1999 Dodge Ram with 5.9 Magnum and Zero Spark Advance at Idle

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pmk138

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1999 Dodge Ram Only runs with Brake Booster Hose disconnected from Manifold

Hello, I just finished up putting my engine back in after changing my main and rod end bearings, new timing chain and sprockets, intake manifold gaskets, plentum gaskets, new distributor cap and rotor, and water. My initial startup resulted with the engine running very rough. The engine now starts up nicely, but will die out idle speed. I can keep the engine going if I tap on the gas. I hooked up my scan tool and I get a spark advanced reading of 0 when I let the engine idle. It will increase when I tap the gas.
I check the voltage of my TPS this morning. With the throttle closed, I am getting 12.9 . When it is wide open I am getting about 75.5 . With the sensor disconnected, I get 100. I am thinking this sensor may be the problem. Is there an idle relearn process I need to follow since the engine was pulled for 2 months and just put back in? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
 
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pmk138

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Well just as an update, I tried a new TPS and a IAC and they didn't seem to help. I ended up disconnecting the hose between the manifold and brake booster and the engine does not stall. When I go to connect the hose back to the brake booster, it wants to stall again. I am stumped.
 

G-Ride990

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When you disconnect the hose do you just leave it open or do you plug it? As in creating a vacuum leak lets it idle? If so, sounds to me like the IAC hasn't opened to where it wants to be yet. When I replaced mine on my Dakota R/t it took a while to figure out where it wanted to be. That had the 5.9 as well.

MAP sensor could cause it too. When you swap a cam on the 5.9 you usually need more vacuum to the MAP to make them idle correctly. So low vacuum to the MAP could cause an idle issue as well.
 
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pmk138

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Hello. Yes I just left the brake booster hose just hanging and wide open. If I put my finger on the end of the hose, it want to shut off. Now I did leave the new IAC in the throttle body, but do you think it will take a number of startup or an extended amount of running time to balance out? I didn't look at the MAP sensor too much yet. I did take it off tonight and put it back on to make sure the hose wasn't kinked. I can try and run it tomorrow to see if there are any changes. Oh and I did not change the CAM or remove it.

No I didn't do anything with setting the fuel trim. However I am not 100% sure what you are talking about. Can you tell me a little about that?

Thanks for the replies. It is giving me some hope.
 
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pmk138

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Oh and it doesn't look like the Throttle Body is opening up to increase air intake. SHouldn't it be opening when I out my finger over the brake booster hose?
 

Yeret

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No, the throttle body blades themselves aren't going to move. We don't have electric throttle bodies on our trucks (thank Christ). Are you talking about the IAC?

Engine throwing any codes? Did you pull the distributor? Absolutely certain that you had the timing marks aligned on the timing set?

Could be a lot of things honestly. I personally would try hooking everything back up as normal, then sit in the cab and hold the throttle down just a smidge and start the engine. Let it run like this for a few minutes and then try letting off the throttle. If the engine will idle fine, go for a nice long drive to get everything broken in and "learned." If the engine feels like it's going to kill, keep holding the throttle down for a few more minutes. Rinse, repeat. If you reach operating temperature and the engine still won't idle, I'm really going to have to say there's an issue with the IAC.

Last winter, I had an issue where the engine would fire and immediately stall. I had to do this procedure pretty much every day until the weather started warming up. Never did completely figure it out, I think it's that aftermarket IAC that I bought a couple years ago.

Good luck!
 
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pmk138

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Yes I wasn't 100% sure how the throttle body worked. At the very beginning when I first started the it took a while till it ran for a little bit. At that time I got a P0001 code (Fuel Vol. Regulator Control circuit/Open) and P1391 (Interm Loss of CMP or CKP). That had gone away once I got the truck running with the brake booster hose disconnected.

So today I had the truck running with a slight miss with the brake booster disconnected. I then reconnected that hose and disconnected the PCV hose and it too ran ok. I let it run a few minutes and then reconnected it and it ran good for a little bit and thought I good, but then it stalled.

Now after make a bunch of attempts testing things out, the truck stalls with the pcv hose disconnected. And at one point I did get the P1391 code again. Any thoughts? One I wanted to mention, the rubber grommet for the crank position sensor fell onto the ground after I reinstalled the engine to the transmission. It was after everything was connected that I saw it. I do plan to reconnect it, but I don't think that is causing my problem. Let me know what you think.

Paul
 
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pmk138

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I did not pull the distributor. I lined the cam sprocket with the crank sprocket before I removed the original sprocket and chain. After putting the new stuff one, I rotated the engine to make sure everything lined up and it looked good to me. Forgot to mention that.
 

dapepper9

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So you didn't pull the distributor but did the cam go back in in exactly the same position as it came out? I would run through the Fuel Sync process to rule it out. Fuel Sync can cause weird issues like this
 
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pmk138

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I didn't pull the cam out. I left it in place. What do you think?
 
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pmk138

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Well just another update. I put another ignition coil I got from the JY a couple years ago and the truck seems to run good. However, I didn't realize till tonight I had a vacuum hose disconnected. So once again when I connected the hose, the truck shut right off. So I decided to take it for spin to see what happened. I discovered that the truck will stay running in reverse, neutral, Drive, 2, & 1. It doesn't idle 100%, but it will not stall out. And even if I sitting still for 5 minutes in neutral, the second it goes into Park it wants to stall. The next two things I figured I would look at would be to verify the voltage at the alternator is good and maybe replace the crank sensor. My voltage gauge in the truck registers around 14volts. I thought it would have been a little higher. Also, it seems as though my transmission seal just behind the torque converter is leaking. So once I get the truck running good, I may be taking it to a transmission shop I have dealt with in the past that seem to be pretty good.
 

dudeman2009

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Well just another update. I put another ignition coil I got from the JY a couple years ago and the truck seems to run good. However, I didn't realize till tonight I had a vacuum hose disconnected. So once again when I connected the hose, the truck shut right off. So I decided to take it for spin to see what happened. I discovered that the truck will stay running in reverse, neutral, Drive, 2, & 1. It doesn't idle 100%, but it will not stall out. And even if I sitting still for 5 minutes in neutral, the second it goes into Park it wants to stall. The next two things I figured I would look at would be to verify the voltage at the alternator is good and maybe replace the crank sensor. My voltage gauge in the truck registers around 14volts. I thought it would have been a little higher. Also, it seems as though my transmission seal just behind the torque converter is leaking. So once I get the truck running good, I may be taking it to a transmission shop I have dealt with in the past that seem to be pretty good.

The PCM controls charging voltage, if its at 14V, thats not your problem. Normal charging voltage is anywhere between 12.9 and 14.7V. Vacuum leaks won't keep the truck from running. First thing i'd check is the cap/rotor and ignition coil. To test the coil probe from the tower to one of the connector pins, should read from about 12K to 15K ohms. Then probe between both the pins on the bottom, should read just about 1ohm.

Another option is to pull injector connectors one by one and see which ones do and don't affect the idle.
 

Yeret

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Do you get that P1391 code often? Seems to be an issue with cam timing, crank sensor or cam sensor. The engine seems to fire just fine so that to me lessens the possibility of a crank sensor since a faulty crank sensor flat out prevents the engine from even starting. When my crank sensor started failing, it would take three cranks before my engine would even start and then it would cut out randomly on the highway. Yikes!

Basically in a nutshell, that code means the computer is getting conflicting readings from the cam and crank sensors due to a fault in one of them (or their circuits) or off cam timing so it can't operate as it should. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to know which one is causing the problem and neither do I...

However, since you've had the engine pulled, you would have had to disconnect both of them. You should check the connections and make sure they're clean and tight. Also, any chance you might have forgotten one of them while pulling the engine and yanked on the wires?
 
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pmk138

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Well I did check the original ignition coil and compare it to two from the JY. The resistance did change with the original one from my truck when it was first in the garage and then when it was left in the hot sun for over an hour. The one I picked out of the two had the lowest resistance values. I hooked it up and thought it fixed it, but the next day I saw I left one of the vacuum hoses off. I was so excited to report back that I fixed it, but I am glad I didn't because I would have looked like a complete bone head. Ha HA.

The cap and rotor are both new, but that could still be the problem if the one I got is defective. That is something I am going to keep in mind. The injections is something else I will keep in mind too.

No I didn't get the P1391 code often, just during the initial startup and just a day or two ago when I was trying to keep it running. It is very possible that I forgot to disconnect one of them, but if I didn't I can confirm 100% yes or no. Tomorrow I plan to take it to work, which is about 30 miles one way. I check with a local garage to see what he would want to hook the truck up to his snap on scanner and he said $30 or $35, so that sounds like a sweet deal to me. I am hoping that narrows down the problem. I have a Cheapo eBay scanner, but it hasn't completely narrowed down my problem. If is funny how the truck runs in drive, neutral and reverse without stalling, but stalls the second it goes into park.

I also check with a transmission shop that I know is pretty good and he told me that the transmission fluid must get added when the transmission is in neutral, otherwise the pump may not be pulling the fluid in and the fluid drops I am finding on the ground could be coming out of the breather. That is much better if that is indeed the case. I will report back on my findings.
 
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pmk138

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Well today took the truck to work and check the transmission fluid and it is at the correct level now. What I noticed was that when the truck got up to 50 to 55MPH, the truck would jerk once when I lightly tapped the gas pedal. And it would continue to jerk once every time I touched the gas pedal just after letting of it. The torque converter I put in is a Dacco DC787, which I think is remanufactured by Transtar. Anybody have any experiences with this brand. The transmission guy I talked to wasn't to excited about the Dacco brand and compared it to a Walmart off the shelf part.

At this point, the truck still stalls in park. Yesterday when I stopped the 2nd time to check the transmission fluid level, it starting stalling when the truck was in gear. I wondering if this is all connected somehow to my stalling issue.

And I did get my truck scanned at the local garage and it didn't pull any codes and didn't show any miss-firing cylinders.
 

Yeret

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At this point, I would almost be tempted to say that the converter isn't slipping enough at idle and is stalling the engine in the same manner that a manual transmission does when you stop the vehicle while it's still in gear.

That's the problem with remanufactured parts. Yeah, they're cheaper but they've been rebuilt because they started having issues. If the cause of the issue isn't fixed during the reman process, it's going to fail in the exact same way as before.

Torque converters can be tested but I'm not really sure how to interpret the results. I'm sure someone here can post a brief tutorial.
 
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pmk138

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What brand torque converter do you recommend? And who would you get it from? My transmission guy told me he uses Recon
 
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pmk138

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Well I solved my stall problem today. I went to my transmission guy and he hooked up his $10,000 Snap On scanner and found that the TPS was acting up. The voltage wasn't where it was supposed to be. He recommended that I stop by Napa and get one from there since he is not a big Autozone fan. I actually got from from Autozone, but when I compared the new autozone and the original one, they seemed to act exactly the same. So after I installed the new Napa Sensor and drove about 20 miles, the truck stayed running while in park. Now the transmission guy also told me that the torque converter is what was causing the bump with the gas pedal, so that is the second and hopefully last issue I have to solve. He said there weren't any transmission sensors that seemed to be bad and the pressures in the transmissions looked good. So just to revisit my transmission problem, I feel a light bang when the torque converter engages somewhere around 50 MPH and then if I let off the gas pedal and push it again, the torque converter bangs in again. The transmission guy said the TPS may solve this issue, but it hasn't at this point. When looking a little on the internet, some people suggest checking the brake light switch and seeing if the problem goes away when I disconnect the alternator charging wire. I guess that will be my next step I will take.
 

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