Synthetic Oil

Oil of Choice

  • Castrol Syntec/Edge

    Votes: 233 8.4%
  • Royal Purple

    Votes: 325 11.7%
  • AMSOil

    Votes: 396 14.3%
  • Valvoline Synpower

    Votes: 160 5.8%
  • Mobil 1

    Votes: 992 35.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 660 23.9%

  • Total voters
    2,766

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QwikKota

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What's the difference of it in a hot car. You think it stored in a cool truck or warehouse when it's being made? lol

Yeah, I know, hah. The heat itself is not an issue but the 3 remaining quarts will be a year old and there is a lot of air in the container above the oil (headspace) that might affect it. Probably minor but I tend to over think things...

It would also be less crap in my garage to store and keep track of. It's a mess as is! This is at it's best: 20150104_121701_zpskjxw1mp1.jpg
 

Hemi395

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I've been meaning to post this.

Nothing to do with my Ram, but rather my GTP.

I've been using dino quaker state in this car since I've had it. Over 16-17 years now. Never felt the hype about synthetic being SOO great. It's easy to change the oil on this car and I do it often so never felt the need to switch.

So, this is my weekend car, barley gets driven once a week.. I have noticed recently on a cold start after sitting a week. The valve train will clack for just a few seconds until the oil gets flowing. It kinda bothered me because that doesn't sound good and could cause some premature wear.

After reading this thread about moly and Pennzoil yellow bottle. I decided to switch to it. Well started up this weekend after it's been sitting two weeks. Been fixing the A/C and other stuff.
Fired it up. No clacking or noises from the valve train. NOTHING!!! Was kinda shocked..

So i'm a believer. hahaha
PYB is one of the best oils out there period. It's only downfall is the base oil isnt synthetic. But the TBN is high enough and the additive package as a whole is one of the best out there.

I'm only about 150 miles into my Redline change so I'm going to give it more time but it is noisier on cold start SO FAR on Redline than it was on PYB. At the very least if my truck doesn't like Redline I can always go back to PYB.
 

Burla

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When I switched to redline my hemi Tick was just as loud as it was before redline, until 500 mile mark or so and ever since it has been one of the quietest engines I ever had, as in my sig. My theory is that it takes many heat cycles before the Moly seeps in. Some guys have had an immediate quietness, some no difference, and one even had it worse. It definelty isn't an exact science, but most guys are loving the redline.
 

Hemi395

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So I'm at about 650 miles into my Redline run. Mostly city driving but there was a 200mi highway trip in there.

It's quieted down on startup. That stopped around 300miles in so that's definitely good.

The tick I had when the oil was 200+ degrees is definitely quieter. I would say 50-60% quieter, but its still there.

The main thing that is still impressive to me is how much less Redline seems to thin out when the oil is hot. It's still 30+ psi while stopped in drive when the oil is 200+ degrees. Both other oils I've tried in it, PYB, and PP, always were at 26-29. Not a huge difference but when dealing with 5w20 I'll take it. Overall I'm happy with Redline and the RP filter.

I did notice from various VOAs and UOAs there's a lot of zinc in Redline. I would recommend if you're going to run it long term, it would probably be a good idea to have a catch can to keep as much zinc from getting to the cats as possible. Might be totally wrong about that but a catch can never hurts anyway.
 

Burla

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Thanks for the update, I hope it continues in the right direction. Yes, Redline Zinc levels are what old oils used to be before the gov't set standards for API. Because Redline opted out of API like other top shelf oils, they can put in a higher zinc levels. I think average API is somewhere around 700ppm, but Redline has the older standard at about 1200ppm, and yes that endangers you CAT long term more then the less zinc formulas. However, most mechanics also recognize the huge benefits from having higher zinc in an engine. Zinc is the main friction modifier in any oil, much better at Moly for the task. However, it does require the oil to be circulating to function, it doesn't stick to metal like Moly does for dry startup. I am thinking out loud here, but a thought I have is if someone had a bad tick on some shelf oil, maybe adding some zinc to that might help with the tick. In other words, maybe you can get a benefit without spending a fortune on oil.

Here are some reads on zinc.

Tech 101: Zinc in oil and its effects on older engines

Performance Oils and Additives: Got Zinc?

There is a ton of stuff out there, these are good at showing the history. My theory is that even though engines have been designed to take less zinc, they still will benefit from higher zinc. Especially engines that have lubrication issues. Also, it wasn't like CATS used to get gummed out back in the 80's at super high rates. So it is quite possible your CATS will still last the life of your exhaust system even at the older 1200ppm. I suggest anyone wanting to know more about zinc to search the effects of low zinc on engines and higher zinc on CATS. I have never heard that higher zinc had anything but benefit on an engine.
 

DoubleTap

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All good quality synthetics are about the same. And it has been proven that the expensive royal purple and joe Gibbs are no better than the other quality synthetics that are far less expensive. And def don't add any of the additives. They are horrible for your oil and have actually shown that they break down the lubrication and heat protection in your oil. Look it up. They even showed that the cheap no name synthetics were pretty much just as good as Mobil 1 and castrol or valvoline, etc.
 

Burla

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Welcome to the Ram forum bud, and you have a 69 Camaro sweet! Sweetest car ever made, you lucky buzzard. You got a picture? Even though it is high-jacking this thread to post it, I'm cool with that, I don't think any of us would complain seeing a nice pic of a 69.

You may want to read this thread, there is some good info on oil and some things about your hemi and additives that benefit it.
 

hemihustlin

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Just picked up a 5l jug of
2v0j0ua.jpg
At canadian tire for 21$ plus tax lol couldnt pass that up
So now my next oci will be 5l ultimate durability and 2l defy syn blend with defy top ups!

http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GPCDOC_X_cbe_24855_key_140007079157_201203220840.pdf

In theory its a great oil but it doesnt have the api doughnut or starburst on the back it it says meets or exceeds api sl lol so those still under warranty might not use it. I doubt anyone will poison their cats but it does have higher zddp than current sm/sn spec.
For comparison:
SL is limited to 1000 ppm max phosphorous.
SM is limited to 600 ppm min/800 ppm max phosphorous.

Not to quote myself but If you guys like zddp check out quaker state defy. They say it's a low volatility formula to protect cats. Read the pdf
 

Burla

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pqia QS Defy VOA

Looks OK, has good Moly and I like the Zinc a lot. This is the 5w30. I didn't even look, is this conventional oil?
 
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soldiercowboy

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Warranty purposes to cya I use 7.5 quarts of 00W 40 full synthetic shops want like $125 to do just oil change I can get castrol, mobile 1 or royal purple for $9 a quart so oil filter and oil $75 I get the 5qt jug for $40 at advanced auto plus get it when have oil deals. 2014 2500 6.4 I do my own oil changes and I keep records of the mileage oil filter brand and type. Then I follow up with a whole vehicle inspection and all other regular service checks. This is what my dealer service supetvisor suggested to me when I found out it is full synthetic.

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Burla

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Ram put you 6.4 guys in a box with the spec MS-12633. To my knowledge the only oil that certifies this spec is Penzoil Ultra, and btw it is great oil. It is only 40 bucks for a case, here. While I wouldn't be happy at lack of choices if I bought the 6.4, I would at least accept it because they chose about the best oil you can buy to meet the high standard. Technically, they can void warranty work if they can prove you used a different oil and that was the cause of any damage. I don't use Ultra myself, I use something more expensive, but if I had the 6.4 I would definitely only use an oil that certifies Chrysler spec MS-12633, at least while under warranty.
 
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w6pea

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This has been asked before but my computer crashed. What oil comes in the Hemi 6.4L and or the Cummins 6.7L. I am putting my order in next week. I need to decide which engine, more than likely I am going with the Cummins due to 5yr/100k warranty.
Haven't been around lately due to some health problems. Not quit good to go yet, but getting there.
Thanks Guys'

I'm not prejudiced I hate everyone equally.
 

craigsez

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Didnt feel like reading 101 or more pages of this but if you really wanna know what your oil is like send a sample with trk engine,total miles and hrs and total miles on that oil to
Oils/Lubricants | POLARIS Laboratories®

Now you can see what shape your engine is in based on oil results..
Oil is pretty much oil,doesnt go bad,5000 miles may or may not be an issue,its the additive package that usually needs a refresh..Sometimes if your oil comes back in good shape,pull out a cpl liters/quarts and add a cpl and a filter to freshin things up..

If the oil is bad sorta speak its not cause of the oil,its cause the oil itself has been contaminated somehow with coolant,engine wear or fuel contamination..
 

LilRamie

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Wow, all I can say is wow. I just finished reading the entire thread and there was a ton of useful info in her, a ton.

I don't put a lot of miles on my ride and its still new with only 1700miles on it with factory breaking oil which I plan on dumping before long and doing a short pyb flush thereafter especially given I have some already sitting in my garage on a shelf. After that the jury's still out. Even after having read all of this thread it only made it that much harder to decide LOL, time for my own research on some of the popular choice contenders. On the upside I don't have the hemi tick but I'd be happy never hearing it either :) that paired with me typically holding my vehicles at least a decade I'll be opting for quality when I do, heck I'll probably end up with my own blend.

I do already have a BT catch can and had already emptied prior to this thread. With 1000 miles on it after install, I opened it, expecting a little wetness just to gauge its interval. I was shocked when I dumped out about 2oz of the bad stuff. I'll be checking frequently moving fwd.

So I'll be following up as I make some decisions etc but I wanted to know if there is any update / consensus on that cerma treatment, wow its pricy at roughly $100 for the 2oz bottle but I suppose I get it given its a one time deal. Also did anyone actually do a UOA on it, I suspect not given its price...

Also want to give a BIG thank you in advance for the oil filter zip lock bag trick, that's always been my biggest complaint when changing my oil. I'll definetly be utilizing that technique moving forwad. And also a thanks for the magnet / plug trick, I'll be utilizing that one too.

So glad I didn't skimp and pull the tldr, I would have missed out. Anyone else that has I recommend going back and starting at the becoming when you have some time, its worth the read. Is at one point something sounds like the ticket until 20 pages later, ie theres no silver bullet that I picked up on.

Oh and Burla I was bummed you didn't do that second redline UOA, I was really curios to see how the wear metals fared in the analysis after that prior flush and initial run through having been done with the understandable wear of a new engine.

For me I will be out of the gate going to a better weight such as 0w30 if avail in the one I choose if not the 5w30. I don't run the MDS as it is and just this weekend put in my new PCM and diablo sport tune, so I will be turning my MDS off permanently later today.

Thanks again guys.

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LilRamie

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Ah I forgot to add, thanks for the Blackstone kit link, I went ahead and ordered the free kit in advance. I've never used there service despite knowing about it, but hey free is free, they may have just played it right and earned a new customer when the time comes for a sample analysis by me.

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RAM_Designs

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The main thing that is still impressive to me is how much less Redline seems to thin out when the oil is hot. It's still 30+ psi while stopped in drive when the oil is 200+ degrees. Both other oils I've tried in it, PYB, and PP, always were at 26-29.


See this seems really odd to me. Even with the factory fill, all warmed up and at a stop light, I was at 40psi, maybe a hair more. Same with the 10w-30 PYB that I'm using...55psi while cruising, and 40-42psi when stopped in drive. I used the large and small filter for our Hemis and get nearly identical psi readings.
 

Hemi395

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Thats weird because my buddy has a Laramie and his is around the same warmed up at idle as mine, 25-29psi.
 

Burla

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Oh and Burla I was bummed you didn't do that second redline UOA, I was really curios to see how the wear metals fared in the analysis after that prior flush and initial run through having been done with the understandable wear of a new engine.


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Yet partner, yet. I still can get the second UOA at the 2 year mark. It would only have the top off from changing the filter and a cerma additive added at the one year mark.

My thought on Cerma, I wouldn't buy it again but it also isn't snake oil or harmful like most additives are.

Hemi395's point about redline thinning less...

Visc= the lower the visc number the thinner the oil is running.

PQIA has all of the information at operating temps posted below, and redline website has the stats for that oil.

Visc at operating temps is what you guys want to look at. The Redline 5w30 is about 10 percent "thicker" at operating temps then penzoil yellow bottle. Thicker isn't the perfect word, but anyhow redline loses less visc at operating temp, penzoil yellow bottle does get thinner at this weight. Usually speaking 20 weights are closer visc at operating temps across the board. I just don't have the PYB 5w20 operating temp visc on hand. 5w30 PYB is 10.35 at 100c "operating temp" and Redline 5w30 is 11.9 at the same operating temp. BTW, Penzoil Ultra is 9.9 at the same operating temp as well. PYB is slighty "thicker" then Ultra wow on that? Platinum is 10 visc on the same operating temp. Amsoil SS is 10.7 visc at operating temps. Redline oil loses 10 percent less visc then Amsoil and close to 20 percent less then the high end penzoils at operating temp in the 5w30 weights. Mobil 1 and Motul 330v have 11.0 visc at operating temp. Some oils use visc improvers thatwill give them better numbers, but make them more suseptable for shear or wear, but Redline aint one of them. Redline numbers are the best w/o the help of any improvers, which is why I use the stuff.

Yes this is all irrelevant, unless you are running 5w30, but at this weight there is real benefit from running group 5 here, unless you subscribe to the thinner the better.


If you find the PYB 5w20 for comparision, the Redline 5w20 is 9.0 at operating temp. Like I said, because 20 weights are already so thin, it would be hard to stay thick at operating temps, even with group 5 oil is the base. I would say all 5w20's are probably right at 9 at operating temps, my best guess.

Visc isn't the end all be all with film strength, but they are closely related. So even though at 20 weight all the oils will likely be flowing the same rate, it is very possible some brands have better film strength. To what extent is hard to guess, but at one weight higher the 30's the numbers are very tangible.

In a normal running engine would it makes a big difference? Probably not. But if you believe the Hemi is lubricationally challenged, then maybe you would opt for the oil that runs the thickest at operating temps. Or not, to each his own. I post the facts, you decide what oil you want. Also, PYB really looks good for a conventional. Lotsa options...
 
Last edited:

noupf

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Wow, all I can say is wow. I just finished reading the entire thread and there was a ton of useful info in her, a ton.

I don't put a lot of miles on my ride and its still new with only 1700miles on it with factory breaking oil which I plan on dumping before long and doing a short pyb flush thereafter especially given I have some already sitting in my garage on a shelf. After that the jury's still out. Even after having read all of this thread it only made it that much harder to decide LOL, time for my own research on some of the popular choice contenders. On the upside I don't have the hemi tick but I'd be happy never hearing it either :) that paired with me typically holding my vehicles at least a decade I'll be opting for quality when I do, heck I'll probably end up with my own blend.

I do already have a BT catch can and had already emptied prior to this thread. With 1000 miles on it after install, I opened it, expecting a little wetness just to gauge its interval. I was shocked when I dumped out about 2oz of the bad stuff. I'll be checking frequently moving fwd.

So I'll be following up as I make some decisions etc but I wanted to know if there is any update / consensus on that cerma treatment, wow its pricy at roughly $100 for the 2oz bottle but I suppose I get it given its a one time deal. Also did anyone actually do a UOA on it, I suspect not given its price...

Also want to give a BIG thank you in advance for the oil filter zip lock bag trick, that's always been my biggest complaint when changing my oil. I'll definetly be utilizing that technique moving forwad. And also a thanks for the magnet / plug trick, I'll be utilizing that one too.

So glad I didn't skimp and pull the tldr, I would have missed out. Anyone else that has I recommend going back and starting at the becoming when you have some time, its worth the read. Is at one point something sounds like the ticket until 20 pages later, ie theres no silver bullet that I picked up on.

Oh and Burla I was bummed you didn't do that second redline UOA, I was really curios to see how the wear metals fared in the analysis after that prior flush and initial run through having been done with the understandable wear of a new engine.

For me I will be out of the gate going to a better weight such as 0w30 if avail in the one I choose if not the 5w30. I don't run the MDS as it is and just this weekend put in my new PCM and diablo sport tune, so I will be turning my MDS off permanently later today.

Thanks again guys.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk


what is the magnet / plug trick you speak of?
 
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