseymike · Sep 7, 2016

UPDATE: The EVIC is way off. It still says I am getting 18 mpg. I just did a hand calculation and I am getting 13.1 with E85. This makes more sense since you have to burn 30% more E85 to equal gas. It is still cheaper than running 91 or 93 octane gas. I am going to keep running the E85 since my truck runs way stronger and it only cost me a little more than Regular 87 octane fuel.

dapepper9 · Sep 7, 2016

And just like that....everything is believable again lol. I've never trusted those things.

Love this thread and the results you've seen. If i didn't live so far north I'd be going the same route in my 01 when i finish my boost build

nickpohlaandp · Sep 7, 2016

jag1886 said:
That E85 isn't going to hurt anything on these new trucks unless you are running lean then you will eventually torch a hole through something. Alcohol only has 1/2 the BTU's of gas which means you need twice as much to get the same result...

^^^This. Lean is the biggest part of this statement. OP stated he was running an AFR of 12.something at WOT. If that's accurate you'll be replacing internals soon. My guess is your wideband gauge isn't calibrated properly. With E85 12.? is ok under very little load just cruising, but at WOT that's danger zone. You might want to double check your AFR gauge calibration.

Jerseymike · Sep 7, 2016

nickpohlaandp said:
^^^This. Lean is the biggest part of this statement. OP stated he was running an AFR of 12.something at WOT. If that's accurate you'll be replacing internals soon. My guess is your wideband gauge isn't calibrated properly. With E85 12.? is ok under very little load just cruising, but at WOT that's danger zone. You might want to double check your AFR gauge calibration.

It's not lean. That is why it is burning 35% more fuel. The O2 sensors read using lambda and the PCM/Diablosport converts the reading into a gas AFR scale. If it converted to an E85 scale it would be at 7.7. If it were that lean it would run like crap. Lean symptoms are: hesitation, knock and over heating. I am getting 0 knock on both long term and short term scales, chirping tires while shifting into 2nd, and the exhaust gas temps are 1250F while cruising and 1650F after a 1/4 mile WOT run.

And the fuel trims are better than they were on gas.

dapepper9 · Sep 7, 2016

nickpohlaandp said:
^^^This. Lean is the biggest part of this statement. OP stated he was running an AFR of 12.something at WOT. If that's accurate you'll be replacing internals soon. My guess is your wideband gauge isn't calibrated properly. With E85 12.? is ok under very little load just cruising, but at WOT that's danger zone. You might want to double check your AFR gauge calibration.

As has been previously posted, traditional widebands don't produce the same readings. 12s on e85 that, when truly e85, has 85% of its makeup producing an exhaust mix that the wideband really isn't reading is actually pretty decently rich as is needed

nickpohlaandp · Sep 7, 2016

Eh, I'm used to my wideband that can be set for fuel type so you're actually seeing a correct value, not a perceived good value.

Jerseymike · Sep 8, 2016

Last time I checked 12.7 was an actual, as opposed to perceived, good value. If my gauge reads 5 minutes and yours reads 300 seconds, it may be a different scale but its the same result.

nickpohlaandp · Sep 8, 2016

No. Stoichiometry is a lambda value given by your AFR gauge. Gas stiochiometry is 14.7, E85 is around 9. The gauge needs to be calibrated to show you what your actual AFR is for the fuel type you're running. Under WOT with E85, 7.5-8 would be an ideal AFR.

Rupert · Sep 8, 2016

Youse guys don't think Hemifever would let him run lean do ya?

interesting and informative discussion

My additional concern is what about the water that alcohol likes to bring into the mix?

Hemi on Moonshine..... HECK YEAH!!

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