So Much Moly

Has anyone heard of Schaeffer's Supreme 9000 synthetic oil? It has so much more molybdenum than other more popular oils. I understand that HEMI's love moly because of their sub-standard oil circulation, and moly is a super-lubricant.

I pulled this search off the PQIA website, from their 2013 "Spotlight report". I've read a volatility rating ~5 is also desired, but those are rare. The lower the better, I suppose.

I'm using Royal Purple 5W-20 now, but after reading that they changed their formula in 2011, removing nearly all their moly, I'm looking for a new oil. I know the more protection additives an oil has, the longer an oil will protect an engine. But where's the line to this? At what amount will all of those same additives cause more harm than benefit, if the oil is being changed regularly after 3k-4k miles? Could these additives be taking space for something more beneficial that would increase MPGs or relieve 1-2%+ of hp/tq? Race oils have very little, if any, protection additives, but get changed out MUCH more frequently than casual drivers.

I'm not a chemist or engineer. Just curious.

I've never heard of a volatility rating (NOACK) less then 5 on a 5w20 oil, and around 300PPM Moly is great. My oil choice has 880PPM, so more Moly Mo Betta up to a point. I think most engines have dry startups on the top end, and Moly is something that helps combat early wear.

I would look into Antimony, actually I don't have any info on this. It is something in your oil I never seen in other oils. Everything else looks great and Shaeffers is very good oil.

i used castrol synthetic because it had the chrysler specification on the back of the bottle.

My oil choice has 880PPM, so more Moly Mo Betta up to a point.

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I guess Redline kinda puts everything else to shame, for HEMIs. Sign me up. Do you still recommend the RP filter, or is there a better one?

Redline or Motul, but Penzoil Ultra is probably just as good, maybe even Amsoil SS. Lots of good choices. Read the syn thread, I just cut open a RP filter after 14 months of use and was blown away. Whenever I get extra cash I'm gonna buy like 6 just to have on hand. Best filter I've ever seen is Royal Purple.

Just glanced at that thread and every member using it seems happy with their switch. Sounds like I found my new combo, as well.

Thanks for the quick responses.

I swear I just cut that filter open today, I was completely thinking I was going to tell all you guys 14 months is too long to run a filter, but that was NOT the case. Royal purple filters are something else. I bet that engine lasts a good long time.

I do know Antimony will not and does not show up on your normal UOA or VOA!

A bit long but kinda give you an idea!

This white paper discusses the basis of Organic Antimony Compounds as additives in Motor oils, Gear Lubes, and Greases.

Many additives are defined as “Multifunctional Additives” because they perform more than one function in a lubricant. One of the most well known additives, Zinc Diakyl dithiophosphate or ZDDP, is one of those additives. ZDDP performs as an Anti-Wear (AW) additive, a mild Friction Modifier (FM), and as an antioxidant. Organic compounds of Moly dithiocarbamates (MoTDC), also function in the same manner as ZDDP, but at higher temperatures and pressures. Boron (to be discussed in another white paper), can be used as an anti-wear additive and as a detergent component as well.

Then there is a class of additives which are also multifunctional, but perform only as AW additives and as Extreme Pressure (EP) additives; these are generally found in Gear Lubes and greases. They impart surface protection under extreme contact pressures and shear by virtue of laying down a surface film that prevents galling and other types of wear. These are the Phosphors, Sulfurs, Borons, and Nitrogen additives found in gear lubes and greases. Chlorinated hydrocarbons perform the AW and EP functions as well, but the decomposition of these compounds to hydrochloric acids, and their environmental impact, has led to the much reduced use of these additives.

Organic antimony compounds such as Antimony diakyl dithiocarbamates (sometimes denoted as SbDTC or ADD), is another one of those multifunctional additives, but is lesser known. ADD’s have been both bench tested and field tested, and have been found to perform the following roles:
1. Anti-scuffing (EP) agents,
2. anti-wear (AW) agents,
3. oxidation inhibitors
4. copper-lead corrosion inhibitors,
5. rust inhibitors.


There five main alkyl groups of SbDTC’s, and they are the n-butyl, the Amyl, the Hexyl, the 2-Ethylhexyl, and the Decyl groups. Chemically, the structure is composed of three alkyl molecules consisting of one nitrogen atom, two sulfur atoms, and one carbon atom, bound to one antimony atom. Anywhere from 10% to 17% antimony is contained in the dithiocarbamate structure, which has been found to be the most stable of all the antimony additives. Of the five groups, the Amyl and Hexyl dialkyl dithiocarbamates show the greatest resistance to welding, galling, and scuffing when subjected to Timken Loads.

When the percentage of SbDTC’s are increased from 0.5% to 3% concentration in a SAE 90 weight gear oil, the Timken weld increased from 160 lbs. to 355 lbs.

In greases, the SbDTC’s perform the functions of an EP additive, an anti-rust agent, and as an anticorrosion additive. Marine greases usually add SbDTC’s, since salt water corrosion is inhibited. Marine vessels and boat trailer bearings thus benefit from this additive in greases.

While some EP and AW additives show poor thermal stability, SbDTC’s do not. This is why they have advantages in motor oils as well. SbDTC’s in motor oils prevent bearing loss, low top ring deposits, and low ring wear. Camshaft lifter scuffing is almost zero when 0.5% of SbDTC’s are added to motor oils.

As with MoTDC’s, these organic antimony compounds also act synergistically with ZDDP compounds in motor oil. It is believed that sharing of the sulfur and phosphorus atoms contribute to the creation of surface films composed of layers of ferrous sulfate and ferrous phosphate, with the organometallic components depositing a plastic layer of antimony and zinc sulfates and phosphates.

So SbDTC’s are indeed multifunctional additives that contribute to the reduction of wear by acting as AW and EP additives, while preventing oxidation and corrosion inside engines, gear boxes, and bearings.

This is why Schaeffers #132 does not look impressive under the VOA!! It has a fair amount of Antimony that will not show up with a normal ****** Oil Sample!

SyN said:

I do know Antimony will not and does not show up on UOA or VOA!

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It is in the PQIA VOA Havix's spotlight link. first post. It is the only oil that has it, maybe more companies should look into it.

Thanks for posting, looks like Shaeffers is good stuff like I expected!

At first I thought this thread was about someone who popped too many mollys...

Alright... motor oil, ok gotchya... Lol.

In wouldn't mind Popping Molly Sims, is that the Molly your talking about?

Just visited with a old friend who does alot of road course racing! We talked about Moly & Antimony... For our 5.7L...

I am really on the fence about adding this to my Hemi since it contains a God Ugly amount of Phosphorus-->Which is not user friendly with our Kats!

The Product is Torco MPZ Magnetic Friction Reducer! This is a VOA from a couple years ago... If I could find an accurate way of diluting this product to a safe Phos Level! I just might try it! It is mainly for Race Engines!

Here is the VOA from a few years ago...

You can read about the treat rate and all the stuff about this 12oz bottle at torcousa.com

Fe 3
Al 15
Copper 3
Tin 169
Si 20
Moly 7603
Zn - trace
Phos - greater than 9999 -max of instrument reading capability.
Antimony- greater than 9999 - max of instrument reading capability
Viscosity 29.3

Seriously I don't think I would take a chance with this Loaded Product with a new engine with a warranty! If the Phosphorus was not present I just might try it though!

I have a good friend who spent 40 years as a chemist with Pennzoil... adding anything to your oil is a bad idea...always. The spend millions of dollars formulating additive packages, burn out and tear down thousands of engines in the process.. adding anything to the additive package will change the balance.

My second hand 2 cents.

Brain: Years ago I did many months of research on Schaeffers Moly E.P=#132 before adding it for the first time.... My eyes have witnessed many UOA with #132 added to the oil! Every one come back with reduced wear numbers as with a Thumbs UP from Blackstone or Polaris Labs! Both even recommend continue use of the product!

I do agree one should not add additives to his or her oil-->Without Researching the Product through! There are many so called Snake Oil Products!! But there are a handful of Products that actually show positive results with actual data!

No Worries Every Owner has their own thoughts and opinions on the subject!

Every Day Products improve! There are Legit Products out there that actually benefit the existing product lines... I Try to keep an open mind and listen to New Data!

Todays Oils are unbelievably good with Tons of research and testing going into them! But these companies just can't create the oils to meet every engines needs! Some engine designs Sheer the Unholy **** out of the oil in a very short time...Some designs just require more anti-wear additives such it seems the case within the Hemi design!

braindead0 said:

I have a good friend who spent 40 years as a chemist with Pennzoil... adding anything to your oil is a bad idea...always. The spend millions of dollars formulating additive packages, burn out and tear down thousands of engines in the process.. adding anything to the additive package will change the balance.

My second hand 2 cents.

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My father in law used to work for The National Institute for Petroleum Energy Research. He also said to never add anything to engine oil. He spent years testing additives and never found one that was worth adding to one of his personal engines. He bought a few of the test engines from NIPER over the years and always used just regular oil afterwards. His choice was Castrol GTX.