How To: 13-14 premium cluster upgrade

cgeorgemo said:

There are a number of things wrong with that service managers statement but I'm going to keep this simple.

The mileage of the truck is recorded and stored in the BCM.
The cluster is a read out device not the storage device.
The reason they would want to void a warranty is because someone could put a low mileage cluster in a high mileage car and then try to get warranty work done they don't qualify for. A simple scan of the BCM and the actual mileage is revealed.
I personally have had my truck repaired 3 times for minor things (door handle, leaking brake light, and airbag light) and they have all been covered under warranty with not a peep about the new cluster.



And if push comes to shove you go to an arbitrator and ask them to have the dealership scan the BCM find the mileage and move on with the warranty work. Just because they say no doesn't take away your right to arbitration.

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The cluster is certainly not merely a read out device. If it were, there'd be no need to have clusters programmed at all, and it would be setup so we could just swap them out and they would display whatever mileage the truck sent them. I'm not saying that the truck doesn't have other modules that store the mileage in addition to the cluster, just saying the cluster certainly stores the mileage.

cptwing said:

I have not yet installed mine as I need to have the mileage, and hours set.
I was at a local dealership the other day and just for kicks inquired about having them send out the cluster and leaving my truck there so the process could be documented for DMV and warranty reasons. The SM said he would look into and get back to me.

I just a voicemail from them stating they cannot do it, and strongly recommend I do not as it will absolutely void all warrantees. I am not sure I really believe that but if push comes to shove its us against Fiat, and Fiat can afford to push and shove much harder than we can.

Still mulling the idea over I know a lot of you guys will make arguments, that the PCM, BCM, ECM or whatever stores the actual mileage and there is no way they can deny me warranty etc, and that all sound good but again Fiat holds all the cards pretty much here. But I want this cluster, what a conundrum, I going to keep looking for a dealer who can at least document the process for me.

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Have you considered calling the DMV to see if they have a means or legal way of documenting or dealing with this themselves? I am in the same boat as you currently and have not gotten mine programmed either, nor called the DMV, but it is something I've been thinking about doing.

It is legal to correct the mileage without documenting the "change" because there is no "change". The dealership is not allowed to correct mileage so they send it to the same kind of places a consumer does to have the service performed.

krb686 said:

The cluster is certainly not merely a read out device. If it were, there'd be no need to have clusters programmed at all, and it would be setup so we could just swap them out and they would display whatever mileage the truck sent them. I'm not saying that the truck doesn't have other modules that store the mileage in addition to the cluster, just saying the cluster certainly stores the mileage.

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The fact that the cluster remembers the mileage doesn't make it the official storage place of the vehicles mileage. That is the BCM. The cluster is a replacement part that happens to store the mileage as well.

cgeorgemo said:

The fact that the cluster remembers the mileage doesn't make it the official storage place of the vehicles mileage. That is the BCM. The cluster is a replacement part that happens to store the mileage as well.

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...which happens to be almost exactly what I said. Did you read the last sentence?

"I'm not saying that the truck doesn't have other modules that store the mileage in addition to the cluster, just saying the cluster certainly stores the mileage."

Merely making a point based off of your word choice of calling it a "read out" device, which seems to infer that it merely reads out data from the truck and doesn't store it.

On another note, I'm in the process of trying to figure out how to program these things. I've built a harness that extends the cluster connection and routes it through some additional pins so I can connect a USB oscilloscope/logic analyzer. Next I'll be making a circuit with a CAN controller and transceiver. Assuming I can find the sequence of bits that get sent to increment the mileage, I can see this working easily for bringing a cluster with lower mileage up to a higher level. Not sure about bringing one lower tho.

What if the mileage isn't incremented, what if it is just reported to the cluster. Then there would be the ability to send whatever number you want.

Well that would be amazing and would make this attempt much more valuable, however i am fairly certain that isnt the case because of what we said earlier. You can stick a premium cluster unprogrammed into your truck and drive it and the mileage on the cluster will increase as normal. If the cluster just received the mileage count from the BCM, that wouldn't happen and it would also make the entire programming aspect unnecessary since the cluster would merely display what the BCM told it. Plug and play swaps would be possible with no programming. I certainly wish that were the case.

There is also the possibility that the cluster computes the mileage from the wheel sensors directly. I imagine that is not the case and the BCM does that but it would make this far more difficult.

Also, assuming the cluster does get increment signals like I expect, it may also be possible to send a negative value or in the event Chrysler programmers or whoever made the software didnt check all cases comprehensively, it may be possible to increment the mileage positively all the way to the max value and have it wrap back around at 0.

When ICS was setting mine I was in contact with Stephanie because Dan wanted to be sure that the hours I wanted programmed were correct. I told her what I wanted and she said that Dan entered the information and it wrote it to the cluster. It took him all of 2 seconds once he knew for sure what value to put in. That makes me think they are entering the values we choose and either they get written directly or perhaps the program they use rolls the numbers automatically like you said.

Sorry I should have been more clear. What I believe is that there is an official method of going about this that places such as ICS and other stores use. In other words, there is a legitimate command that can be sent, probably from the OBD2, that actually does "program" the cluster and set it to whatever value they enter in, like you stated.

Unfortunately, the protocol specifications for CAN are not widely and freely available on the internet. I have tried search for quite a long time. There is a CAN specification document available from the ISO that costs several hundred dollars. I imagine companies such as ICS and others pay the fee and then have access to the specification and can create circuitry/software to correctly send that "program" command. Either that, or they have a deal with Chrysler/Fiat/Whoever and pay fees to them to have access to the specification.

What I'm trying to do is not the same. Snooping on my cluster and watching the CAN signals, I will of course never see that "program" command go by. All I will see is the signals that all of our trucks use to increment the cluster's mileage, and those are the only signals I can truly hope to recreate. The only other hope would be to "brute force" send every possible command ID, but I definitely don't want to run the risk of screwing up every other piece of data in the cluster.

The guy that did mine used the OBD2 port to set the mileage and engine hours in the cluster. He had to use a donor truck to set the values. He is currently trying to figure out what you are trying to figure out so he doesn't need a donor truck and can then program them at his workbench. When I spoke to him last, he needed a premium cluster to test with, but the supply has dried up (at lower prices).

That's really interesting. Do you have any idea why he needs a donor truck? And do you mean any donor truck or the actual donor of the premium cluster? Maybe he is accessing the mileage from the BCM of the original donor somehow.

Also, do you have any clue what kind of tool or device he uses to program the mileage/hours?

krb686 said:

That's really interesting. Do you have any idea why he needs a donor truck? And do you mean any donor truck or the actual donor of the premium cluster? Maybe he is accessing the mileage from the BCM of the original donor somehow.

Also, do you have any clue what kind of tool or device he uses to program the mileage/hours?

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He uses his own ram to program the clusters. IE plug cluster sent to him into his truck to program.


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CuylerTech said:

He uses his own ram to program the clusters. IE plug cluster sent to him into his truck to program.


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Ok I got that so he plugs in their cluster into his truck. But what kind of tool or device does he then plug into his own OBD2 to actually do the programming is what im wondering.

krb686 said:

Ok I got that so he plugs in their cluster into his truck. But what kind of tool or device does he then plug into his own OBD2 to actually do the programming is what im wondering.

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I know what it is but he would rather not I tell. Just lets say it's about $8K for the to


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CuylerTech said:

I know what it is but he would rather not I tell. Just lets say it's about $8K for the to


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This^^^ I think the only reason his price is the cheapest mail away service to have your cluster corrected is that he has access to a 2014 RAM. $175 and that includes return shipping. He will also work with you to minimize the downtime for your upgrade. He called me when he was ready to do the cluster so I could give him the exact mileage and engine hours. All I had to do after that was not drive until I received the corrected cluster back which he sends back priority 1-3 day service.

Whoever this guy is, if he's trying to figure out the protocol he shouldn't be snooping on the cluster, he should be snooping on his 8000 dollar tool directly. I also dont see why he would need a premium cluster since the program command should be the same regardless of cluster type. He could deconstruct the protocol by programming any old cluster.

Ask him to let me borrow it and il have the command figured out in 10 minutes. Then the next step would be creating a new device designed solely to program. I am sure that 8k tool does much more than just that. The cost of creating said device would probably be less than 10 dollars in parts. Instead of paying to have your cluster programmed, you could just buy this mini tool instead and program your cluster yourself, giving you absolutely 0 offset error due to the time taken to ship the cluster there and back.

He's trying to run a business...as far as why he needs a premium cluster, apparently the 3.5" and 7" clusters have different chipsets. He needs the premium cluster to experiment with instead of experimenting with a customer's hard to find cluster.

I will have a 2015 express with the 3.0 radio and I'm already in the hunt for a new cluster.

So far I have 2 options, one from a 2013 with the 8.4 radio and one with part #56046544AI. Which should I choose for my
application?

Also, what happens if I buy a 6-speed cluster but have an 8 speed truck?

i have a 2014 cluster posted in the for sale section with only 125 miles on it if you are buying a new truck with lower miles...will save you on having to get the new cluster programmed....

these things are plug and play and dont really seem to care much about the rest of the options on the truck.

sausec17 said:

I will have a 2015 express with the 3.0 radio and I'm already in the hunt for a new cluster.

So far I have 2 options, one from a 2013 with the 8.4 radio and one with part #56046544AI. Which should I choose for my
application?

Also, what happens if I buy a 6-speed cluster but have an 8 speed truck?

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Nothing happens going from a 6 speed to an 8 speed for the cluster. I did the same and it has been fine.


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