Lift Basics for 2nd gen 4x4 Rams

I hope the mod(s) will forgive me but this is my 950th post. I 've posted this info on and off over the years, but never all of it in one spot.
Maybe this will help some of you younger 2nd gen owners out with some basic info on how to properly lift a 2nd gen 4x4. You can't really cheat on the basic rules of axle travel and 4 link triangulation.

BTW this info also applies to later HD rams with front coil and rear leaf springs.

I read a lot of posts where Ram owners try to fit the largest tire under the least amount of lift. That pretty much works on a street truck but I consider a functional suspension one that works with the tire/wheel combo in any situation. If you have to creep over speed bumps or curbs to get into parking lots without rubbing that's pretty much a failure.

One of the most basic questions asked on Ram forums is how much lift do I need for x sized tires? While fitment is based on a couple other factors such as wheel backspacing and centering, I'll cover the lift basics here.

We'll start with the front suspension. The two ways of adding lift to a Ram is either coil springs or spacers. Rather than debate the logic of one over the other, I'll focus on what happens when you use either.
As a rule of thumb, for every 2 inches you add in lift to your Ram you will move the front axle back about 3/4 of an inch and uncenter under the frame about the same amount. So a 3 inch spacer/spring would move the axle about an inch. A 5 inch (another common size) spring would move your axle back and over about 2 inches, etc. Obviously this causes caster and dog legging issues along with severe triangulation of the factory track bar, control arms and ball joints. It degrades the ride because the of the control arm angles, and places unrealistic loads on shocks, ball joints and the afore mentioned track bar. The front sway bars ability to control body roll is also compromised to the angle of the links which causes them to deflect under load rather than load the bar and vehicle, destroying handling. I'm going to explain in a moment why a properly lifted vehicle retains this piece.

This why quality manufacturers go to great lengths to design suspension systems and not just lifts. A decent suspension system not only lifts the vehicle, but retains a decent ride, handling within reason (NOT removing sway bars) and allow for factory settings of caster and toe in. Cheaper easier to install systems tend to use factory mounting points as much as possible and may require some drilling to bolt things up. Think Rough Country or similar. Higher quality kits will make sure the control arms are as parallel to the frame as possible for a great ride and handling and usually require cutting and welding. Think BDS, Fabtech, or DOR. If the adage is that you get what you pay for it certainly holds true here.

So a proper suspension would include longer control arms to restore caster and ride, some kind of track bar system or bracketry to restore the triangulation of the and center the axle, and if needed, a drop pitman arm to restore steering geometry and reduce bump steer. Lastly, a proper suspension will have links or drop brackets to restore sway bar geometry. Having a lifted vehicle with a higher center of gravity needs all the help it can get, and with a proper non tank like ride will need roll control.

I'm going to reach out on the track bar for a moment. Its seems no other piece on a 2nd gen 4x4 suspension draws more ire or has inspired more design mods then this piece. So lifting a truck and buying another Oem replacement is a waste. There are still about a dozen or so companies that make anything from re thought OEM parts to 3rd gen conversions to designs beefy enough to whack a rhino. Even mods to the OEM bar which can adjust for wear on the stock ball joint. Seriously, your budget should include replacing the track bar with something better.


Someone is thinking...ok what about leveling kits...? Well they do work but you still will move the front axle and with certain wheel/tire combos, you will notice the off center axle from the front of the truck. There's nothing worse then adding a leveling kit to better clear 33 inch tires (a common mod) and then having them rub on the right side inner fender. FAIL!

Since we've covered the basics of front axles, lets talk about the back. There are about 3 common ways to lift the rear suspension on a 2nd gen Ram. They are.. add a leaves/new springs, stacking or longer blocks, and shackle lifts.
To me stacking or replacing blocks is the least preffered method, aibiet the easiest. The danger and carnage of a stacked block setup popping out is still fresh on my mind, decades after seeing it happen. Stacking blocks or taller blocks also induce spring wrap up quicker on slippery or uneven terrain, causing potential drive train damage. Block lifts tend to cause springs to "back arch" over time, requiring replacement. So why do the job twice? Anything over the factory block is too much. Add a leafs or AALs, or new springs are the better/best solutions. BTW, I recommend long style AALs over the shorter ones because they cause the same issues as blocks.

Which ever method you use, you will start to change the geometry of the rear axle as well, moving it forward towards the cab. This becomes noticeable starting with 7 inches of lift and is more pronounced when a shackle lift is utilized. You can compensate by getting new springs with the center bolt off center or a "zero length spring" a short piece of steel that mounts to the existing pack but moves the axle backwards.

I hope this answers some basic questions about how your suspension/steering is affected by installing lift components. I certainly don't consider myself an expert on the subject but after 11 years of owning an modding the same truck and helping a few others with suspension installs, I do consider myself knowledgeable with what not only works, but the perils of failure.

Btw I spend much of my time reading information on other sites as well. This not only includes forums but vendor sites that still build 2nd gen components.
If you are planning something more than a 3 or 5 inch short arm lift I would suggest expanded reading. There are many other sources of information which can offer knowledge of suspension parts, but only a few cater to 2nd gen trucks. Per forum rules I'm not allowed to post them here.

Also a 5 inch lift is the invisible line where anything over that may start requiring more mods.
Thanks for reading!

Edit: I'm adding this information for owners of Off Road Rams and hope you will find this helpful.

What makes an off road ram? Contrary to urban legend...these trucks did NOT come with lift spacers or Cummins diesel springs from the factory. Off road rams came with "special high rate springs" front and rear that lifted the ram. Removed from off roads, the springs have the same length and arch as standard ram springs, but the extra stiffness (higher rate) increases height over a stock Ram.

So, you want to put a 5 inch lift on your off road. The 5 inch lift made by Rough Country says it won't work. Yes it will...BUT...it will only lift your ram about 2 inches over it's stock heigth. It will be 5 inches over a non off road. So if you want to lift your off road 5 inches over its STOCK heigth, you'd need a 7 inch lift. Make sense? Keep reading this until it does.

Conversely, if you want your off road to be 5 inches higher than a non off road ram...add a set of 3 inch spacers, longer control arms and track bar bracket from a 5 inch lift. You may need an add a leaf for the rear but AALS still lift off road rear packs. Your "off road" will now sit 5 inches higher than a non off road. BTW, this is the same setup I run on my non off road.

Nice informational write up!

I did read the write up and I was just curious I don't want a huge lift all i would look to have it maybe 3" lift I am running factory tires and would like 33"-35" tires, what would your best recommendation be.

Spring or spacer is your decision really but to do it properly you should replace your control arms, get an adjustable track bar or track bar bracket, sway bar drop or longer end links and probably a drop pitman arm as well

A lot of people do that combo with 2"-2.5 spacer and stock component otherwise without problems


A lot can be learned from okie!

tsg2009 said:

I did read the write up and I was just curious I don't want a huge lift all i would look to have it maybe 3" lift I am running factory tires and would like 33"-35" tires, what would your best recommendation be.

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Recommendtion for what? Brand(s)? I won't do that. That'll depend on your budget.

If your asking me what size lift you need for x size tire. I apologise. The information in my 1st post was meant to give you enough information to help you determine that IF you know what tire/rim you're going to run.

I hate to give a hard and fast rule like "3 inch lifts for 33's and 5 inch lifts for 35's" because there are a few exceptions.
Or some amart aleck knows a buddy who crammed 35's under a 2 inch level and it either "works great" or "rubs a little"....riiiiight.!

I run 33 inch tires on a 5 inch lift. I have lots of clearence and I do not rub anywhere no matter what I'm doing with my truck. Theres enough room to go a bit larger if the budget merits. Any alignment adjustments can be set to factory spec and the truck does not dog leg. That's what I consider a functional and useable suspension.

Great info thank you,what i'm reading [between the lines] is the lifts that incorporate welding parts and a little extra work and money are the best to keep the vehicle as close to stock and safe as possible if you can afford them, however the cheaper versions are ok if your budget is lacking funds. I personally am considering a 3-5 inch lift by rough country [i do not off road] cause i want a lift for larger tires, i looked at the others and i personally don't have that kind of money [nor would i buy them if i did] 600-1500 for a 3-5.5 kit is out of my budget,i realize that some folks will use them but i don't have an intrest in spending that much when the kits i'm looking at have all the brackets,shocks ect.

Lifts that require major modifications in the 5 inch range tend to be better riding because the control arm angle is changed. They also can allow for more suspension movement.
My front suspension is Rough Country parts. I use a 3 inch spacer and thier longer arms with off road front springs.
The problem here is with the track bar. I use a factory bar with the Linstad mod and the Tuff Country "5 inch" T bar mount. On a 3 inch lift one is stuck with a poorly designed bracket. It would be better to spend money on an aftermarket system that replaces the bar with an adjustable 3rd gen style bar and bracketry. This will cost you as much as the lift components you intend on installing. A proper trackbar setup is critical on diesel trucks.

Im in the process of doing a 5" lift and decided to go with rough country for my springs shocks and pitman arm while they are very affordable I'm pretty disappointed that the springs are only painted and not powder coated, ive already chipped away at the paint while installing them. Dont know if that bothers you but i thought id let you know.

I wish more people would read this. I get asked all the time why I don't have bigger tires on my truck. Its pointless to cram the biggest tires you can fit under a truck. Thanks for this informative post.

mike2me said:

Im in the process of doing a 5" lift and decided to go with rough country for my springs shocks and pitman arm while they are very affordable I'm pretty disappointed that the springs are only painted and not powder coated, ive already chipped away at the paint while installing them. Dont know if that bothers you but i thought id let you know.

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The old hot rodders adage of "You get what you pays for" holds true here. I hope to replace all my RC components with DOR parts someday.

ltfd22 said:

I wish more people would read this. I get asked all the time why I don't have bigger tires on my truck. Its pointless to cram the biggest tires you can fit under a truck. Thanks for this informative post.

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Thanks! Without the proper gearing to overcome the unsprung weight and diameter of larger wheel/tire combinations it is pointless. That's a whole 'nother campfire story.

Im installing RC adjustable control arms shortly but I know they will be upgraded in the future
They don't seem to bad but I don't think I'll trust them holding up to the abuse they may see further down the road when I have the money to do what I would like worth the truck

Bringing up this thread again with my update i purchased a Rough Country 2.5 lift [spacers/blocks/shocks] and a D.T Fabrication track bar kit installation was a pain in the ass [northern truck/rusty hardware]. I went with spacers due to being able to add 3 inch springs later and upgrade rear springs to obtain a 5.5 lift if i care too. My question is to do with tires [again] i have found a set of 315/75/16 [35/12.50/16s] at a very good price but not sure if they are gonna rub anywhere [i do not go off road],i have generally made up my mind to go with 305/70/16s [285/75/16s as an option] i know those will fit with no issues. Just looking for opinions from some experanced folks before i spend money [again] for tires and become dissapointed. I'm trying to fill the fender well and flairs cauze these 245s look goofy.Thanks ya'll in advance.


Also any advice in loosening the axle nuts on this truck my air gun ain't got enough balls and broke two brakerbars,gonna try the 3/4 inpact at work next.Gotta do ball joints/tie rods.

Lets do this one part at a time.
If you're going to do proper 5 inch lift ditch your 2.5 parts and install one.

A 315/75 tire is closer to 34.3 ish by 11.5. You're pushing the envelope and should stay with a 33 inch tire (305). If you wanted to use 35's in there put on a suspension that will work with them.

I can't remember if you have an off road or not (proabably not) but one thing you will find out is you'll take a big hit in the power department whrn you bolt on those 305s, and more with 315's.

Hub nuts...1st time is always the worst. Wait till you try to get the hub bearings out. Use lots of never sieze when reinstalling.

Recomendatiion...install 98.5 or 08.5 1 ton semi H.D. steering.

I was asking due to a set of 315s coming up localy reasonably priced. I have several sets of 4- 285/75/16s here locally also,so i'm gonna stick with 33s i suppose based on your info. I also read your [i beleve] thread on the tierod upgrade which i'm gathering info/prices to purchase the proper parts this pay day. I'm not intrested in going any taller with the lift [as i'm getting older and my wife probly will complain] i'm just trying to fill those flares up so it don't look so goofy.Thank you for the advice.

I don't know if you'll ever find enough tire for those flares...they're really designed for big tires, like 37-40 inchers with 7-10 inch lifts.

Well i'm looking for a taller/wider tire to just fill up some of the open area i'm gonna keep looking till i find something that fits my budget/look, i bought the flares to cover up the rust that's due to return in the fender lips [northern truck],sad part is the tires i have on there are new i messed up when i ordered/bought them i had 265s on it when i got it and somehow 245s got stuck in my head so now they look dorky [didn't look bad before those flares] but i'm in too much of a hurry and screw up sometimes.No matter i'm gonna look and price shop till i find them.Still gotta finish the rest of the frontend repair and yes the nuts are rusty on the axles [passenger side is worse] driver side looks to be newer,ain't looking forward to removing the hubs either heard they are a bear and yes i'll smear neversieze on everything.

Very nice write up, Ive been thinking about got bigger lately... I do have one question, in regards of u-joint wear. My dad had an old lifted blazer. He told me that it ate through u-joints like no other. With that in mind has actually stopped me in getting a kit installed. Though, I do however like the stance of the 5" kits.

My buddies YJ used to eat through U joints too but then we figured out the PO didn't put the transfer case drop on right
If you get a proper kit(or do your homework) appropriate drive shaft angles should be kept and you shouldn't have many u joint problems

I haven't had any issues with U-jonts. Most suspension kits are designed to retain factory angles and settings(unless specified). A 5 inch lft shouldn't give you issues unless you install something wrong.
One of the purposes of the original thread was to make Ram owners who want to modify thier suspensions...especially those who want to "piece together" a suspension...what the parameters are and consequences of leaving out important steps/parts that suspension manufactuers put into a complete kit.

cool thanks man