Cleaning and washing your Truck

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chris1965

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I was reading a lot here and I already see, what I see everywhere on car wash or in the cleaning- accessory isle at wal mart. Lots of products and lots of possibilities to get rid of your money and the psychological effect let you believe, you've done something good.
years ago I owned a smart repair business- and I admit- I'm a worker and not a business man, so I was honest to my self and closed it down.
but there are some things I know and lot of things I learned about cleaning and paint, plastic care, aluminum care, leather care, even glass care.
I know, a lot of you guys love to use as many high end products as possible to preserve the shine of your vehicles (ok- I'm not talking about the muddin' freaks who love to carry 2 tons of mud around).
I want to give you some thoughts and some of my experience about cleaning and detailing.
Where to start?
A new vehicle shines. the reason is not a thick layer of wax how a lot of people think. the reason is because the paint is smooth. You have to see the paint under a microscope. highly enlarged it shows, the paint is not as smooth as thought. the surface is a landscape of mountains and valleys. over time, the mountains get higher and the valleys deeper. what happens is, the light reflects not directly to your eye no more, it reflects in all directions and likely more sideways than straight. this let the paint look dull. If now the paint gets waxed, all you do is, you fill the valleys up and reroute the reflection of light. your vehicle will shine again....until the next car wash, where you wipe the wax out of the valleys. The problem here also is, wax binds dirt particle. this makes it even worse, because if you wash the vehicle, you actually scratch the paint with mix of solvent (soap) wax and dirt and over time the vehicle becomes more and more dull. don't forget- we are talking about tenth of a micron!
Now- what to do?
A new vehicle don't need wax. it also don't need special cleaner. Car wash soap is all you need. I love micro fiber rags. wash it out often while washing your vehicle, use plenty of water and make circle movements while wiping.
don't let the soap dry on the paint- I usually do 1/4 of the vehicle and rinse the soap off. After finishing, rinse the vehicle good. now use a new micro fiber rag and dry the vehicle. I don't have to say- also clean the corners and hard to reach regions. I also spray the wheel arches good with water.
Now- what to do, when the shine starts dimming?
There are products on the market with very soft sanding material included.
what these products do is, the sand the tips of the mountains in the paint off and reroute the reflection of the light in the desired direction- toward your eyes and the vehicle will shine again- but remember- don't use this every time- one time that's it. we don't want to strip the paint, we just want to refinish the surface! I usually polish a layer of Teflon polish (yes expensive) after washing and cleaning. the Teflon finish will protect your paint for almost a year. I usually do this before winter time- this protects the paint in the worse time of the year.
If the paint is really dull, then a sanding polish is necessary. don't press to hard, just polish with low pressure . you will be shocked first- because the vehicle will look like stripped off of clear coat. but the next stage fixes it. take the fine sanding finish polish. this will smoothen the paint and the paint will shine. after Teflon finish- the shine is there to stay and don't come off after next car wash.
yes- it is so easy. it's not the amount of products or brand names- it's about the right stuff.
If you have flies or dried bird poop on the paint- take a old newspaper and layer 4-5 layers on it. wet the newspaper and keep it wet. after ~20 minutes, take the newspapers off and you will see- the stuff wipes off like it's nothing and it's soft, so nothing scratches.
Chrome- if you wash your vehicle chrome does not scratch. before washing, I use a old hand towel and wipe the dirt off from the chrome- bumpers and rims. this way you will have no streaks in the chrome after washing. After washing also - wipe the chrome with a damp micro fiber rag. it will shine like new.
now plastic. I know, there are a lot of products out there in all price and quality categories- the newest is this wipe new stuff.
here is what you can do: forget about it.
all you need is amoral tire shine.
Amoral tire shine has uv-protection, is not sticky and also don't let the plastic shine that you don't see anything else in the windshield than the reflection of the dash board.
outside plastic stays black- even through rain. I apply it after every car wash and all black plastic parts looking like new. even bleached out dash boards looking like new and keep their natural new shine without being an annoying reflection in the windshield.
I also use amoral tire shine for the plastic headlights. try it- you will be amazed.
last but not least- I use tire shine for the rubber door seals. it keeps the rubber flexible, it does not dry out and it prevents the seal from freezing to the door in the winter, which destroy the seals.
At the end- one more tip- take your time. cleaning a car takes hours. take breaks, drink something, smoke your cigarette, and go on. I am usually 4-5 hours on my truck every other weekend (yes- washing too often is not good either) except in spring when the pollen are around.

Glass- don't use glass cleaner for cleaning inside if the windshield is not so dirty from smoke residue that it's already part of the vehicle. honestly. try a t-shirt or a normal bath towel. another possibility is newspaper. you will have no streaks in the glass. even grease spots from fingers will be gone and leaves no streaks.

if you got dirt or (women have that often) make up on the headliner- first wipe with clean micro fiber rag. hard spots- put very little grease lightning on the rag and wipe. your headliner will look like new.


Just a last hint- clean always in the door gap to body- if that is kept clean, the vehicle has a very taken care- appearance. If you want to sell your vehicle- this can be the last kick for somebody to buy it.

I know- there are many more things to do- but this are just the basics. But I think it helps to prevent somebody from overspending on cleaning supplies and disappointing experiences after hours of detailing.

Overall: a indicator of a clean vehicle is how the water rolls off. if the water sits in small balls on the paint- all is good. if the balls getting bigger- it might be just dirt. if the water sits in big spots on the paint, action is needed.

Keep it clean!
 

Joshwaa

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Umm.. I think I agree with about 10% of what you wrote. Armor all really? New car does not need protection or special cleaning? Seriously? I usually try not to contradict or disagree but you are way off base here.
 
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chris1965

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well, I know it was a lot to read- but you missed the point.
you need good car wash soap for a new truck and that's it. period. all stuff you smear on top of the paint either destroys the surface or just creates a layer on top of it. If you keep it clean, you don't need nothing else.
If you check the ingredience of amoral tire shine (I'm not talking about the normal amoral) you will see- it's the same stuff you have in all these expensive name brand conditioning and cleaning products.
You don't have to agree, you don't have to do it.
But if you're interested: google about paint and why it shines. the point is, that most of the people don't know why- they just believe what some products promise and that's the reason why you have to do it over and over again and buy more and more of their products.
If you want to save some time, money and frustration, try it.
 

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So you are saying all I need is good soap. What about UV protection? What about resistance to scratches and swirls? What about resistance to salt? Does soap provide this. I think you need to read up a little more about paint protection. Why are all autos sprayed with a clear coat if paint protection is not needed?
 
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chris1965

chris1965

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Josh. That I closed my business down does not mean it was because I didn't know. I just was too lazy for the paperwork what comes with it. I'm in car business for 35 years and have an engineering degree in car technic. I think I know a little about that stuff.
All questions you talk about- I can answer you.
Rost protection: if you know about corrosion, it happens when you have bare metal and corrosive actuator like salt- this is a chemical corrosion (I don't want to include electrochemical corrosion- that would go too far). but that this happens, there has to be blank metal. the salt does not diffund through the paint. there must be a damage there before. This is a separate treatment and has nothing to do with cleaning.
I was not talking about corrosion- but about keeping your car clean.
UV protection - well if you would understand about amoral tire shine- it has a very good uv protection included- because that's the purpose of treating the tires- that they don't dry rot. All plastics and rubber having one base component- and that's oil. all oil based plastic and rubber having the same chemical base construction and also can be treated similar. this means- what it's good for rubber is also good for plastic. Of course not all of it- but we are talking not about specialized products in chemical industry- I'm talking about the every day product for the normal customer. and like I said- compare the ingredience of amoral with all other cleaners and you will see- there is not much difference.
to protect paint from UV- well- that's another fary tale. of course uv light bleaches and weather paint. and it does it through wax or anything else you put on top of the paint. If you want to uv-protect paint, you would have to mix it into the structure of paint and not on top of it. but if you keep it clean and shiny, it takes longer. if it gets dull, it's a combination of everything- uv, dirt, scratches, etc...- and there I talked about polish with mild sanding function in combination with Teflon finish. If you have ever seen especially red cars looking white on top, polish the vehicle and it will be red again. you filled the cracks up. that's all. but if you polish it with sanding lotion, you will fix the rough surface structure and the paint will shine like new for a long time- and not until next car wash, where you wash the wax out.
and no- not all vehicles are painted with clear coat. only the metallic paints and water based paints. The normal acrylic paint has no clear coat.
The water based paint has an acrylic clear coat because it does not shine by it self and is also not really hard and resistant.
 

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Ok so if you have no protection on your paint how do you keep the salt from marring your paint during removal. Also how do you keep bug guts from eating into your paint. Do you constantly remove them each time you drive?

I guess it is all opinion and you are entitled to yours. I just disagree.
 

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Having a hard time believing what you are saying. According to Meguiars, 95% of cars made today come with clear coat. Obviously keeping a vehicle clean is part of good maintenance and will go a long way towards keeping the appearance as new.

I would agree that in a sterile environment no additional protection top off the clear would be needed, unfortunately, in the real world, acidic rain, blowing dust, mud, anything that comes in contact with the clear causes the surface to be scarred and appear swirled or dull. That's why you need to add sealant and/or wax, to add a sacrificial layer so the damage occurs to something that is easily repaired/applied by consumers.
 
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chris1965

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Ok so if you have no protection on your paint how do you keep the salt from marring your paint during removal. Also how do you keep bug guts from eating into your paint. Do you constantly remove them each time you drive?

I guess it is all opinion and you are entitled to yours. I just disagree.

No it's not opinion.
The easy part first. bugs and bird poop is acid and eats actually the paint off. It's important to remove it immediately. normally it's enough to spray it off with water- water is thinning the acid in the bird poop and insect bodies and dissolves it.
the problem is more the chitin from the insects. this glues with the guts on the paint. if you wipe it off, it will scratch the paint. this is what you see- scratches. that's where I said: layer newspaper on top and water it good and keep it moist- it will loosen the guts and soften the chitin and you can wipe it off easy without scratching the paint.
Salt is not marrying with your paint. salt sits on it and when it dries, it is crystals. if you wipe over it, you scratch the paint.
Salt removal is easy. water water water. and after spraying it off good, use like normal good car wash soap and a micro fiber rag. wash the rag out often and good. When I drove through salt, as soon as the weather gets better, I drive through a car wash with them soft rags instead of them hard brushes. I buy the underbody wash. this takes care of most of the underbody and sprays the salt out of the corners. you can do it by hand with the hose, but you will not reach all regions like the carwash.
then wash the vehicle at home like normal. that takes care of it.
and like I said. if you have corrosion, there was a damage before. other than that- there is no way the vehicle does rust.
Ok- I always spray underbody protection on my underbody and frame as soon as I bought it. this also helps to keep the underbody rust free.
 

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Chris
Thanks for your opinion on caring for your vehicle. Hopefully others that read your posts will understand that what you are saying is just your opinion. I too disagree with the bulk of your ideas and I will continue to detail my truck in a way that I believe will provide the most protection for my truck, using the products that I believe are the best for my application.
Jay
 

tipnitty

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Chris
Thanks for your opinion on caring for your vehicle. Hopefully others that read your posts will understand that what you are saying is just your opinion. I too disagree with the bulk of your ideas and I will continue to detail my truck in a way that I believe will provide the most protection for my truck, using the products that I believe are the best for my application.
Jay

I have to agree with Jay.

I have a lot of things that I disagree with in your post. If that's how you wish to clean your truck and the theories you stand by, by all means. Biggest being this one.

A new vehicle don't need wax

I HIGHLY recommend putting a fresh coat of wax when a vehicle is purchased.
 
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chris1965

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Chris
Thanks for your opinion on caring for your vehicle. Hopefully others that read your posts will understand that what you are saying is just your opinion. I too disagree with the bulk of your ideas and I will continue to detail my truck in a way that I believe will provide the most protection for my truck, using the products that I believe are the best for my application.
Jay

jay- I did not mean to convince anybody. I know, everybody has his own way and believes in what he does.
from the beginning I just gave tips for people who are no experts in cleaning and just try with basic possibilities to keep their vehicle as long as possible in good shape. I even go that far- if you are not experienced- don't even start polishing your vehicle by your self- mostly you damage more than you do good by choosing the wrong product or damaging the body with a unlucky move with the polish machine.
further I just answered questions and explained why.
You don't have to "believe" it. I just did this beside all other vehicle works until 10 years ago professionally- and I just thought the one or the other might benefit from my experience.
At the end it's like in a supermarket- you can buy it or not- your decision.
but how do you know if I'm right or wrong if you don't try it?
I tried a lot of stuff-and you can tell me how you do it and with what- and I'm sure- I did that already too. beside learning traditionally- and today I'm glad that I did- just because you stir the coffee always counter clock wise, does not mean, that clockwise is wrong.

that was the purpose. not more, not less. But thanks for the critics.
 
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chris1965

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I have to agree with Jay.

I have a lot of things that I disagree with in your post. If that's how you wish to clean your truck and the theories you stand by, by all means. Biggest being this one.



I HIGHLY recommend putting a fresh coat of wax when a vehicle is purchased.

ok. then explain who recommends this, why and what exactly does it do. If you read my post- everything is explained. so if you say you need to do this, I need to know why- maybe I can learn something.

I can even tell you, that if you purchase a vehicle which is built not longer than 6 months ago, you should not do anything with your paint, because the paint is still not completely settled. everything you do to it, will damage it for the rest of the vehicles lifetime. Yes, I worked in a vehicle plant. Yes I also worked partly in the paint shop and in the paint repair shop. so please give me the facts. and not guessing or I think or the buddy of my daddies cousins uncle said...- facts.

If somebody sits in front of the tv and believes everything the commercial says- oh- wipe your plastic with wipe new and it stays forever... use this product it's better than the leading brand (dern- why isn't it then the leading brand?) this protects your car. blahblahblah... well- sorry- but I want to know what exactly it does before I put it on something. and if I know what paint is and how paint looks like and how it reacts, which chemical components are in and what does it reacts with- I know what to do. But that's me and everybody can do what ever he wants.

no offense. but I just wanted to give some tips how to take easily care of your car if you're not an expert. well, I am an expert and I don't do it differently. I can explain everything and especially WHY.
But obviously it's not wanted. I mark this off. Thanks for the feedback.
 

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Chris,
Many of us in this section have "learned from experience" by using different products to see which ones produce the best results cost effectively. We also have researched various manufactures and talked to professional detailers that have been in the business for years and years as well as researching sites such as autopia and autogeek. This, in addition to our personal experiences, leads us to the way we take care of our trucks and additionally as to how we answer questions from others about detailing. We all use different products, with some exceptions, however the basics remain about the same. As you have said, it is a choice, and just because we happen to disagree with some of what you say, if you believe it is the correct way to take care of your particular truck then as you said, it is your choice. I am by no means taking shots at you for taking the time to start this thread and tell everyone about how you detail, I am only saying that I do it differently than you.
Jay
 

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The danger lies in someone who doesn't know performing vehicle care with what I think is incorrect procedures. I think we can all agree that keeping a vehicle clean is a good step, but as far as not applying any other protective coatings, I must also disagree with you. Hopefully people will do their own research rather than taking any one "opinion" as gospel.
 
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chris1965

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Jay,
I know about this and I know that a lot of people putting a lot of effort in their vehicles, which sometimes cost half of a house.
I also made the experience, that some products do more harm than good.
I worked in a manufacturing plant- every single substance had to be tested and be approved before using it on the paint. I did that testing. and I know what the products do with the paint because I made the expertise for them and there are many products out there who should not even be on a shelf.
I've seen paint treated with several products under the electron microscope and I can tell you- if a simple cleaning product dissolves the surface of paint, then it's very concerning.
I don't need agreement but if somebody tells me I'm wrong, then he has to tell me why.
if somebody says- look- I use this and this and I made good experience with it in addition to what you say- well that's a whole other story.
If you really read what I wrote, then you will not find anything wrong. and like I said- I was not talking to "experts" but to normal guys having a hard time to clean their vehicle with minimal experience and minimal effort.
Maybe I understood the answers wrong, but well- I'm probably too specific. It's not the amount of tools and how much they cost- it's about the right tools for the job. and mostly less is more.
That's all.

Chris
 

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You said for salt just water water water. What about drought areas. People who do not have access to water such as condos? Show me some ones car that has no protection and I will show you swirl marks on their paint. I would love to do a comparison between my truck and yours after 5 years.
 

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There are always more than one way to do something. If your happy with your results, and I'm happy with my results, then :favorites13:. You are basing your ideas on your experience and I'm basing mine on about 60 years of being on the dumb end of the wash mitt and wax applicator and on seeing the products, paint, equipment and processes evolve over the past half century.
Jay
 

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ok. then explain who recommends this, why and what exactly does it do. If you read my post- everything is explained. so if you say you need to do this, I need to know why- maybe I can learn something.

I can even tell you, that if you purchase a vehicle which is built not longer than 6 months ago, you should not do anything with your paint, because the paint is still not completely settled. everything you do to it, will damage it for the rest of the vehicles lifetime. Yes, I worked in a vehicle plant. Yes I also worked partly in the paint shop and in the paint repair shop. so please give me the facts. and not guessing or I think or the buddy of my daddies cousins uncle said...- facts.

If somebody sits in front of the tv and believes everything the commercial says- oh- wipe your plastic with wipe new and it stays forever... use this product it's better than the leading brand (dern- why isn't it then the leading brand?) this protects your car. blahblahblah... well- sorry- but I want to know what exactly it does before I put it on something. and if I know what paint is and how paint looks like and how it reacts, which chemical components are in and what does it reacts with- I know what to do. But that's me and everybody can do what ever he wants.

no offense. but I just wanted to give some tips how to take easily care of your car if you're not an expert. well, I am an expert and I don't do it differently. I can explain everything and especially WHY.
But obviously it's not wanted. I mark this off. Thanks for the feedback.

Well I'm glad that you and I have had such differences in our experience. Some of the worst paint defects I've seen have come from vehicles with less that 10 miles on the odometer. As far as a large factory is concerned, paint and clear coat, then out the door. My friend ordered a brand new Silverado from the factory. When it was delivered to his door, the paint had orange peel and swirling on most panels of the truck. Which he had to take back to the dealership and have wet sanded and polished again. To which we applied sealant and wax. Another example, when my truck was purchased with 7 miles on the odometer. The water beading was less than desirable. Light marring on the side panels. Just because the paint is new doesn't mean it's perfect and could use work. Finally, my uncle purchased a new Lexus off the floor. The paint was mirrored and perfect. He couldn't find a flaw that bothered him. Yet, he couldn't attest to the sealant and wax that had been applied to the paint after the first wash he gave it. Had it done himself.

If you feel the need to get offended because we disagree, please go. We are all here to help each other and I'm not trying stir up any trouble.
 
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chris1965

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You said for salt just water water water. What about drought areas. People who do not have access to water such as condos? Show me some ones car that has no protection and I will show you swirl marks on their paint. I would love to do a comparison between my truck and yours after 5 years.

you answer yourself. the swirl marks coming from salt and dirt particles scratching on your paint with not enough water and no good rinse before you even start.
I just sold my 07 and the paint looked like new. my wife's old 06 charger same way. like new. we both have now '14 - my RAM and my wife's charger and absolutely no issues. I also don't say you should not do it- I just say it's not really needed. If you know what hurts your paint, how and why, and adjust your cleaning habits toward it, you see, that a lot of stuff is not bad but it ain't helping either. to answer this is as same as you have 2 engines breaking down at 250000 miles - the one says- it broke down because you you used slik 50 and the other says yours broke down because you did not use slick 50. who can prove either way? nobody.
and that's how my post should had been looked at from the begin with.
and that was how it was meant.
 
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chris1965

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Well I'm glad that you and I have had such differences in our experience. Some of the worst paint defects I've seen have come from vehicles with less that 10 miles on the odometer. As far as a large factory is concerned, paint and clear coat, then out the door. My friend ordered a brand new Silverado from the factory. When it was delivered to his door, the paint had orange peel and swirling on most panels of the truck. Which he had to take back to the dealership and have wet sanded and polished again. To which we applied sealant and wax. Another example, when my truck was purchased with 7 miles on the odometer. The water beading was less than desirable. Light marring on the side panels. Just because the paint is new doesn't mean it's perfect and could use work. Finally, my uncle purchased a new Lexus off the floor. The paint was mirrored and perfect. He couldn't find a flaw that bothered him. Yet, he couldn't attest to the sealant and wax that had been applied to the paint after the first wash he gave it. Had it done himself.

If you feel the need to get offended because we disagree, please go. We are all here to help each other and I'm not trying stir up any trouble.

do you ever asked the question why?
why was swirls on the paint? obviously somebody did it.
why was orange peel in it? well- was not painted good.
why was light marrying? it was not painted good.

does any of these problems have anything to do with paint treatment after painting? no.

that's what I'm talking about.
 
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