Synthetic Oil

Burla · Sep 4, 2018

ISellRams22 said:
as yall know i have had a slight hemi tick despite taking extremely good care of my one year old truck now that i put 40k miles on in that time. oil changes have been done for the first year via dealerhsip using pp5w20. last friday i changed the oil myself (oil change plan ran out), and i used M1's top synth 7 quarts 5w30 this time not 5w20 with a fram ultra oil filter and liquid moly additive. immediate difference in start up noise but still a slight tick. drove to the mountains and back (400 miles) and now the tick is gone. drove it twice and the hemi is silent.. im thrilled. smoother as well, and my oil temp usually sits at 218 and now it sits at 210-212. overly joyed. whoohooo

Great info, thanks for posting.

ISellRams22 · Sep 4, 2018

Burla said:
Great info, thanks for posting.

next oil change will be redline and ill prolly stay with that forever i just wanted to be creative and see if the m1/fram ultra/liqui-moly combo worked and it did!

Burla · Sep 4, 2018

Glad to have someone do some tests, we used to be like that like 5 years ago, but pretty much now people just go to redline. However, I still want to see more options, glad that moly plated you up. I personally believe killing those ticks is not masking the situation but adding adequate lubrication where it was needed, no I can't prove that.

Burla · Sep 4, 2018

For discussion, I think expanding on something Syn said a while back on warming up hemi's. So I have had two experiences with my hemi until lately, it was either a **** all tick, or it was butter smooth. However, I now have a third experience with this hemi thanks to 10w30 redline. The third experience is an almost tick, and I found something I find real interesting thanks to this funny experience.

It is almost like an "echo" of a tick and it only happens at idle, and really only happens at idle during short trips. It just makes me really believe these cams are starving for oil at idle. When the truck gets to temp the oil is so thin there isn't this thing going on. I know the 10w30 redline is not as good as 5w20 or 5w30 redline at killing ticks, the 10 winter ratings are not as good imo, Kyle is having something similar going on.

But I didn't really mean this to be about redline, the fact is I wont be warming up my truck anymore and if I am at idle I'm gonna kick up the rpm's to at least 1200ish. discuss?

chrisbh17 · Sep 4, 2018

The only time my truck really idles for an extended period is when I use remote start in the winter. Ill remote it about 5 minutes before I intend on leaving. Sometimes it runs longer than that just because, but never long enough for the timeout (which I think is 10 minutes?)

I agree with the theory behind not enough oil at idle...but I always figured that would be a real issue when the oil is hot (i.e. thin). That's why I hate the "low" oil pressure at hot idle. If you raised idle even just 50-100 RPM I bet the engine would be much better off.

But during a remote start session, when the oil is still cold, I would be at 55-60 psi even after getting into the truck. I figure with that much pressure the oil is still thick enough to protect.

It is a very interesting theory because more than a few people have mentioned they've bee in shops fixing these things and the bulk of them were construction and emergency vehicles (i.e. vehicles that idle a lot, mostly with the oil at full temp)

Ramnewbie · Sep 4, 2018

That is also an argument for 5/30 over 5/20. When I was running 5/20 my hot idle oil pressure was 36 psi, with 5/30 my hot idle oil pressure is 42 to 44 psi. Even with that increase in idle oil pressure my oil pressure when on the road has only increased 1 psi.

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69GWC · Sep 4, 2018

Watched mine on the way home today.
75* outside temp and rain
Motor 204*
Trans 177*
Oil 230*
Oil pressure at 2k rpms 54lbs.

Imo 230* on the oil just driving down the hwy is alittle high, my truck did not carry these oil temps on 5w30 but it sure does with the 10w30 mix I have.

Hemi395 · Sep 4, 2018

Burla said:
For discussion, I think expanding on something Syn said a while back on warming up hemi's. So I have had two experiences with my hemi until lately, it was either a **** all tick, or it was butter smooth. However, I now have a third experience with this hemi thanks to 10w30 redline. The third experience is an almost tick, and I found something I find real interesting thanks to this funny experience.

It is almost like an "echo" of a tick and it only happens at idle, and really only happens at idle during short trips. It just makes me really believe these cams are starving for oil at idle. When the truck gets to temp the oil is so thin there isn't this thing going on. I know the 10w30 redline is not as good as 5w20 or 5w30 redline at killing ticks, the 10 winter ratings are not as good imo, Kyle is having something similar going on.

But I didn't really mean this to be about redline, the fact is I wont be warming up my truck anymore and if I am at idle I'm gonna kick up the rpm's to at least 1200ish. discuss?

Jay Greene sets the idle on his tunes to 650-700. It's definitely a dramatic difference in oil pressure compared to stock idle of about 550. The stock tune win RL 5w30 my idle psi is about 38, with Jay's tune idling aroun 700 it's 48.

I'm wondering if lower oil pressure has something to do with increased ticking at idle? Like it's not quite getting enough oil to the valve train...

Hemi395 · Sep 4, 2018

69GWC said:
Watched mine on the way home today.
75* outside temp and rain
Motor 204*
Trans 177*
Oil 230*
Oil pressure at 2k rpms 54lbs.

Imo 230* on the oil just driving down the hwy is alittle high, my truck did not carry these oil temps on 5w30 but it sure does with the 10w30 mix I have.

230?? That is pretty high. Only time I see oil temps like that are when I'm towing...

69GWC · Sep 4, 2018

Hemi395 said:
230?? That is pretty high. Only time I see oil temps like that are when I'm towing...

Last time I towed my trailer it hit 251* and that was pretty flat land and really was not working hard.

Fitz-0518 · Sep 4, 2018

I am coming to the conclusion over the last year of following and learning. Common sense is giving way to the suspicion many of us have. The design of the oil system and the mandate for thin oil is "contributing" to this common problem. Evidence of this continues to be the number of engines that have valve train issues and also spend time idling. Police, County, Fleet etc. A quality, application specific high molly oil and filter clearly helps. I think FCA is going to face a settlement day when the cause and effect is finally diagnosed and the fault is proven. In the mean time I will stay with RL for the formula benefits I have found. Will use PUP with Lube-guard in the 6.4 after break in and flushing out the build debris.

ISellRams22 · Sep 4, 2018

69GWC said:
Last time I towed my trailer it hit 251* and that was pretty flat land and really was not working hard.

what oil are you using?? ive had almost 9k on baby girl in the mountains and never went over 235

69GWC · Sep 4, 2018

ISellRams22 said:
what oil are you using?? ive had almost 9k on baby girl in the mountains and never went over 235

I have 4qrts of 10w30 and 3 qrts of 5w30 Redline and a RP filter.

Was going with this mix for my summer oil but its not having the effect I was after. Lol
Was hoping for cooler oil temps.

69GWC · Sep 4, 2018

I also ran 5w30 RL before this run of oil I never saw over 221*

Hemi395 · Sep 4, 2018

69GWC said:
I also ran 5w30 RL before this run of oil I never saw over 221*

Now that's interesting, what about RL 10w oils make it run that much hotter? 10w vs 5w shouldn't make a difference at operating temp....

69GWC · Sep 4, 2018

I know it has alittle different additives and that was one reason I went with it.
Have no clue why its running hotter, I am going to order some 5w30 RL pretty soon and change it out to see what the temps run and if they are cooler I will just say it was the 10w30 and move on.

Hemi395 · Sep 4, 2018

It's starting to look like RL really shines in their 5w and 0w oils...

Ramnewbie · Sep 4, 2018

Hemi395 said:
Jay Greene sets the idle on his tunes to 650-700. It's definitely a dramatic difference in oil pressure compared to stock idle of about 550. The stock tune win RL 5w30 my idle psi is about 38, with Jay's tune idling aroun 700 it's 48.

I'm wondering if lower oil pressure has something to do with increased ticking at idle? Like it's not quite getting enough oil to the valve train...

My 17 is completely stock other than redline, OCC, and k&n air filter and it has always idled at 700/750 rpm. The only time it dropped below that was a few times when hot before running redline.

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Hemi395 · Sep 4, 2018

Ramnewbie said:
My 17 is completely stock other than redline, OCC, and k&n air filter and it has always idled at 700/750 rpm. The only time it dropped below that was a few times when hot before running redline.

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Really? Maybe they changed the idle speed to bump up the oil pressure?

Ramnewbie · Sep 4, 2018

Hemi395 said:
Really? Maybe they changed the idle speed to bump up the oil pressure?

I just thought that was normal, my old f150, the journey, my wife's last 2 grand caravans, my old Dakota, basically everything I've had that's had a tach in it has idled at 700/750.

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