Regeneration

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Texasez

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Regen is just a fancy liberal term for we're gonna make your nice diesel cost you so much in repairs you'll have to drive a Prius!
 

Birddog

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6.7 Cummins TD, 3.73
I learned something new today... I purchased a brand new 2500 CD today. Starting with 2013 the Cummins needs fluid fur regeneration. Mine has a fluid reservoir where the gas tank is.



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bitNine

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Cummins 6.7
Just wanted to set the record straight here about the Cummins DEF system. DEF doesn't have any effect on the DPF because DEF is injected post-DPF, and DEF has nothing to do with particulate reduction. It only helps to convert harmful gases into harmless nitrogen (N2) and water (H2O). The DPF still catches particles, and the system will still go into regen. The manual says that you need to drive at freeway speeds for 45 minutes to clear out the filter.

Here's a video on how the Cummins SCR system works. It's a 2010 video, because this system was first implemented on 2011 model year Ram chassis cab trucks. 2010 Cummins Aftertreatment System Animation - YouTube

If you'd like to learn more about DEF itself and the chemical process that happens when DEF is injected into the exhaust, check out this PDF: http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/pdfs/product_lit/americas_brochures/MB10033.pdf

I'm about a month away from receiving my new truck, and I've been doing a lot of research on this DEF system over the past 8 months to determine if it was better or worse to go with a 2013 or a 2012. The claim is that the 2013 trucks should get better fuel mileage, but we'll see how that goes. The additional cost of DEF is minimal. It's used at a 50:1 diesel to DEF ratio. This means that for every 50 gallons of diesel fuel used, the system uses roughly one gallon of DEF. If Diesel is $3.60 (today's price at my station around the corner), that means if you were to spend $180 on diesel, you'll now spend $182.79. My closest truck stop with DEF sells it for $2.79/gallon. Overall cost of operation increases by 1.5%. Equivalent to a 4 cent increase in the cost of diesel from $3.60/gallon.

While some like to consider this a "liberal" system, and indeed since it's a "save the earth" hippie thing, that's somewhat true. But if you've ever been to a country where diesel is heavily subsidized, and over half the vehicles are spewing black smoke in your face as they drive by, these are systems that may not make your butt-dyno happy, but they will reduce overall emissions, and give diesels a better image overall, and give us cleaner local air, even if the planet itself is already fūcked. The claim is that with this system, the engine has near-zero emissions. Lower than many of today's gasoline engines. As for repair costs, only the future will tell. I think the ultimate question is whether or not the DEF system is part of the powertrain warranty.
 

Birddog

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Just wanted to set the record straight here about the Cummins DEF system. DEF doesn't have any effect on the DPF because DEF is injected post-DPF, and DEF has nothing to do with particulate reduction. It only helps to convert harmful gases into harmless nitrogen (N2) and water (H2O). The DPF still catches particles, and the system will still go into regen. The manual says that you need to drive at freeway speeds for 45 minutes to clear out the filter.

Here's a video on how the Cummins SCR system works. It's a 2010 video, because this system was first implemented on 2011 model year Ram chassis cab trucks. 2010 Cummins Aftertreatment System Animation - YouTube

If you'd like to learn more about DEF itself and the chemical process that happens when DEF is injected into the exhaust, check out this PDF: http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/pdfs/product_lit/americas_brochures/MB10033.pdf

I'm about a month away from receiving my new truck, and I've been doing a lot of research on this DEF system over the past 8 months to determine if it was better or worse to go with a 2013 or a 2012. The claim is that the 2013 trucks should get better fuel mileage, but we'll see how that goes. The additional cost of DEF is minimal. It's used at a 50:1 diesel to DEF ratio. This means that for every 50 gallons of diesel fuel used, the system uses roughly one gallon of DEF. If Diesel is $3.60 (today's price at my station around the corner), that means if you were to spend $180 on diesel, you'll now spend $182.79. My closest truck stop with DEF sells it for $2.79/gallon. Overall cost of operation increases by 1.5%. Equivalent to a 4 cent increase in the cost of diesel from $3.60/gallon.

While some like to consider this a "liberal" system, and indeed since it's a "save the earth" hippie thing, that's somewhat true, if you've ever been to a country where diesel is heavily subsidized, and over half the vehicles are spewing black smoke in your face as they drive by, these are systems that may not make your butt-dyno happy, but they will reduce overall emissions, and give diesels a better image overall, and give us cleaner local air, even if the planet itself is already fūcked. The claim is that with this system, the engine has near-zero emissions. Lower than many of today's gasoline engines. As for repair costs, only the future will tell. I think the ultimate question is whether or not the DEF system is part of the powertrain warranty.


Man you're good! Are you sure you aren't a Ram truck designer in disguise?:secret:
 

bitNine

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2013
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Cummins 6.7
I learned some additional information about why the trucks with the DEF system should get better mileage. Apparently EGR is the major cause for the excessive amounts of soot that end up being caught by the DPF, causing regeneration, resulting in excessive fuel use. When SCR is added to the system, EGR is programmed to be used less often, causing less soot to be generated. EGR isn't as necessary because she SCR system does the job of removing the harmful gasses. This keeps the DPF from becoming clogged as often, resulting in less regeneration, and thus less excess fuel used for that reason.
 

Birddog

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Interesting. I took my new diesel on a trip with my near 10.5k lb travel trailer and I got 12.5 mpg, better than my old 5.7 hemi which was at 9.5 mpg. That I expected. What I didn't expect was the 21 mpg highway drive with my new truck. I figured that would be the peak after the diesel broke in. I was only getting 20. 5 with my hemi. I know diesels brake in after 5k miles and the milage usually gets better. At least it did with my diesel car. Has anyone else experienced an increase in mpg after the brake in our am I just hoping for nothing? I can only assume this system is improving my mpg as you described. By all rights, the larger displacement and increased vehicle weight should be using more fuel.



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COPGUY

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New Jersey
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6.7 Cummins
Pick me pick me! I think I got the system down pretty well! lol

Dodge trucks use a diesel particulate filter (DPF) on their diesel trucks.
Unlike powerstroke and duramax, which use a DEF system, cummins dont need any extra fluid for their systems.

The filter takes the particulate out of the exhaust. As the filter fills up with particulate it needs to go into regeneration before it gets full.
There are two types of regeneration, active and passive.
Active regeneration uses diesel fuel as a catalyst to raise the temperature and burn out the particulate (this is where a DPF system differs from a DEF system, DEF systems use a seperate DEF fluid as a catalyst) Active regeneration can use over a gallon of diesel fuel to burn out the particulate.
Passive regeneration is when the exhaust gas temperatures are high enough to burn out the particulate on its own without the help of a catalyst. Passive regeneration is the reason why you here people say that you need to work these new trucks hard and basically beat on them (particulate burns at around 600*C or about 1100*F, most sled pullers and high hp diesel guys cut their EGTs off around 1300*F)

As long as you dont allow the filter to fill up you shouldnt have to replace the filters or have any problems. Unfortunatly these trucks dont always go into active regen like they should, the filters become full and clogged and the truck goes into limp mode, making you go slowly to the dealership for a $1000-$1500 replacement filter

Any more questions hit me!


I'm still new to the diesel world, but my truck really isn't a work truck. You said to beat or drive the truck hard to clean it out is a good thing, can I get on it like a Hemi gas engine? Will all the torque and power I feel like i'm going to blow the engine to pieces if I jump on it? I got a lot to learn!
 

Power247

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You just need to give the engine time to get up to temp. Once you are a 180° or above you are good to go. The transmissions are the weaker link so keep that in mind as you give her a workout ;-)

tap tap tappa-roo
 
Last edited:

Southernsmoke

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Stance

I really like the way this truck is setup. Would you mind listing your lift tire size and offset for your rims? Good job on a tight budget man.
 

Roger Mabry

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Do not let it full - goes into Limp Mode

Am waiting for the local dealer to reopen after Labor Day. My filter was at 90% (mostly city driving) and I was on the way to the highway to run it for a short trip... it filled up to 100%...

At the same time the ETC (Electronic Throttle Control) light came on... have to go to dealer for sure... probably needs a new pedal assembly since I pressed so hard trying to get the truck to move...

Limp Mode is first gear only and max about 40 mph... cars were trying to get around me....only 9K miles but not enough highway driving.

2500 mile trip planned for after Labor Day is scuttled until I am sure it is fixed properly.
 

MyTruck

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I bought my 2105 Ram 2500 6.7 1.5 months ago. I have about 1K miles and my average mpg was about 18 mpg. The first 300 miles was from the dealer to home. My commute to work is only 5 miles and I go through neighborhood streets. So it is a very light-duty for the truck. I bought it because I plan to buy a fifth-wheeler some day. Up to this day, I haven't seen any lights pertaining to regeneration. My DEF needle has pointed at the same location. Maybe it too soon to tell.

Carlo
 
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