Hughes Air Gap + tune. How much power?

Yeret · Mar 26, 2017

How much power will a Hughes Air Gap with a good SCT tune make with factory heads and cam? I know that Ryan has posted results here before but I can't seem to find them. Can anyone point me in the right direction or at least quote his claims?

I said before that my next upgrade was going to be headers but I'm starting to have second thoughts. A good set of headers with uprated gaskets and fasteners will at best be slightly cheaper than the Air Gap + tune and I'm fairly certain that I'll gain more going the Air Gap route.

And before anyone mentions the M1, yes, I'd love to go that route but I've pretty much concluded that I'm just not gonna get ahold of one. Unless someone here has one that they want to sell, LOL.

cranksgarage · Mar 26, 2017

I bolted on a Hughes intake last week so far I like it seems the truck pulls a lot harder above 3500 rpm. As far as a good tuner I was sold a BDX last week and
now waiting to here back from bullydog because my ecm failed (p0601) when I tried to load a custom tune. Will not load tunes at all.Not happy...

dapepper9 · Mar 26, 2017

With nothing but a free flow muffler, superchips and the m1 i made 223rwhp/281rwtq. Factory generally makes about 180-190rwhp. Ryan's tune and muffler swap alone have made that an even 200 after a 180 baseline pull. Tune and airgap/m1 have shown results in the 230+ range

goodtodoo · Mar 26, 2017

So when you speak of the M1, are you speaking about the 2 barrel version or the 4 barrel version.

dapepper9 · Mar 26, 2017

For fullsize rams like ours the 2bbl is more desirable because of tq retention so generally that's what I'm talking about. I really don't suggest 4bbl for much of anything but big builds

Stegs · Apr 3, 2017

M1 is a nice intake! im very happy with it!

Stegs · Apr 3, 2017

Yeret said:
How much power will a Hughes Air Gap with a good SCT tune make with factory heads and cam? I know that Ryan has posted results here before but I can't seem to find them. Can anyone point me in the right direction or at least quote his claims?

I said before that my next upgrade was going to be headers but I'm starting to have second thoughts. A good set of headers with uprated gaskets and fasteners will at best be slightly cheaper than the Air Gap + tune and I'm fairly certain that I'll gain more going the Air Gap route.

And before anyone mentions the M1, yes, I'd love to go that route but I've pretty much concluded that I'm just not gonna get ahold of one. Unless someone here has one that they want to sell, LOL.

Ive said it before, ill say it again. If you really want to make a difference in your truck, save your money and go with new gears!!

Ive done just about every mod you can (not a throttle body spacer)

for you money, you will not get any more performance than new gears.

if you go from 3.55 to 4.10 or 4.56 like me....its a huge difference. You engine and trans will thank you!! not to mention way more torque (which is what you want to get these big, heavy trucks moving!

Max78 · Apr 3, 2017

Yes gears will give you great off the line and in town performance, but if you travel on the highway a lot or for long distances at 75-80mph like I do they will SUCK and so will you mpg compared to stock.

Stock drive train and 245/75/16 tires running 2050rpm will put you right at 75is mph, changing your gears to 4.10 and you will need to run 2400rpm to maintain 75mph, and with 4.56 gears you will be running at 2650rpm. . .

Stegs · Apr 4, 2017

Max78 said:
Yes gears will give you great off the line and in town performance, but if you travel on the highway a lot or for long distances at 75-80mph like I do they will SUCK and so will you mpg compared to stock.

Stock drive train and 245/75/16 tires running 2050rpm will put you right at 75is mph, changing your gears to 4.10 and you will need to run 2400rpm to maintain 75mph, and with 4.56 gears you will be running at 2650rpm. . .

Lets analyze this:
19 year old truck
known gas guzzler no matter what
big, heavy, not aerodynamic at all
factory mpg rating for this was 14ish?

if you want good mpg's, get a honda. No matter what you do to these trucks you will not get good HP/TQ numbers AND GOOD mpg

pick one or the other.

I speak with experience, i have done just about every mod to my 98 5.2

And guess what, it does make more HP than before, but still gets crappy mileage.

There is no magic pill.

TO the OP:

Not sure what your goals are for your truck, but Im trying to save you money on this, money that can be better spent elsewhere

If your goal is HP?TQ and getting the most performance out of it, gears for the money work the best. Or if you want to go with a 392/408 stroker that would be awesome. A intake isnt going to give you want you want alone, a tune will help, but you still need more to get the most out of it

If your looking for better mileage, spend the money on quality oil/filters, spark plugs, plug wires, highway tires in FACTORY SIZE and quality fuel.

Once you start adding things to increase power, you will start to use more fuel. HP requires more fuel, thus mpg will drop some.

Im just trying to help you not waste your money on things that will be marginal in both mpg and HP/TQ

Max78 · Apr 4, 2017

Stegs said:
Lets analyze this:
19 year old truck
known gas guzzler no matter what
big, heavy, not aerodynamic at all
factory mpg rating for this was 14ish?

if you want good mpg's, get a honda. No matter what you do to these trucks you will not get good HP/TQ numbers AND GOOD mpg

pick one or the other.

I speak with experience, i have done just about every mod to my 98 5.2

And guess what, it does make more HP than before, but still gets crappy mileage.

There is no magic pill.

TO the OP:

Not sure what your goals are for your truck, but Im trying to save you money on this, money that can be better spent elsewhere

If your goal is HP?TQ and getting the most performance out of it, gears for the money work the best. Or if you want to go with a 392/408 stroker that would be awesome. A intake isnt going to give you want you want alone, a tune will help, but you still need more to get the most out of it

If your looking for better mileage, spend the money on quality oil/filters, spark plugs, plug wires, highway tires in FACTORY SIZE and quality fuel.

Once you start adding things to increase power, you will start to use more fuel. HP requires more fuel, thus mpg will drop some.

Im just trying to help you not waste your money on things that will be marginal in both mpg and HP/TQ

Not sure what the rated mpg is on these trucks but my highway mileage is 16-17 @75-70 with a shell, I just wanted to make sure the OP understood that installing gears while on stock size tires will drop that down considerably depending on gear selection, then you are also running the rpm higher which depending on exhaust setup can be annoying, as well as other potential drawbacks. Not everyone that is looking for a little more performance/efficiency is going to be so wiling to deal with the drawbacks so I wanted to make sure he was aware of the potential drawbacks you left out so he can make a decision that fits his needs, not what you think fits his needs.

Also the typical response of "well just get a honda" is as generic as it gets and can be applied to everything we ever do to any vehicle. You want good mpg, get a honda. You want it to go fast, get a sports car. You want a smoother ride, get a cadi. Its the typical response close minded people use, really how useful is that response?

Also, just because something might make more power does not mean that its going to always drop your mpg. Improving efficiency can net you both, and with the design of these old engines its not hard to improve efficiency while gaining a little more mpg.

Yeret · Apr 4, 2017

Thanks for the input, Stegs. Gears are one of those things that I know works but I always end up getting lost in the horsepower stuff.

It'd be kind of a win-win for me. My axles have over 180,000 miles on them and I'm fairly sure that I've got some light howling going on in the rear. Figure if I'm gonna have them rebuilt, it'd be the perfect time to swap ring and pinion. I'm on the fence between 3.92 and 4.10. While I'm at it, I want to swap the open rear carrier for a limited-slip because I'm tired of having to rely on the 4x4 every single damned time I have to take off in a little mud, LOL. I don't want to deal with tire chirping in the corners or screw around with an "air locker," so I figure a good aftermarket limited-slip will fit the bill.

A question that I do have is what kind of gear ratio does the front Dana 44 typically have? I'm wondering if I'm going to have to swap the gears in that to match the rear or if the OEM ones will be "close enough." I do know that the 44 has some weird stuff going on with it's geometry and you have to use thick-cut ring gears and such. Any input on that?

As much as I've toyed with ideas, I'm honestly thinking of just sticking the with kegger, screw the "kegger mod," grab some Gibson shorties and some Harland Sharp 1.7s, getting some gears and calling it good. Maybe swap in a "torque" cam from Crane if I can find a way to keep the compression pump-friendly. Sooner or later I'm gonna have to really satisfy my need for speed and finance a first-gen Viper or a big block Road Runner or something, LOL.

Thanks all for the input. I truly think that I'm finally coming up with a final picture of what I want from my truck: maximum low-end torque with as much mid-range as I can get away with and not having to bust the bank.

Oh, and fuel economy? Heh, if I was truly concerned about that, I never would have sold my 5-speed Accord back in the day. That car was solid as hell and got 28-32 MPG. I'm averaging 12 on a good day with the Ram and if I can keep it around that with mods, I'll be happy.

Also, on another note, why doesn't anyone make an Edelbrock Performer to run with MPI? Much more low-end than the Air Gap and still breathes well at mid RPM. I feel that THIS would have been a better base than the Air Gap for fuel-injected Magnum engines.

Stegs · Apr 5, 2017

Yeret said:
Thanks for the input, Stegs. Gears are one of those things that I know works but I always end up getting lost in the horsepower stuff.

It'd be kind of a win-win for me. My axles have over 180,000 miles on them and I'm fairly sure that I've got some light howling going on in the rear. Figure if I'm gonna have them rebuilt, it'd be the perfect time to swap ring and pinion. I'm on the fence between 3.92 and 4.10. While I'm at it, I want to swap the open rear carrier for a limited-slip because I'm tired of having to rely on the 4x4 every single damned time I have to take off in a little mud, LOL. I don't want to deal with tire chirping in the corners or screw around with an "air locker," so I figure a good aftermarket limited-slip will fit the bill.

A question that I do have is what kind of gear ratio does the front Dana 44 typically have? I'm wondering if I'm going to have to swap the gears in that to match the rear or if the OEM ones will be "close enough." I do know that the 44 has some weird stuff going on with it's geometry and you have to use thick-cut ring gears and such. Any input on that?

As much as I've toyed with ideas, I'm honestly thinking of just sticking the with kegger, screw the "kegger mod," grab some Gibson shorties and some Harland Sharp 1.7s, getting some gears and calling it good. Maybe swap in a "torque" cam from Crane if I can find a way to keep the compression pump-friendly. Sooner or later I'm gonna have to really satisfy my need for speed and finance a first-gen Viper or a big block Road Runner or something, LOL.

Thanks all for the input. I truly think that I'm finally coming up with a final picture of what I want from my truck: maximum low-end torque with as much mid-range as I can get away with and not having to bust the bank.

Oh, and fuel economy? Heh, if I was truly concerned about that, I never would have sold my 5-speed Accord back in the day. That car was solid as hell and got 28-32 MPG. I'm averaging 12 on a good day with the Ram and if I can keep it around that with mods, I'll be happy.

Also, on another note, why doesn't anyone make an Edelbrock Performer to run with MPI? Much more low-end than the Air Gap and still breathes well at mid RPM. I feel that THIS would have been a better base than the Air Gap for fuel-injected Magnum engines.

stock gears in your truck are probably 3.55. A good all around gear. Thats why they chose it.

Dodge knew on the off road edition ram's that they needed more gearing, so they went with 4:10 and a limited slip :naughty:

I went from from 3.55 to 4.56 gears in my truck. I added a spicer limited slip while i was doing it. Of course all new bushings/bearings.

I would go with either a 4.10 gear or a 4.56. If you want max torque 4.56 is a great gear ratio, especially if your running over size tires or plan too

Here is where I would start on your truck: (unless you know how old this stuff is)

New copper plugs (champion or NGK)
good quality wires
new air filter
quality oil (i suggest rotella T5 synthetic blend 10w30)
quality filter (napa gold)
quality fuels (exxon/mobil/BP/Shell)

Id stay away from the mom and pop shops for fuel, they tend to buy cheap grades of gas. Visit Home | Top Tier Gas Find quality fuel and use it. My truck runs better on 89 octane min, but i run 93 because of my tune

Easy and cheap stuff to do. Get the truck running as best it can.

Save up for the gears unless you have the cash to do them now

The cam is a good idea, but there is nothing wrong with the stock cam. I have heard good things about the RV cam

headers are a great idea, but only if you plan on a high flow exhaust (high flow cat and muffler)

Getting air + fuel in, mean you must get exhaust out!

From my experience, start with the basics, a good tune up WITH QUALITY PARTS is where you want to start!!!

DO NOT GET CHEAP AUTOZONE CRAP. Spend a few dollars more at napa and get good stuff

after that, gears are great! Here is a list of my mods on my truck

4.56 gears
spicer limited slip
upgraded valve body in trans
2200 stall converter
shift kit
check valve delete for trans
AEM brute force intake
SCT tuner by hemifever
trans cooler
magnaflow high flow cat (direct fit)
magnaflow muffler (single in/single out) stock replacement tailpipe (for better torque)
Mopar M1 intake
Way more than i can remember, but these stand out

I never touched my cam, throttle body, or exhaust manifolds.....ive looked into headers, still cant decide

I just dont drive my truck much anymore. Last year i only put about 425 miles on my truck....yea it sits alot!!!

I do miss driving it!!

Stegs · Apr 5, 2017

Max78 said:
Not sure what the rated mpg is on these trucks but my highway mileage is 16-17 @75-70 with a shell, I just wanted to make sure the OP understood that installing gears while on stock size tires will drop that down considerably depending on gear selection, then you are also running the rpm higher which depending on exhaust setup can be annoying, as well as other potential drawbacks. Not everyone that is looking for a little more performance/efficiency is going to be so wiling to deal with the drawbacks so I wanted to make sure he was aware of the potential drawbacks you left out so he can make a decision that fits his needs, not what you think fits his needs.

Also the typical response of "well just get a honda" is as generic as it gets and can be applied to everything we ever do to any vehicle. You want good mpg, get a honda. You want it to go fast, get a sports car. You want a smoother ride, get a cadi. Its the typical response close minded people use, really how useful is that response?

Also, just because something might make more power does not mean that its going to always drop your mpg. Improving efficiency can net you both, and with the design of these old engines its not hard to improve efficiency while gaining a little more mpg.

excuse me, but I can honestly say, if you want better mpg, dont buy or drive a 2nd gen dodge ram.

Not closed minded, and very useful! Its just common sense

You want to improve your ride in your ram, go with bilstien shocks. You want to go faster, buy a 408 stroker kit for your truck.

Im simply saying there is nothing that you can do to these trucks that will magically go from 15 mpg to 30 mpg.

Nothing will improve mileage a ton.

I suggested to him 2 times now START with quality tune up parts. Get it running as best it can.

But he stated he is after the most torque he can get. Bolt ons might help some, but nothing will make a difference like gears.

I clearly stated to use me as a prime example. I was in his shoes. I wanted the best of it all, MPG/HP/TQ. I spent the money, what i gained was a sweet ride, but still doesnt get good mpg

Yes his mileage will go down. But my guess if he was shooting for high MPG's he wouldnt have bought a 2nd gen dodge ram to begin with.

There is more to life than MPG.

You wont be 65 years old, sitting on your porch, sipping buffalo trace bourbon saying "hey, remember that one time i got 22.7 mpg :sleepy10:

My truck gets maybe 10 mpg , 13ish on 87 tune
my 440 charger gets 8 mpg, if im lucky

point is, get the truck running best it can. ALWAYs #1 place to start. Anything else he does at that point is just a cherry on top!!

dapepper9 · Apr 5, 2017

Airgap and Edelbrock Performer RPM are the same intake. Hughes just has a contract with them and they pour/cast it with his name on it and he does the machine work. After sourcing 4bbl-2bbl adapter and all your gaskets and everything, it's really not much more for the airgap.

While we're talking gears, if your factory are 3.55 in back then they are 3.55 up front. The only issue with the D44 is the carrier needing thick cut gears for anything over 3.73.

Also while we're talking fuel mileage, not as simple as some would like to believe. Most believe that the lower the rpm the better but not always true. It varies greatly on the tq curve of the engine. For example, my truck is actually more efficient at 80mph and 2400 rpm than it is at 65 and 2000rpm. Much more speed/tq for very little change in rpm. I get about 13 like that. When my truck was completely stock except for a Flowmaster 50 cat-back exhaust system, I could hit 18/19 and nearly 20 at 65mph rocking about 1900rpm. Factory it made way more tq at that range and that 1900rpm was effortless for it. Tq converter used, parts on the engine and everything plays a part in this. The right balance of high airflow, more timing, more tq, less rpm, more speed, less heat. Tq converter stall for example is a huge factor.

dapepper9 · Apr 5, 2017

Also as I've posted plenty of times before, skip the cam without a higher flowing intake manifold, full exhaust, tune and heads. Honestly you can make quite respectable power on a factory cam if you set it up right. Heads and intake manifold are the 2 biggest restrictions on these. Different manifold, better heads and your factory cam will still keep surprisingly high flow velocity moving through the system. 1.7 rockers can also help get more air in by simply adding slightly more lift to the short duration. EngineMasters by MotorTrend actually just made their video about cam specs public on youtube. If you watch that after watching their Stroked vs Stock displacement video you'll see it quite nicely demonstrated.

Stegs · Apr 5, 2017

dapepper9 said:
Also as I've posted plenty of times before, skip the cam without a higher flowing intake manifold, full exhaust, tune and heads. Honestly you can make quite respectable power on a factory cam if you set it up right. Heads and intake manifold are the 2 biggest restrictions on these. Different manifold, better heads and your factory cam will still keep surprisingly high flow velocity moving through the system. 1.7 rockers can also help get more air in by simply adding slightly more lift to the short duration. EngineMasters by MotorTrend actually just made their video about cam specs public on youtube. If you watch that after watching their Stroked vs Stock displacement video you'll see it quite nicely demonstrated.

heads would be awesome!!

who makes good heads for the 5.2/5.9 for our trucks?

on a side note, anybody know if there is any difference between factory heads and r/t heads?

dapepper9 · Apr 5, 2017

Stegs said:
heads would be awesome!!

who makes good heads for the 5.2/5.9 for our trucks?

on a side note, anybody know if there is any difference between factory heads and r/t heads?

EngineQuest makes the best bang for buck heads. 40cfm more than factory, don't crack like factory, accept factory hardware...all out of the box new. Also available with 2.02/1.60 valves and both can be purchased for the price of ONE aluminum edelbrock. The same Edelbrocks that they rival in flow.

R/T vs factory is actually a little bit of a trick question. The R/T heads and cam that Mopar used to sell as performance parts were essentially slightly ported factory heads and more aggressive cam that worked with factory programming. The heads/cam that came in Dakota R/T trucks though, exactly the same as what came in the rams, jeeps, durangos and vans.

Max78 · Apr 5, 2017

Stegs said:
excuse me, but I can honestly say, if you want better mpg, dont buy or drive a 2nd gen dodge ram.

Not closed minded, and very useful! Its just common sense

You want to improve your ride in your ram, go with bilstien shocks. You want to go faster, buy a 408 stroker kit for your truck.

Im simply saying there is nothing that you can do to these trucks that will magically go from 15 mpg to 30 mpg.

Nothing will improve mileage a ton.

I suggested to him 2 times now START with quality tune up parts. Get it running as best it can.

But he stated he is after the most torque he can get. Bolt ons might help some, but nothing will make a difference like gears.

I clearly stated to use me as a prime example. I was in his shoes. I wanted the best of it all, MPG/HP/TQ. I spent the money, what i gained was a sweet ride, but still doesnt get good mpg

Yes his mileage will go down. But my guess if he was shooting for high MPG's he wouldnt have bought a 2nd gen dodge ram to begin with.

There is more to life than MPG.

You wont be 65 years old, sitting on your porch, sipping buffalo trace bourbon saying "hey, remember that one time i got 22.7 mpg

My truck gets maybe 10 mpg , 13ish on 87 tune
my 440 charger gets 8 mpg, if im lucky

point is, get the truck running best it can. ALWAYs #1 place to start. Anything else he does at that point is just a cherry on top!!

Your the only one fixated on this whole 2nd gen will never get 30mpg nonsense. . . No one said anything about getting BETTER mpg, I stated that if you do any 70-75mph highway travel expect a rather large decrease from your existing fuel economy depending on tire size and gearing.

He didn't state how he used his truck, nor did he claim he was looking at maximum performance no matter the cost so I included relevant information to the discussion so the OP can make a fully informed decision.

Not everyone here uses their truck the way you do. I have re-geared a couple vehicles and while it was great in town and I laughed at the fact my 89 XJ on 33" was able to outrun vehicles it should not have been able to, but highway travel was not fun.

I'm not saying dont do it, it will absolutely make a massive difference, I just want the OP to be aware of both the benefits and drawbacks because we dont know how he uses his truck. Dropping 4.56 gears in my truck would probably be the worst thing I could do with how I use my truck, lots of long highway travel at 75-80mph on stock sized tires.

and because you felt the need to included your lineup and mpg here is mine.
98 Ram = 16-17mpg
97 Camaro Turbo = 19-20mpg
99 CRV = 27mpg

Flyinryan · Apr 7, 2017

To answer the original question, tuned vs. tuned , the Airgap OR M1 2bbl (yes they are different designs, yes they perform almost identical to each other) will make 20-25 whp/20-25 wtq avg more than a similiar combo with the kegger.

I bought a 2000 single cab Dakota RT, and the FIRST thing i did was install a M1 2bbl.

The Kegger mod was proven to be a waste. Untuned we saw a 7 whp/-32 wtq loss at peak, and up to a -45 wtq loss at one spot. It took a VERY aggressive tune, well outside the norm of what I'd offer in a canned tune, to get to the point where the end result was 0 whp/0wtq gained, with small gains at 2500 and above 4500.

Yeret, I now include 1 free update with canned tunes.......Email me when you're ready.

Yeret · Apr 7, 2017

Wow, sweet! I'll make sure to hit you up on that once I get everything in place.

Would you recommend a re-tune for a gear swap? Say if I were to go from a 3.55 final drive to a 4.10 but with the same tire size?

Oh, and for those wondering how my truck is used, basically a daily driver. I spend 95% of my time on the highway. Now of course, I understand that shorter ratio gears will raise my cruising RPM but thanks to overdrive, I've calculated that you can really shrink up the final drive and not raise the cruise RPM that much. And I'm totally fine to raise my cruising RPM if it means my general acceleration will be noticeably quicker.

Hughes Air Gap + tune. How much power?

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