Hesitation/Struggle during 1st start up of day...solutions?

Csanders1992 · Jun 15, 2016

My 15 big horn did this once. It started right after I filled up with 91 octane no ethanol gas. I switched back to regular gas and it hasn't done it since. I'd experiment with gas from different places and see if it goes away. To clarify, it did it on first start up the whole time I had that gas

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rblakes1 · Jun 16, 2016

MANual_puller said:
Yeah, mds lifters is not your problem lol I've never had this with the '06 or the '11, both 2500. Look at the plugs and see if one cylinder looks different than the rest. Also, did you get coppers or iridium?

Mopar plugs installed at the dealership

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bobbo7915 · Jun 17, 2016

my truck does this if i run anything other then 87 octane. if i run 89 or 91/93 it hesitates on start up. this issue also stays with the truck if i run a diablo or hemifever tune.

Sir John · Jun 17, 2016

bobbo7915 said:
this issue also stays with the truck if i run a diablo or hemifever tune.

You just broke my heart with this statement. I was secretly hoping that a tuner with a custom tune would make his go away for my Ram. :bawl:

FlatLandRam · Jun 28, 2016

My 2014 ram 2500 with the 5.7L has this exact same issue. I switched to 91 octane fuel and am running a HF 91 tune and its a night and day difference but start ups worry me. Mainly because at minus 40 the last thing I need is my truck to not start and drain the battery down while doing so. It also does it with my command start and the key. So i can rule out that its not my command start. It all seamed to start once I started running premium fuel. I may try back tracking to a HF 87 tune just for sake of trying to see if it solves my issues but I like the added mileage I have gained with the 91 tune.... decisions decisions :/

MANual_puller · Jun 28, 2016

FlatLandRam said:
My 2014 ram 2500 with the 5.7L has this exact same issue. I switched to 91 octane fuel and am running a HF 91 tune and its a night and day difference but start ups worry me. Mainly because at minus 40 the last thing I need is my truck to not start and drain the battery down while doing so. It also does it with my command start and the key. So i can rule out that its not my command start. It all seamed to start once I started running premium fuel. I may try back tracking to a HF 87 tune just for sake of trying to see if it solves my issues but I like the added mileage I have gained with the 91 tune.... decisions decisions :/

That's interesting. The only time I've ever experienced extended cranking with a Hemi is with my old truck when I would get a little excited with the clutch and accidentally kill it. It was an '06 and had the G56 manual. That was different than the video above, it would crank for 10 seconds with no fire and then suddenly fire right up. I haven't experienced any starting hesitation with my '11 to date. I've been running 91 since the first fillup after I bought it and DSP's towing tune. Last weekend I loaded up DSP's mileage tune because I was going on a trip, still no problems starting and the truck is parked with the evic reading 16.2 avg, 15.3 is the best it would read with the towing tune. I have not tried the "performance tunes" from DSP with this truck but I suspect starting still won't be an issue.

You guys that have this problem, has anyone load tested their battery and ohm tested their starter? Slow cranking could be the culprit.

FlatLandRam · Jun 29, 2016

Tested my battery voltage last night with the fluke meter and everything is spot on. Slight voltage drop on cranking but it comes right back up for operation. Im just going to run it until winter and see if it gets better or worse.

Sir John · Jun 29, 2016

I'm about to pick my 14 Sport back up from the dealership. One of the reasons I took it there was because of this startup hesitation. To one degree or another, it's been doing it every morning for the last month or two. I even took another video of it to show the Service Advisor....one normal startup and one with the hesitation. They had the truck for 2 days now......guess what?.....they weren't able to duplicate it! F@#king truck!...I really want to get rid of this truck at this point....I've had way too many issues.

Hemi395 · Jun 29, 2016

I know it's frustrating. Unless something is falling off the truck they "can't duplicate".

I went to start my truck on Sunday and I really thought it wasn't going to start. After it warmed up it started fine. And this only happens in the summer. When it's 10*F out in February it starts no problem...

Sir John · Jun 29, 2016

Hemi395 said:
I know it's frustrating. Unless something is falling off the truck they "can't duplicate".

I went to start my truck on Sunday and I really thought it wasn't going to start. After it warmed up it started fine. And this only happens in the summer. When it's 10*F out in February it starts no problem...

Unfortunately they aren't mechanics anymore, just "part replacers". If the truck's computer doesn't tell them exactly what to do, then they're lost...and just say "can't duplicate". My hesitation happens like yours...in the winter it doesn't do it, but definitely does it in the summer.

Tach_tech · Jun 30, 2016

Sir John said:
Unfortunately they aren't mechanics anymore, just "part replacers". If the truck's computer doesn't tell them exactly what to do, then they're lost...and just say "can't duplicate". My hesitation happens like yours...in the winter it doesn't do it, but definitely does it in the summer.

Lol you don't quite know what you're talking about. In my 8 years as a Chrysler tech not once have I experienced any computer on a truck tell me exactly what to do. That's not even remotely how it works. Being a tech now a days is easier someways and exponentially more difficult other ways. You have to be extremely good with computers, especially if you specialize in electrical/driveability like I do.

You also need to understand that when it comes to warranty, a lot of the times the techs hands are tied. If we can't at least verify the problem in half an hour, Chrysler won't pay for any more diag.

Now as to the issue at hand. If we're talking about an intermittent rough idle during cold start, I know how you guys feel, my truck does it too, they all do

This doesn't apply to an extended crank time. There is something called Dynamic Crankshaft Fuel Control. What this is, is a cold start rough idle. What happens is during a cold start the PCM will begin removing fuel from the engine until either a rough idle or lean limit is reached. It does this in order to minimize fuel needed for a cold start. Now the one weird part is there seems to be no rhyme or reason which cold start the PCM chooses to do this, basically whenever the task manager tells it to do it. So I know some people don't like it, but unfortunately it's the way it is. I know some people have had luck minimizing the felt rough idle by trying different fuels. So there's not really a fix for it, because it's doing exactly what it's designed for. But hey what do I know, I'm just a parts replacer right?

Murder_ram22 · Jun 30, 2016

MANual_puller said:
You mean like a flat lifter not opening up the intake valve until it gets oil pressure after 3 or 4 shots of fuel land on it?

I still believe it has a lot to do with the MDS lifters. They have had some issues with collapsed lifters in hemis that fail to pump up. No surprise that they may weep a little and drain back after sitting.

Well my truck also does this and it's a 2500 with the hemi

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MANual_puller · Jun 30, 2016

Murder_ram22 said:
Well my truck also does this and it's a 2500 with the hemi

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Maybe it isn't the MDS then. I've had 2 2500 trucks with the hemi and neither had the problem. At first it was just the half ton guys complaining about it so I was figuring it had to be something that was different between the two models. Guess not :word:

Sir John · Jun 30, 2016

Tach_tech said:
Lol you don't quite know what you're talking about. In my 8 years as a Chrysler tech not once have I experienced any computer on a truck tell me exactly what to do. That's not even remotely how it works. Being a tech now a days is easier someways and exponentially more difficult other ways. You have to be extremely good with computers, especially if you specialize in electrical/driveability like I do.

You also need to understand that when it comes to warranty, a lot of the times the techs hands are tied. If we can't at least verify the problem in half an hour, Chrysler won't pay for any more diag.

Now as to the issue at hand. If we're talking about an intermittent rough idle during cold start, I know how you guys feel, my truck does it too, they all do

This doesn't apply to an extended crank time. There is something called Dynamic Crankshaft Fuel Control. What this is, is a cold start rough idle. What happens is during a cold start the PCM will begin removing fuel from the engine until either a rough idle or lean limit is reached. It does this in order to minimize fuel needed for a cold start. Now the one weird part is there seems to be no rhyme or reason which cold start the PCM chooses to do this, basically whenever the task manager tells it to do it. So I know some people don't like it, but unfortunately it's the way it is. I know some people have had luck minimizing the felt rough idle by trying different fuels. So there's not really a fix for it, because it's doing exactly what it's designed for. But hey what do I know, I'm just a parts replacer right?

Lol…too funny. You’re right, I don’t know what I’m talking about, in regards to this cold start issue, or I would have fixed the ******** thing myself by now….of course you’re saying nothing is wrong….not too surprised by that actually. For some of my friends and family that are techs at dealerships for the last 20+ yrs (before you were even out of elementary school actually and some before you were born), yes, techs at dealerships have slowly moved from mechanics (that actually troubleshoot) to basic “part replacers”, by their own words, tied to what a computer tells them is wrong and what the manufacturer will pay them to do….as you so well explain in a smartass way. When I was a helicopter and airplane mechanic in the Army and Air Force, we would spend hours “spark chasing” until we fixed whatever the hell was wrong. Fortunately, we did have a manufacturer giving us a deadline. We just fixed it right the 1st time. BTW, that deadline that is there from Chrysler (and the other manufacturers) is there to control costs caused my unethical dealerships and techs and screws the customers in the end….again, not my own words…just regurgitating.
Also, I don’t think what you describe is the issue, but who knows. See my post (link below) that I did about 2 yrs ago. There are many posts on this forum and other forums over this issue. If you just now solved it, then you’re the man!

http://www.ramforum.com/f44/starting_hesitation_video_my_2014_sport-54938/

:favorites13:

Sir John · Jun 30, 2016

Murder_ram22 said:
Well my truck also does this and it's a 2500 with the hemi

6.4 Hemi or 5.7 Hemi? I ask because the 5.7 Hemi in the 2500 trucks does not have MDS as far as I know...

Murder_ram22 · Jun 30, 2016

It is the 5.7

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Tach_tech · Jun 30, 2016

Sir John said:
Lol…too funny. You’re right, I don’t know what I’m talking about, in regards to this cold start issue, or I would have fixed the ******** thing myself by now….of course you’re saying nothing is wrong….not too surprised by that actually. For some of my friends and family that are techs at dealerships for the last 20+ yrs (before you were even out of elementary school actually and some before you were born), yes, techs at dealerships have slowly moved from mechanics (that actually troubleshoot) to basic “part replacers”, by their own words, tied to what a computer tells them is wrong and what the manufacturer will pay them to do….as you so well explain in a smartass way. When I was a helicopter and airplane mechanic in the Army and Air Force, we would spend hours “spark chasing” until we fixed whatever the hell was wrong. Fortunately, we did have a manufacturer giving us a deadline. We just fixed it right the 1st time. BTW, that deadline that is there from Chrysler (and the other manufacturers) is there to control costs caused my unethical dealerships and techs and screws the customers in the end….again, not my own words…just regurgitating.
Also, I don’t think what you describe is the issue, but who knows. See my post (link below) that I did about 2 yrs ago. There are many posts on this forum and other forums over this issue. If you just now solved it, then you’re the man!

http://www.ramforum.com/f44/starting_hesitation_video_my_2014_sport-54938/

Absolutely I was being a smart ass. When someone just assumes how things are and groups me in with the brain dead crook techs that need someone's hand to hold in order to fix a problem I take offence to that. There are techs/dealers out there that just blindly follow a computer and won't actually spend the time to repair problems properly the first time instead of the 3rd or 4th. I take pride in being an electrical/driveability specialist, and I'm pretty good at it. I've spent the time and effort to actually understand the complicated systems on today's vehicles and don't just stare at a computer hoping it tells me what to replace(which they don't anyway). I've spent hours upon hours, sometimes days trying to find intermittent electrical problems, and to this day I haven't failed in finding and fixing even the most bizarre issues. I come on this forum in order to help

Now that that's out of the way and I've said my piece, we're all good.

To the actual issue, obviously I don't have a crystal ball and can't tell anyone here that the DCFC is what's happening. I'm just letting you guys know that if you're experiencing a slight stumble that almost feels like a misfire during a cold start, that there is a good chance that's what it is. I've even confirmed this with out tech line engineers that we go to when we're stumped. I've even started brand new vehicles on the lot that do this. Some people don't like that answer and will choose to ignore it. So take it for what it is.

MANual_puller · Jun 30, 2016

Huh. I'm stumped. I've owned a hemi powered truck since 2008, had 2 of them so far. An '06 and now an '11. Both were bought used and I've never had this happen. Must be lucky :happy107:

StoneDude76 · Jun 30, 2016

I have had issues at start up. And it is not normal. Right now it seems to be starting ok. But it is definitely a mid fire cause you can hear it in the exhaust. RPMs rise and fall and is choppy.
There is no check engine light on so the dealership can't diagnose it. I am actually thinking of trading the truck in now. I have no confidence that this truck will last.

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Sir John · Jun 30, 2016

StoneDude76 said:
I have had issues at start up. And it is not normal. Right now it seems to be starting ok. But it is definitely a mid fire cause you can hear it in the exhaust. RPMs rise and fall and is choppy.
There is no check engine light on so the dealership can't diagnose it. I am actually thinking of trading the truck in now. I have no confidence that this truck will last.

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I feel your pain buddy. I have had sooooo warranty fixes in 2 yrs that it is embarrassing to even admit.

Hesitation/Struggle during 1st start up of day...solutions?

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