Synthetic Oil

Burla · Dec 6, 2017

I'm sure you will make it, but just in case can you will me your redline? That is capital B in Burla for the legal stuff.

tjfdesmo · Dec 6, 2017

Burla said:
So we often talk about what oils are good for hemi tick, but what oils are bad choices for hemi tick? At first, I would bet many guys would say Pennzoil GtL's make their engine louder, but I haven't heard a lot of real ticking on them other then some 20 weights.

However, one oil comes to mind as being bad for hemi tick- Amsoil. I'm being serious, we had a member here tj who sells Amsoil and his engine ticks on Amsoil but not PUP. If we are being honest and truthful should we not be discussing how this can be possible? I have no issues discussing redline in either derogatory or successful terms when it is a truth. I bring forward every time redline has derogatory info, I even go out of my way to post it in syn thread when the posters may have not opted to, kap was the last example of this.

So we know the single knock on GtL is maybe not the best for metal to metal protection. That something about the density of the mineral group 3's are a little better at this, so we thought? If that is true and kind of follows the experiences of the forum, how is it possible for Amsoil's group 3 SS have a hemi tick going on then have PUP end it? I can only hypothesize there has to be something in the base oil that is detrimental to metal to metal wear that is not in the GtL. I hope TJ comes back and discusses this more, what other oils were ticking in his Hemi besides Amsoil? We know Amsoil is ticking in many hemi's, hopefully we peel this onion back and get to the center. H395's engine ticked on Amsoil as well, was it worse on Amsoil or PUP. But he didn't try many group 3 5w30's? Thta is too bad, it would be nice to see if some of those maybe got the tick. As it stands now I would have to say Pennzoil synthetics and even worse Amsoil for trucks experiencing hemi tick. It would be nice for guys that has hemi tick to come back and shed more light on what's going on. We have spent too much time on Redline's success's, we haven't talked about what oils are failing us Ram owners.

My updates are infrequent only because I accumulate so few miles. I still have about 400 miles until my next change when I will go back to PUP. And you are correct that my 6.4 was noisy on PUP, but it was just "general noisiness", not tick.

I don't come here to argue, and I have no axe to grind for or against any brand of oil. I have posted on my factual experiences through my ownership of this particular truck. I have owned dozens of vehicles for business and personal use, and none as fussy as this Hemi as far as oil goes.

Burla · Dec 6, 2017

So how many oils have you tried tj and how many had the tick? I thought you already went back to PUP, no? You use 0w40's? Have you thought about Castrol egde in 0w40?

R.L.K. · Dec 6, 2017

Burla said:
I'm sure you will make it, but just in case can you will me your redline?

LOLsure thing , you'll be getting 4 gals of 10W-30 ....but also along with 5 gals of 5W-30 [emoji6]I'll have the wife send you all my RP Filters too , I think I have 2ea 20-820s and 3ea 10-48s [emoji16][emoji16]

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Hemi395 · Dec 6, 2017

PUP and Amsoil SS both ticked but differently. PUP ticked at a hot idle but not nearly as bad as PP 5w20. I literally thought my Hemi was going to grenade on that. PUP had no cold start tick.

Amsoil SS 5w30 ran pretty well in my truck. Hot idle was virtually nonexistent, much like Redline 5w30. However I had some pretty good cold start tick with SS.

Another thing to note is the wifes Grand Cherokee rattled/ticked for a few seconds on cold starts with PP 0w20 and is whisper quiet on Amsoil SS 0w20.

Burla · Dec 6, 2017

So Amsoil was better then your PUP run? Sounds like PP was not good. You never had mineral group 3's in there besides Amsoil?

Kap1 · Dec 6, 2017

My truck still at dealership after 40 days, and 25 days before that to fix manifold bolts. First mechanic was backlogged, then lifters were on the backorder, now they replaced leaking cylinder, and keep pushing the eta date.

I'll report back when I get the truck back. But for now disregard my last post regarding lifters and cam, as dealer didn't confirm that.

Rampant · Dec 6, 2017

Burla said:
So we often talk about what oils are good for hemi tick, but what oils are bad choices for hemi tick? At first, I would bet many guys would say Pennzoil GtL's make their engine louder, but I haven't heard a lot of real ticking on them other then some 20 weights.

However, one oil comes to mind as being bad for hemi tick- Amsoil. I'm being serious, we had a member here tj who sells Amsoil and his engine ticks on Amsoil but not PUP. If we are being honest and truthful should we not be discussing how this can be possible? I have no issues discussing redline in either derogatory or successful terms when it is a truth. I bring forward every time redline has derogatory info, I even go out of my way to post it in syn thread when the posters may have not opted to, kap was the last example of this.

So we know the single knock on GtL is maybe not the best for metal to metal protection. That something about the density of the mineral group 3's are a little better at this, so we thought? If that is true and kind of follows the experiences of the forum, how is it possible for Amsoil's group 3 SS have a hemi tick going on then have PUP end it? I can only hypothesize there has to be something in the base oil that is detrimental to metal to metal wear that is not in the GtL. I hope TJ comes back and discusses this more, what other oils were ticking in his Hemi besides Amsoil? We know Amsoil is ticking in many hemi's, hopefully we peel this onion back and get to the center. H395's engine ticked on Amsoil as well, was it worse on Amsoil or PUP. But he didn't try many group 3 5w30's? Thta is too bad, it would be nice to see if some of those maybe got the tick. As it stands now I would have to say Pennzoil synthetics and even worse Amsoil for trucks experiencing hemi tick. It would be nice for guys that has hemi tick to come back and shed more light on what's going on. We have spent too much time on Redline's success's, we haven't talked about what oils are failing us Ram owners.

I'll bite on this. Great topic for discussion. Because an engine ticks on one oil, does that mean that oil is a failure? How do you define success? My 6.0 and 5.3 LS motors have ticked their entire lives and still do with over 220k miles on each of them. They run like new.

Hundreds of thousands of Hemis out there ticking and keep layin' down the miles on all different kinds of oils. I definitely wouldn't call masking a tick a "success". When you have over 200k on that motor with one oil and no failure, THAT oil is a success.

How do you define failure? A wiped cam lobe? I'll go with that. So the current scoreboard within these walls looks like this:

Failures: (Wiped Cam Lobes)

Redline: 1

Amsoil: 0

Serious question: Has anyone seen or heard of any internal engine damage on a Hemi using Amsoil? Not a youtube hack with a cummins.

Burla · Dec 6, 2017

tjfdesmo said:
I don't come here to argue, and I have no axe to grind for or against any brand of oil. I have posted on my factual experiences through my ownership of this particular truck. I have owned dozens of vehicles for business and personal use, and none as fussy as this Hemi as far as oil goes.

There was a guy here Occarides or something like that. His tick was worsened by Redline oil, and we discussed quite a bit. That isn't grinding an axe on Redline, it was just the truth of it. Never questioned his truthfulness or had a rift over it, I believed him 100%. And it is a real risk with an oil that can clean away old slime like Redline. Unfortunately he never followed up if that was long term issue or what. If we aren't here to be truthful about the experiences, then what are we doing here.

Ramnewbie · Dec 6, 2017

Burla said:
So Amsoil was better then your PUP run? Sounds like PP was not good. You never had mineral group 3's in there besides Amsoil?

Lmao, you just won't give it up Burla, you don't know that Amsoil SS is mineral group 3, no-one does, especially the old formula.

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Burla · Dec 6, 2017

Rampant said:
I'll bite on this. Great topic for discussion. Because an engine ticks on one oil, does that mean that oil is a failure? How do you define success? My 6.0 and 5.3 LS motors have ticked their entire lives and still do with over 220k miles on each of them. They run like new.

Hundreds of thousands of Hemis out there ticking and keep layin' down the miles on all different kinds of oils. I definitely wouldn't call masking a tick a "success". When you have over 200k on that motor with one oil and no failure, THAT oil is a success.

How do you define failure? A wiped cam lobe? I'll go with that. So the current scoreboard within these walls looks like this:

Failures: (Wiped Cam Lobes)

Redline: 1

Amsoil: 0

Serious question: Has anyone seen or heard of any internal engine damage on a Hemi using Amsoil? Not a youtube hack with a cummins.

That is a double discussion, are we talking about oil killing ticks or engine failures? I wouldn't go calling someone who has helped millions a hack because you don't like the result of Amsoil usage in his truck.

Kaps engine never stopped ticking, even with his 70k redline miles, which happens about 20% of the time where redline doesn't get the tick. No other oil comes close to an 80% success rate against that tick.. So are we talking about tick or engine failures?

Redline failed to end Kap's tick, Redline didn't cause Kaps tick, didn't sludge his engine like the Amsoil Cummins. Two different things.

Are you seriously calling Bundy's garage a hack?

Ramnewbie · Dec 6, 2017

Burla said:
That is a double discussion, are we talking about oil killing ticks or engine failures? I wouldn't go calling someone who has helped millions a hack because you don't like the result of Amsoil usage in his truck.

Kaps engine never stopped ticking, even with his 70k redline miles, which happens about 20% of the time where redline doesn't get the tick. No other oil comes close to an 80% success rate against that tick.. So are we talking about tick or engine failures?

Well, I think engine failures would be more important than the tic. Of course when it starts banging and not a tic I view that as a failure.

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R.L.K. · Dec 6, 2017

Kap1 said:
My truck still at dealership after 40 days, and 25 days before that to fix manifold bolts. First mechanic was backlogged, then lifters were on the backorder, now they replaced leaking cylinder, and keep pushing the eta date.

I'll report back when I get the truck back. But for now disregard my last post regarding lifters and cam, as dealer didn't confirm that.

So per the dealer mechanic your cam & lifters are fine ?
How long / how many miles have you used Redline Sir ?
What weight Redline were you using ?

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Ramnewbie · Dec 6, 2017

Taking Amsoil and Redline out of the equation, I know that some oils are just better at quieting just general noise in an engine. I don't know that that makes them a better lube, just makes you feel better because it's quieter.

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Rampant · Dec 6, 2017

Burla said:
That is a double discussion, are we talking about oil killing ticks or engine failures? I wouldn't go calling someone who has helped millions a hack because you don't like the result of Amsoil usage in his truck.

It's not a double discussion because masking the tick isn't a success in this mechanic's opinion. To a non-mechanic it may be a success, but to be honest, who cares? When it breaks, do you take it to a non-mechanic? No, because they are not the subject matter expert. Motor honey will do that too. So will sawdust.

I'm pretty sure Amsoil would have been out of business by now if that were an accurate representation of the results it yields. Sincerely, it's not that I don't like the "results" that video shows, it's that there is no proof of anything. No documentation, nothing. It reminds me of those bot review slide show vids. Anyone could go out and buy a POS and tear it down and say the previous owner told them he used whatever oil it's whole life and blame it on that company. Then throw it on the tubes. That is what hacks do.

Hemi395 · Dec 6, 2017

Burla said:
So Amsoil was better then your PUP run? Sounds like PP was not good. You never had mineral group 3's in there besides Amsoil?

Well "better" isn't the word I'd use. It developed the startup tick within 500 miles whereas it took 3300 for PUP to develop the hot idle tick. PP 20wt has made both our vehicles have loud, rattly engines.

Now that you mention it no I didn't try any group 3 synthetics. I was going to try QSUD 5w30 but I was getting tired of experimenting at that point

Burla · Dec 6, 2017

So oils that leave a tick are better at lube?

Burla · Dec 6, 2017

Masking a tick, or giving what that application needs to not tick, million dollar question. I prefer to not have the tick, but that's just me. If you talk to someone long enough, they will convince you that low zddp, low calcium, and none pao ester based oils are actually better then the opposite. Screw the trade journals, nothing but hype there.

U&A · Dec 6, 2017

Burla said:
I know, I liked them as well, especially back in early 2000's, especially when they had high calcium, high zinc, pao base stocks. But the question would remain, why do you still like them when your engine ticked on it? I mean any other oil a guy has a tick on one oil and then it doesn't tick on another oil, the oil that ticked would be a goner from his "like list". What makes someone brand loyal if not results, you had a bad experience with Amsoil SS as many other guys, why do we still call that a good oil if other oils aren't ticking your hemi? You never tried PUP? It would be very interesting to see if your engine ticked on Amsoil but not PUP like TJ's did. No pressure

The only thing i like that i will buy anymore is the P.I. Gas additive, the Saber 2stroke oil, and the HD spray grease.... :roflsquared:

thats why no more memberships and thats all i like of theirs. No more motor oil. The saber oil truly has respect from a lot of chainsaw rebuilders.

PUP 0w40 was the first oil i used off the lot. Did 3 super short free oil changes with it and than one change myself. I thought the engine was to noisy on it. That is when I switched to Amoil 0w40 and the tic started there.

Ramnewbie · Dec 6, 2017

Burla said:
So oils that leave a tick are better at lube?

Or are oils that quiet it gumming things up? Lots of extra zinc and moly are ok for wear surfaces but what about the small oil galleys. Could be reducing flow.

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AMSOil

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Mobil 1

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