2000 Ram 3500 Soft Brakes

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kminnich

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v10
Firstly, let me clarify, I am by no means an automotive mechanic. I have a 2000 Ram 3500 4X4 that has been experiencing brake problems for some time now. The symptoms were/are soft pedal, brake light would come on occasionally then go out, the brakes would grab occasionally, and the brake lights remain on for about 15 seconds after releasing the pedal
I couldn't figure out what was wrong so I took it to a BrakeMax in Tucson AZ, they replaced the booster unit, master cylinder, some brake lines, 2 wheel cylinders, power steering line to booster, steering gear box, power steering pump & reservoir, did a power steering flush, and a brake system flush ($2000.00!!!).
They kept the truck for two days and when I went to pick it up the breaks were still soft! When I press the pedal it would slowly sink all the way to the floor. The truck would stop but it does so kind of slowly. The mechanic said that there is air in the power steering system that will dissipate after a couple of days. I am thinking that I just received the royal shaft without the pleasure of Vaseline!
Given, all the parts that were replaced, the flushing’s, and bleeding what else could possibly be wrong with this trucks brake system? Also, since I feel no change in the before/after repair how do I handle this with the business, they obviously replaced a bunch of parts that did not need replacing?

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
 

dapepper9

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Air doesn't bleed off in time. It's a sealed hydraulic system. Hence the reason for a bleed screw. There is definitely air in the system. I also don't think all of that needed replaced, probably just the booster. Find a different shop
 

dapepper9

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I say threaten court if they don't finish the job free of charge or refund your money for taking you for a ride. Dip****s like that give others a bad name
 

fla crkr 1 ton

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It sounds like you had air in the brake system or a bad master cyl. I suppose this has a hydro boost system since they changed all those steering parts [for no apparent reason]. The power steering system will rid itself of air because it is vented however the brake system is sealed it must be free of air to operate properly. If in fact they changed all these parts [i don't believe they did] then they did not bench bleed the master cyl. prior to install and they didn't bleed the system properly,basically you got screwed. You need to get this fixed properly because it is unsafe as is. My sugestion is find a local mechanic [back yard guy if need be] you can go to to have your work done plus get educated before you take your vehicle in for any kind of work so you never get hosed again, go to your local classic car cruise in or hot rod car show and ask around those guys have mechanics they trust with their cars or you may find one that does side work, uneducated vehicle owners are easy prey for places like that because you are at their mercy and only after the fact you realize you have been had. We had Just Brakes repair places here that the Florida Dept. of Commerce shut down because they were ripping people off, they had their vehicle dept go thru a vehicle and replace everything then took it in to them and they charged them for everything not in one place but every place they took it so they shut them down and fined the hell out of them some of them folded some reopened but they have never lived down the reputation. I hope this helps sorry for your issues.
 
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kminnich

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v10
Thanks for the responses!

I had them show me the parts they replaced. The main reason for the replacements was seepage around the connections or where the metal coupling gets crimped to a rubber hose. Note that I have never had any evidence of a leak on the ground, of any fluids, since I have owned the truck. I think going to court will only add to the total cost? The power steering pump went out as they were test driving after repairs, I actually whitnessed it happing.

How long should I allow the power steering system to "vent" it's self before going back to the brake shop? Is there a.way to help it bleed the air?. How do I know if the problem is in the power steering system or the brake system since they both seem to be a single system? I.e power steering pump providing power assist to the brake system.

I either read or someone told me that a major cause of soft/spongey brakes on vehicles with this type of system is that the rear brakes are out of adjustment is this true?

BTW, the shop I took the truck to has a good standing in the city of Tucson, city awards and all. I understand that this doesn't mean that they won't take advantage of a situation, and hopefully they will resolve this issue properly. I just need to make sure that I go back armed with good information so as to get the problem resolved.
 

dapepper9

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The steering venting i wouldn't worry about. What you can do is let the vehicle idle for 5-10 minutes with the reservoir cap off but that's about all it needs.

I doubt it's the drum adjustment, the fronts would still give a nice positive feel. More than likely it's air in the lines they missed, poorly bleed master cylinder, or it's also possible the pressure regulator is failing/air in it.

Edit: the court thing was not of an idle that thing. Idk reading your first post fired me up a bit lol
 

Gr8bawana

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Sounds like a rip-off to me.
 

monteholic

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the pedal is "slowly" sinking all the way to the floor

so you hit the pedal and it doesn't immediately sink right to the floor, you are getting a pedal then slowly sinks...correct?

I (as a master mechanic) can only consider 2 causes...

a leak...which would show up on the ground

or a bad master cylinder, fluid passing the seals

can up pump up the pedal and it hold? or does it still sink?
 
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kminnich

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Absolutely no visible leaks, the MC was replaced, if I pump the brakes the firm up about 3/4 full; continuing to apply pressure-- the pedal slowly goes completely to the floor. Please note that the symptoms are the same now as they were prior to taking the truck in for repair. That is why I took it in. Before taking it in I did a pressure bleed-- no visible leaks and no improvement. I figured I would let the pros handle it, but apparently it has them baffled also?
 

monteholic

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then it has to be the master cylinder

I can't tell you how many I've had that were bad right out of the box, esp if it was a "rebuilt" one

if it was air in the system, it would be soft but it wouldn't continue to drop
 
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kminnich

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I forgot to mention that the pedal seems to have a problem returning also. I notice that the brake lights remain on for almost a minute after I release the pedal. Is there a way to test the MC? Could the combination valve have anything to do with it? I am simply trying to get all possible solutions prior to taking it back.
 

monteholic

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fluid is getting past the seals not letting the piston to return
 
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kminnich

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Ok, thanks for all the information! I will be calling the repair facility early Monday to have them re-do what they didn't do in the first place. I will let you all know the results. Sure sounds like a bad replacement MC or perhaps the rears out of adjustment. We'll see...
 

Max78

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I went through new 3 clutch master cylinders that behaved identically to your brakes. They were bypassing fluid internally just as Monteholic said. Don't trust parts store crap, I would tell the shop your expecting factory replacement parts at no charge to you, not the cheap parts store crap that the may or may not have replaced that are clearly not working. . .

Btw, nice to see someone else for the Tucson area! I usually do all the work myself but when I do a Job that I don't have the specialty tools for there is only one person I trust, but hes swamped with work all the time and not looking for any new customers.

I have never been to these guys but it BM screws you over check out Quality Lube & Tune (3631 W Ina Rd, Tucson, AZ 85741) on Ina and Thornydale, the have some pretty badass rigs out-front and look like they know their stuff, maybe the could help you?

Otherwise I have had a good experience with this Jack Furrier location (4291 W Ina Rd, Tucson, AZ 85741).

Let us know how it goes!
 
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Wow I had the EXACT same brake issue....to the floor-drift to a stop.Bought a new ($74) Master Cylinder from Advance Auto...did bench bleed stuck it in (Took like 5 min!!) brakes are BACK!!
 
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