Synthetic Oil
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rocket
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TomzExpress
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my bad, I'm used to 5 qts. I ordered 7, but yeah $94 for 5 qts. and filter would be a little steep. Thanks for the help though and no I wasn't looking to short fill for the extra 1/2hp!!
Diminus
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thank you sir. i will stick with my ULTRA , yeah maby il speak to the neighbor. but hes one of thise headstrong old school guys who says oil is oil and the hemi's always had a "tick" il try to show him the difference vs mine in the morning cold starts. but hes so head strong as far as im concerned he can keep his little drummer boy tappin away all christmass lol, poor ram
rocket
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jeesh , ya sure it's a tick and not a rap!,lol.
Diminus
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hahaha
rocket
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I don't need an oil change for quite awhile.......did the 70k change in the spring, and Ionly put 800 miles on her so far.....Work is a mile away...and I rock the bike when I can, plus the ol's 2014 kia takes the brunt of the weekend miles......she gets a synthetic blend btw...part of the 10 /100,000 mile warranty....
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Bump for a good article I found, when they talk about PAG or glycol it is another term for what I've described previously as group 5 oil, or better known as Redline or Motul.
Machine Lubrication .com Which Synthetic Lubricant is Superior?
From text In the temperature range of 70 to 90 degrees C, there is only a 5-percent difference between the EHL film thickness of mineral and PAO lubricants. In this same temperature range, a PAG lubricant gives thicker films ranging from 16 percent to 37 percent thicker than mineral oil.
So if you read the entire article it would appear that dino oil has slightly better film strength at lower temps, however they offer no protection when the oil is not there. That is why most oil companies use moly anyway, for when the oil is not present. But I wanted you guys to see how much better group 5 is at operating temps, this website says, "a PAG lubricant gives thicker films ranging from 16 percent to 37 percent thicker than mineral oil." This is at car operating temps between 200 and 250 degrees F. This means when you are at operating temps your engine has around 30% more lubricity and film strength then any other oil, even your group 4s.
Machine Lubrication .com Which Synthetic Lubricant is Superior?
From text In the temperature range of 70 to 90 degrees C, there is only a 5-percent difference between the EHL film thickness of mineral and PAO lubricants. In this same temperature range, a PAG lubricant gives thicker films ranging from 16 percent to 37 percent thicker than mineral oil.
So if you read the entire article it would appear that dino oil has slightly better film strength at lower temps, however they offer no protection when the oil is not there. That is why most oil companies use moly anyway, for when the oil is not present. But I wanted you guys to see how much better group 5 is at operating temps, this website says, "a PAG lubricant gives thicker films ranging from 16 percent to 37 percent thicker than mineral oil." This is at car operating temps between 200 and 250 degrees F. This means when you are at operating temps your engine has around 30% more lubricity and film strength then any other oil, even your group 4s.
rocket
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It also stated what were the performance expectations. So just everyday driving would rarely hurt a motor with a cheap oil. I totally agree with the group 5 and 4 oil standards of protection. But A cheap oil with a synthetic blend ,under normal driving can lead to a worry free existence between man an machine. Interesting read, thanks for posting.
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Your Welcome, as I stated before there always is an argument for "is it necessary to use high quality oils in a combustion engine". I personally "believe" because we use a thin oil there is, it is less important in cars running 30 weight. The good part of that info is it tells why, if you have a thin oil you definitely want the film to be as thick and strong as possible, and by using group 5 your will accomplish that by 16 to 37 percent. There is another way to make 5w20 have great film strength, by switching it to 10w40 or other thicker oils, but unfortunately we cannot do this in our Rams.
Another link from that website, basically summing up what was already covered in this thread but it goes into the history of synthetics. The Basics of Synthetic Oil Technology
When they talk about synthetics here, they are only talking about group 4 and 5. from text, There are two American Petroleum Institute (API) base oil categories that include synthetics- group iV and V. So when you read the benefit chart it is group 4 and 5.
Another link from that website, basically summing up what was already covered in this thread but it goes into the history of synthetics. The Basics of Synthetic Oil Technology
When they talk about synthetics here, they are only talking about group 4 and 5. from text, There are two American Petroleum Institute (API) base oil categories that include synthetics- group iV and V. So when you read the benefit chart it is group 4 and 5.
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rocket
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Uh, another reason for the lighter oil, is the mds system, (4 cylinders running instead of 8). I heard it (the mds) does not like to use the 30 an up oil......just what I heard from a dodge tech.......Your Welcome, as I stated before there always is an argument for "is it necessary to use high quality oils in a combustion engine". I personally "believe" because we use a thin oil there is, it is less important in cars running 30 weight. The good part of that info is it tells why, if you have a thin oil you definitely want the film to be as thick and strong as possible, and by using group 5 your will accomplish that by 16 to 37 percent. There is another way to make 5w20 have great film strength, by switching it to 10w40 or other thicker oils, but unfortunately we cannot do this in our Rams.
Another link from that website, basically summing up what was already covered in this thread but it goes into the history of synthetics. The Basics of Synthetic Oil Technology
When they talk about synthetics here, they are only talking about group 4 and 5. from text, There are two American Petroleum Institute (API) base oil categories that include synthetics- group iV and V. So when you read the benefit chart it is group 4 and 5.
NYCruiser
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This is from my 2014 owners manual. I'll probably just try to follow this:
Engine Oil Viscosity — 3.6L/5.7L Engines (1500
Models Only)
MOPAR® SAE 5W-20 engine oil approved to Chrysler
Material Standard MS-6395 or equivalent Pennzoil® or
Shell Helix® is recommended for all operating temperatures.
This engine oil improves low temperature starting
and vehicle fuel economy.
NOTE: MOPAR® SAE 5W-30 engine oil approved to
Chrysler Material Standard MS-6395 may be used when
SAE 5W-20 engine oil meeting MS-6395 is not available.
I guess this dispels the myth that 5W-30 is somehow bad for MDS systems……….
There is a description letter from Chrysler about their oil standard in this thread:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2629126&page=2
Engine Oil Viscosity — 3.6L/5.7L Engines (1500
Models Only)
MOPAR® SAE 5W-20 engine oil approved to Chrysler
Material Standard MS-6395 or equivalent Pennzoil® or
Shell Helix® is recommended for all operating temperatures.
This engine oil improves low temperature starting
and vehicle fuel economy.
NOTE: MOPAR® SAE 5W-30 engine oil approved to
Chrysler Material Standard MS-6395 may be used when
SAE 5W-20 engine oil meeting MS-6395 is not available.
I guess this dispels the myth that 5W-30 is somehow bad for MDS systems……….
There is a description letter from Chrysler about their oil standard in this thread:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2629126&page=2
TomzExpress
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If I remember correctly it says that under the 2500 part, I'll have to double check when I get home
rocket
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whaddyI say,...''msd''?? lol.....I need a break....
rocket
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never mind I got it right......still need a break thou....
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Took me a while to find the math behind that 16% to 37% thicker films of group 5, but I'm glad I did. One can expect 4 times longer bearing life with a PAG group 5 just at the 16% number, this stuff is scary good. Starting to see why guys running redline have quieter engines, even beyond the high moly content. The fact is we have better thicker film strength as the engine warms. Interesting note, until the temperature hits 131F, mineral oil actually has the thickest film, however it is not close at operating temps, group 5 has the best numbers. But the fact is when any of the oils are cold, they all have thick film strength, only one maintains a much stronger film when it is hot.
Selecting Oils with High Pressure-Viscosity Coefficient - Increase Bearing Life by More Than Four Times
As the temps get hotter, the group 5 maintains film strength. Look at 3rd graph.
From link-group 5 PAG lubricant gives thicker films than group 4 PAO lubricant at all temperatures. In other words group 4 oils do not protect metal to metal wear better then group 5, in fact it is the opposite.
Selecting Oils with High Pressure-Viscosity Coefficient - Increase Bearing Life by More Than Four Times
As the temps get hotter, the group 5 maintains film strength. Look at 3rd graph.
From link-group 5 PAG lubricant gives thicker films than group 4 PAO lubricant at all temperatures. In other words group 4 oils do not protect metal to metal wear better then group 5, in fact it is the opposite.
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It is mineral oil, group 3. Group 3 are very high quality, and I learned something new today as well, they actually perform very close to group 4 in film stength. There are other benefits of group 4 and 5 besides film strength as well, but when it comes to film strength group 3 out performs group 4 until 158 degrees and barely outperforms group 5 until 131f. but stays pretty close throughout the temperature range with group 4. Actually today I would say group 3 is pretty equal to group 4. But from 158f to 205F group 5 has clear benefits and the advantage remains consistent over all the other groups by 16 to 37%.
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Less about a brand as it is about group 5, and there are other options as well. I chose redline because it was cheaper then motul. There has been no evidence that I have found that would suggest there is a better oil then group 5, especially in the 5w20 Hemi application.
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