More Cam Questions

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PCA4208

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So I know that the 6.1 cams will fit in 3rd gen hemi's. but then I stumbled across that the 6.4 cam will work in newer hemi's. so my question is will the 6.4 work in 3rd gens? I mean its a good performance cam for like 60-70 bucks, then add new springs and its set. But if the 6.4 won't work, why not? Too much lift? Lobe separation? Or what?
 

Hemi450hp

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The 6.4 cam will not work on the old hemi motor. It is setup completely different and isn't even close. The 6.1 cam will work and is a cheap upgrade. I gained about 25hp with my 6.1 cam, but no gains in tq though.
 
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PCA4208

PCA4208

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Cool. Good to know. Would the springs work? Or would they be too stiff? I guess just all 6.1 stuff will be the easiest way.
 

Hemi450hp

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the new VVT motor is completely different than yours, so there are very few internal parts that work for both. You don't need new springs for just a 6.1 cam. You can add them for extra insurance, but they are not necessary.
 

KGBIGCOUNTRY

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If Matt cant get you hooked up on the stuff hit me up. There are a few 6.1 cams floating around the shop. Only part I will urge would be springs where Matt didnt just because 03 and early 04 Hemis were subject to valve spring failure. The springs are not expensive just changing them is not the easiest unless you have correct tools. You will not notice alot of difference in sounf because of the wide LSA on the 6.1 but topend will feel better.
 
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PCA4208

PCA4208

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I might have to take you up on that sometime. Do you know who sells a relatively cheap hemi spring compressor? Or do you know how to make one?
 

KGBIGCOUNTRY

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There was a guy awhile back making a home made one but I never have used that. We have the Miller Tool at the shop but that is $300, you can use a bench mount clamp style if you remove the heads but then your talking head bolts and gaskets. All up to you on which way you want to go. When I changed my springs years ago on the stock heads we pulled the heads and did them on the bench. Honestly its not that much more work to pull the heads while your there.
 
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PCA4208

PCA4208

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Cool. Well I guess this is going to be a bigger project than I thought. I think I'm going to acquire the parts then do it during the summer sometime when I don't need my truck everyday. I'm most likely going to pull the heads then do a bit of post and polish on them, then put new comp cams springs and retainers. Should be a good 1-2 day job, depending on how diligently I work.
 

KGBIGCOUNTRY

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Comp Behive springs had issues in the past with the 5.7 heads just to let ya know. The 6.1 springs with the buckets will handle what your going to want to do. Comp has possibly changed their stuff but there has not been a 6.1 spring failure. If you want more bottom end and still work with your 03 you could run a Comp 260 cam for around $350-400. 03's tend to differ alot on what the PCM will adapt to so its a chance the 260 might stumble at idle.
 
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PCA4208

PCA4208

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I really dont mind the bottom end power now. I think the 6.1 springs and cam will do it for me. But if i get the 6.1 springs do I need to get new retainers? They are only like 1.98 from Factory Mopar so I figure why not. Also I just put all prices together and the whole things plus a 6.1 oil pump should runs me $386.10 before tax and shipping.
 

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The retainers are up to you. They are cheap insurance like you see. The 6.1 oil pump will require pulling the pan to do it correctly. Figure in coolant, oil for break in and oil to run in it along with filters into your costs.
 

ST-8

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Comp Behive springs had issues in the past with the 5.7 heads just to let ya know. The 6.1 springs with the buckets will handle what your going to want to do. Comp has possibly changed their stuff but there has not been a 6.1 spring failure. If you want more bottom end and still work with your 03 you could run a Comp 260 cam for around $350-400. 03's tend to differ alot on what the PCM will adapt to so its a chance the 260 might stumble at idle.

When you say 6.1 w/ the buckets do you mean that sleeve? I was wondering what that was for, i figured something to help w/ heat it looked like the lower springs are pretty close to where the manifolds are.
 

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KGBIGCOUNTRY

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They are sopp to help support the spring and keep it from moving around.
 

03MopaRamman

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All perfect and Important Points Given by Matt and Ken here and I only say cause I have done the 6.1 install on my truck twice. Some additional Points. Retainers I re-used mine, Keep the buckets, I removed mine but only because of my T-Handled long spring Tool I used. The Dragon-Accord Home made Tool I aquired later and with it you will not have to remove the brake booster or buckets if leaving the heads on. I have personnally found a broken 5.7 bucket tab on my car when swapping springs but given the machined circle the broken piece was just sitting underneath and I grabbed it with a magnet.

The 6.1 oil Pump pick-up tube on the trucks is long, and what I did was just lower the pan enough to get my hand in there to remove the bolt midway in that attaches it to the block (small ratchet wrench) once undone you can undue the second bolt that threads into/under the pump.

Couple other parts to consider and are cheap.
-Timing Chain and/or at a minimum new Chain Tensioner Plate and black sliders ($16)
-Valve seals if doing springs (I never thought of this....before...Damn) just slide on new ones when springs are changed ($25 I think/felpro set).

- With the 6.1 Cam I would consider doing headers to try and regain the low end torque lost.
-Inspect the damper Rubber material for deterioration and rips and or if its starting to squeeze out where bonded together, or spend $300 on an SLP or like I did just put in a new OEM Mopar on at about $65.00 (Good insurance).

Good Luck and glad to see some 03 action on here. Danny

Edit: I am removing my ported TB this week and may offer it for sale as per the Forum Rules in the near future on the For Sale thread.
 
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PCA4208

PCA4208

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All perfect and Important Points Given by Matt and Ken here and I only say cause I have done the 6.1 install on my truck twice. Some additional Points. Retainers I re-used mine, Keep the buckets, I removed mine but only because of my T-Handled long spring Tool I used. The Dragon-Accord Home made Tool I aquired later and with it you will not have to remove the brake booster or buckets if leaving the heads on. I have personnally found a broken 5.7 bucket tab on my car when swapping springs but given the machined circle the broken piece was just sitting underneath and I grabbed it with a magnet.

The 6.1 oil Pump pick-up tube on the trucks is long, and what I did was just lower the pan enough to get my hand in there to remove the bolt midway in that attaches it to the block (small ratchet wrench) once undone you can undue the second bolt that threads into/under the pump.

Couple other parts to consider and are cheap.
-Timing Chain and/or at a minimum new Chain Tensioner Plate and black sliders ($16)
-Valve seals if doing springs (I never thought of this....before...Damn) just slide on new ones when springs are changed ($25 I think/felpro set).

- With the 6.1 Cam I would consider doing headers to try and regain the low end torque lost.
-Inspect the damper Rubber material for deterioration and rips and or if its starting to squeeze out where bonded together, or spend $300 on an SLP or like I did just put in a new OEM Mopar on at about $65.00 (Good insurance).

Good Luck and glad to see some 03 action on here. Danny

Edit: I am removing my ported TB this week and may offer it for sale as per the Forum Rules in the near future on the For Sale thread.

Thanks for the tips, and what mm is your throttle body? And an 03 I'm assuming?
Also I do have the Doug's mid length headers, so I may be able to pic up some low end there. Also where is this tool to remove springs without removing the brake booster being removed? And by the way of things look, the 6.1 oil pump may be more of a hassle then I thought, being a lowered truck, oil pan is already low enough, now I have to drop it? I think it may hit the k member or something of that sort.
 

03MopaRamman

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With the Oil pan it will ride on the k-member but enough room to get your hand in but you need to undo all the bolts and the bell housing lower cover. Not a big deal as the oil pan gasket is re-usable rubber on two sides of a windage type plate that is mostly hollow and uses no RTV.

If you remove the oil pump bolts you may be able to turn it clockwise enough to lift up on the tube so you can undo the short nut. If you cannot do it no problem but with the pump in place you can still change out the tensioner plate but not the crank slide on gear and timing chain. I may have some pics of the procedure, will get back to you!

Edit: The TB is an OLD Moes Performance 85mm (Pre-Matt so not to be confused with his new line being Offered) that was done from a new 03 core by BT. It came with a knife edge but you can use your plate. I just have a feeling that it doesn't like my Truck but want to swap it and run the OEM first to see if my theory is correct, ( I have run it with two other Cam Combo's and the Crazy Spartan got along well with it and in really cold weather had problems with limpe Mode on occassion) Now the 03's are different one to another so she may work awesome on one truck and not so good on another. I paid a bit for it but when time comes I will give you an awesome deal seeing I will have no use for it if I decide to leave it off. Will PM you when if and when I get to that stage if you like.

Lastly are you still looking for a Cam?
 
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PCA4208

PCA4208

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Cool beans. And ya I think I'm still searching for a cam, either hopefully get one from someone here (doesn't have to be the 6.1 if its a good deal and not damaged) or I'll end up getting a new OEM 6.1 from one of the factory parts suppliers here. Same goes for springs. I'll just REALLY have to talk my dad into it first, He's not too big on the tearing the engine apart thing.
 

03MopaRamman

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Yeh, Easy Stuff working on these! Even if I gave you the Cam it would cost as much as a new One to New Mexico LOL.

Try and get an AC Version (2006 DOM), Talk to our new Vendor he'll know! And when you get it don't worry about the USE BY date on the Box!
 

ST-8

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I had a 6.1 cam I was gonna install but after asking on other forums I deided to wait heard good things about the 6.1 but heard it wasn't a big gain an didn't want to put it in an be dissapointed. so I waited til I could find a 260 or sidewinder.
 
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