5.2 headers tune

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Rammythe2ndgen

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I have a 2000 magnum and I have installed headers and have emptyed out my cats. I have the factory system but replaced the muffler with a glasspack. Should I have it dyno tuned so it runs good or what can I do so it's not running rich?
 

mda8569

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How do you know its running rich? The pcm learns and adjusts fuel trim to the mods you do, up to a point. If you are asking about actually tuning your truck, the most popular is the SCT tuner. Best bang for your buck, if your looking for more.
 

dudeman2009

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MDA is right, it will adjust to a point. In order to tell how much your truck is actually having to adjust, to see if you need it tuned, get a cheap OBDII reader that supports PID monitoring. Harbor freight sells them, or you can get one online that connects to your smartphone.

You want to find the fuel trims. After the stuff you've done, i'd bet a pretty penny they are running in the negative. Anything under 10%+/- is considered acceptable, most vehicles will throw a code if the long term trim crosses that point. What you want to do is take it for a nice drive, about 20 miles to give the PCM time to 'learn' your new setup. After that you will want to add the short and long term fuel trims from now on. (-5%+4%=-1%, -10%=-8%=-18%) You will want to get the combined trim at a few points, idle, cruising at 30 then 70. As long as the combined trims don't go past -24% you're fine, the PCM can compensate. If its -25% or greater, i'd consider getting a tune.

I'm guessing off the top of my head that you're fine. It might take a couple of long drives to show up, but if you dont get a CEL, you're golden. IIf you do get a CEL, then you can live with it, or get a tune.
 

dapepper9

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It richens when cats are removed and pipe size doesn't change because that little bit of restriction the cat produces backs up the exhaust gas slightly and reads a certain level of exhaust and the removal changes how much un-oxygenated gas is in the pipe at that piont due to velocity and buildup. The flow is completely different. Cat delete richening has been proven to be minor on these and won't cause any issues save for slightly more consumption. However, you'd be very happy with what a tune offers so I wouldn't take that off the table.
 

Max78

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Simply installing headers and emptying the cats with a glass pack shouldn't give you an overly rich condition.

A bad connection at the header collector or a crack before the O2 sensor could definitely cause the issue. If you are 100% sure the system is sealed and not leaking then it could be an old O2 sensor.

I have read that Bosch O2 sensors run rich compared to NTK, i have only ever installed NTK so I dont have any first hand experience with them.

If I was in your position I would check all your connections, and if they look good put in a fresh O2.
 

dapepper9

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Simply installing headers and emptying the cats with a glass pack shouldn't give you an overly rich condition.

A bad connection at the header collector or a crack before the O2 sensor could definitely cause the issue. If you are 100% sure the system is sealed and not leaking then it could be an old O2 sensor.

I have read that Bosch O2 sensors run rich compared to NTK, i have only ever installed NTK so I dont have any first hand experience with them.

If I was in your position I would check all your connections, and if they look good put in a fresh O2.

Cat delete will give a slightly rich condition. Not overly rich no but slightly
 
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Rammythe2ndgen

Rammythe2ndgen

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Ok well is there a 02 sensor more aimed towards reading these type of things and is more capable of making the changes to make it run right. Also my check engine light is on and everytime I drive I get a overwhelming smell of gas that's what has me to belive it runs rich.
 

dudeman2009

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An o2 sensor is an o2 sensor, as long as you don't buy bottom of the bin, you'll be fine. The o2 sensor doesn't change anything, it reads what its presented, the PCM changes things, o2 sensors are really stupid.

As for the code, of course you're going to throw a code, you hollowed out the cat, no real reason for it either, unless it was clogged beyond belief and was causing problems. The code is going to be for your downstream o2 sensor, just take it to autozone or something and have them read the codes. Just ignore any o2 codes regarding sensor 2. Also, maybe don't mention you hollowed out the cat, its kind of illegal.

As for smelling gas, if it only started after after you did this exhaust work, then you didn't seal what you did well enough. You'll need to go back and fix it. The reason you're smelling it, if it is coming from the exhaust and not an injector or fuel line, is due to the deathflash and the slightly rich condition present. The 'deathflash' ******* ignition timing, put simply, as a result more unburnt fuel than usual is escaping from the exhaust instead of being burnt. There is nothing you can do to fix that other than getting a tune. However thats not to say that the vehicle is operating in a way it shouldn't.

I just got done swapping engines in my truck. I wanted to hear it run without the headers on, straight from the head to atmosphere, let me tell you, it was loud as **** and blew a ton of fuel out the exhaust. Its not due to the lack of o2 sensor either, it was running in open loop mode and wasn't using the sensor input anyway. Once it ran for a minute it quieted down and got pissed about the o2 sensor. But I have the deathflash, just like you, and my exhaust still smells a bit like fuel even though everything is hooked up and the truck is happy with the o2 sensor readings.
 
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dapepper9

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v8ccqht.jpg

Haha jk just teasin.

But seriously, that's fairly normal for gutting the cat. If you wish for it to go back to how it was before you'll either need a high flow cat, a more restrictive muffler such as a Flowmaster 40 or 50, or simply run smaller pipe.

You can install a wideband oxygen sensor for an a/f gauge and monitor it visually
 

dudeman2009

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View attachment 83827

Haha jk just teasin.

But seriously, that's fairly normal for gutting the cat. If you wish for it to go back to how it was before you'll either need a high flow cat, a more restrictive muffler such as a Flowmaster 40 or 50, or simply run smaller pipe.

You can install a wideband oxygen sensor for an a/f gauge and monitor it visually

If my calculations are correct, when this baby hits 88 miles per hour... you're gonna see some serious ****.
 

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Rammythe2ndgen

Rammythe2ndgen

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Ok so if I decide to completely ditch the y pipe and go true duals. Is a tune needed or can I go out buy o2 bungs weld them on and call it good?
 

Marciel

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You will know if there are 02 sensor issues, my 360 idled like **** it had a bad 02 sensor. I have headers, cia, msd and a canned tune.

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