Intake pushrod #7 fell off rocker.

Hi, this is my first post.

I just purchased my first Dodge, a used 2004 Ram 1500 with a 5.7L Hemi, with 200,000 miles. It was not running right, with misfire on Cylinder #7. We got a decent deal and my Dad is helping me to fix it. He has built a couple of engines before. He is a car guy. I am not so much - but I am learning.

There were no issues with oil or coolant leaks. We did not do a compression test (maybe we should have) but the engine was running.

We knew there was a mechanical issue, and took off the Driver side valve cover. There was quite a lot of sludge and carbonized oil debris caked over everything.

We found the #7 intake pushrod had fallen off the rocker arm. The pushrod seems straight and looks like the other pushrods. There the pushrod is not clogged.

The springs all look unbroken.

The pushrod ends seem to have a wear pattern on the end that is not hemispherical. it is like they have a groove. That same groove seems to be present in the rocker arm.

Valve stems seem evenly worn.

We pulled the head, and got the #7 Intake lifter out (that is the rearmost one, right?). It looks okay. The roller is fine. We pushed in the plunger/piston, and it stuck inside the lifter. we were able to get it to pop out with a pick. This seems like it might be why the pushrod could have fallen out.

Other lifters do not want to slide out easily. They move, but get "caught" on grime.

So my big question is how best to proceed (I am a kid, and cash limited) I see two options...:
a) Rebuild what I have
-recondition both heads $420-600
incl -cleaning - decking? - valve job - valveguides?, -stem seals
- new valve springs - I think yes
- what about pushrods, rockers, rocker "bars"? +$$$???
- what about replacing lifters? a set of 4? all 16? +$55 each set
- Head/Intake gasket set
- 2x headbolt set (torque to yield, so new oned required?) $60

b) suck it up, and invest in a rebuilt long block for $3349, with a $4yr warranty. Start fresh.

Any other things I should think about? I will take a few pictures to attach...

Thanks,

AJ (and Ken) Rock

It seems the idiot before you was too lazy to change oil on a regular basis. If I were you and on a tight budget. I would proceed to remove both heads. Clean and inspect them real well. Then I would just drop in new lifters, since the old ones are the culprit and some new pushrods, cuz theyre cheap and I assume have some wear. Then button it all back together with new gaskets and run it. Id also prob replace the timing chain while your in there. Do a couple oil changes after you get it back running to clean the motor up. Rock auto has parts cheap.

Parts List ... Thoughts?

Heads are off, and look ok. there were no leaks. Gasket surfaces look good. Pushrod tips are worn. Lifter for #7 came out ok. no flat spots. I pushed in the piston, and it stuck slightly. Needed to use a pick to pull it out.

Here is the list of parts we found for a rebuild (we looked all over, but Summit Racing has the best prices so far). We were surprised at the difficulty in finding some parts, like basic pushrods, or rocker arms. Rocker arms are special order. Are there so few parts options available for the 5.7? We are looking for a decent rebuild, not huge performance or anything.

$ 40 2x Fel-Pro ES72200 - Fel-Pro Head Bolt Kits
$121 1x Fel-Pro HS26423PT - Fel-Pro Head Gasket Sets
$265 4x Melling JBK-7521 - Melling Factory Hydraulic Roller Lifters
$120 1x Trick Flow TFS-21457000 - Chromoly Pushrods
$ 74 16x Melling VS-1450 - Melling Valve Springs
$176 2x Mopar Replacement 53021552AA - Replacement Int Rocker Arms
$220 2x Mopar Performance 53021553AA - Performance Exh Rocker Arms

$132 1x Melling M362 - Melling Oil Pumps
$ 77 1x Cloyes Gear 9-0704S - Cloyes Timing Chain Kits
$ 36 1x Fel-Pro TCS46049 - Fel-Pro Performance Timing Cover Gaskets

$1260 parts
$ 600 Head reconditioning (420 if we don't need valve guides)

Any thoughts? We need to order gasket (w/valve seals) and springs so we can take them with the heads to the machine shop.

$600 for reconditioning the heads seems a little steep to me. The pushrods might be cheaper from the dealer, I think I paid $40 per side. You can reuse the timing cover gasket but I'd replace the front seal since you'll have the cover off anyway. The timing kit for the 6.1L has stronger timing chain guides than the 5.7L but that part number says it's for both so I'm not sure which guides you're getting. I'd also add spark plugs, exhaust manifold gaskets and a new crankshaft bolt to the list.

I just ordered 16 spark plugs from summit for $32, champion 570. You can upgrade to 6.1 Hemi pushrods, I think they are about $100 total. Those ones are forged and stronger. I used Hylift Johnson Lifters, they maybe a touch cheaper then the Mellings, and they are American made. I used the Race style for my performance build, but they have regular replacements as well. If you want an upgrade, the 6.1 exhaust springs are a great upgrade over the stock springs, they run about $200 for the set.

chrisp2493 said:

I just ordered 16 spark plugs from summit for $32, champion 570. You can upgrade to 6.1 Hemi pushrods, I think they are about $100 total. Those ones are forged and stronger. I used Hylift Johnson Lifters, they maybe a touch cheaper then the Mellings, and they are American made. I used the Race style for my performance build, but they have regular replacements as well. If you want an upgrade, the 6.1 exhaust springs are a great upgrade over the stock springs, they run about $200 for the set.

Click to expand...

The 6.1L pushrods are too long for the stock 5.7L cam so unless OP is doing a cam swap he needs to stick with the 5.7L push rods

RonJon '06 said:

The 6.1L pushrods are too long for the stock 5.7L cam so unless OP is doing a cam swap he needs to stick with the 5.7L push rods

Click to expand...

Yeah you are right. They are .025 longer. I looked at the difference between them when I switched and they looked the same. I couldn’t tell my naked eye that they were different.

Head work and valve stem

We had talked to two machine shops. They both estimated about $350 to $400 for the pair, incl cleaning, valve job, and milling gasket surface. But the one shop was worried that new valve guides would be needed - and if that were the case, he said $600. So what are the odds that valve guides need to be replaced?

Also, as I looked at the valve stems today, there were some chips around the edges. I am not sure if that means we need to replace the valves or not. It looked minor, but I don't know.

Question, if the machine shop takes a touch off the valve seat (head and valve) for the sealing surface, do they take a touch off the stem as well? Then the clearance to the rocker arm would not change... for just a minor touch up valve job, do I need to worry about pushrod lengths?

8 spark plugs (driver side) are brand new Mopar plugs. The 8 passenger side are old and worn - I think they are the Champions. The plugs for #4 cylinder were found to be loose. We didn't even need a wrench. The plugs we coated with maybe oil up the threads to the hex. I guess it was forced up from the cylinder.

The1ajrock said:

We had talked to two machine shops. They both estimated about $350 to $400 for the pair, incl cleaning, valve job, and milling gasket surface. But the one shop was worried that new valve guides would be needed - and if that were the case, he said $600. So what are the odds that valve guides need to be replaced?

Also, as I looked at the valve stems today, there were some chips around the edges. I am not sure if that means we need to replace the valves or not. It looked minor, but I don't know.

Question, if the machine shop takes a touch off the valve seat (head and valve) for the sealing surface, do they take a touch off the stem as well? Then the clearance to the rocker arm would not change... for just a minor touch up valve job, do I need to worry about pushrod lengths?

Click to expand...

$350-$400 sounds right, I don't know what to tell you about the valve guides. If they remove a few thousandths cleaning up the valve seats and head mating surfaces you don't need to worry about changing the pushrod length, the plungers in the lifters have enough travel to take up that small change in their preload.

The only way to know on the guides is to measure. Engines these days, 200k if they were well maintained, most guides could be ok, but as dirty as you described your engine, it's hard to say. Hopefully you'll get off with just a few being bad, but my brother had some heads recently (Classic Mustang) where all the guides were worn! But if some measure bad, you definitely want to have then replaced (not knurled). Some of that oil on the plugs could be from bad guides. How dirty (oily) is the tailpipe? What do the exhaust manifold runners look like? What about the PVC tube (is it full of wet oil?). Even if you would have done a compression test, it wouldn't tell you if an oil ring was cracked.

I guess I'd have a competent shop do the heads. Find the 'best' guy who's going to do the work ...not the cheapest shop that'll have some high school kid, or new guy toss them about. Even if it cost $600 with all new guides, it's still better than paying $400 a second time due to incompetent work. And that happens sometimes too ...and it's almost impossible to pin any blame on the shop. At least the shop that told you $600 was honest to tell you what it 'could' be, not a low price to get you in the door, then give you the bad news once they have your stuff apart. There's no way to know what the cost will be until they take everything apart and inspect everything. Hear what they say. You could need some new springs too! If it turns out some guides are bad and they correspond to the oily plugs (and exh manifold runners), then I think you can be reasonably confident that was the source of the oil issue, not the pistons. Have them write down on a sheet of paper during disassembly the condition of the valve stem seals so you can compare any broken or cracked seals to the location of the oily spark plugs because seals can do it too.

5.7L or 6.1L Oil pump for 2004 hemi (5.7L)

Heads are at the shop.

Getting the parts order together for the 5.7L. Recall this is a non-performance "budget" rebuild. I wanted to clarify on the oil pump. Summit racing shows:

Melling M342 - Oil Pump, Standard-Volume, Standard Pressure, Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, 5.7L, $117.72
-or-
Melling M362 - Oil Pump, Wet Sump Style, Standard Volume/Pressure, Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, 6.1L, $131.41

Is the 6.1 a direct fit on a stock 5.7?

It also looks like I need Fel-Pro CS26284 Conversion Set Gaskets?

Do i need:
-Cam bolt
-Crank bolt
If so, are there recommended part numbers?

Yes the 6.1 pump is a direct fit. I’m running the 362 on my truck right now. The only difference is the regulator spring inside is different for higher pressure output. It helps but isn’t required for a budget rebuild.
I think the manual stated to replace the crank bolt, not sure on the cam bolt. 3rd strike performance has the bolts, the cam bolt is like $2 so it doesn’t hurt to grab a new one. I used an ARP bolt for the crank bolt, it was $37. A standard replacement bolt should be cheaper

The 6.1L oil pump is a direct bolt on for the 5.7. The guys who do high performance builds and run higher rpm's prefer the 6.1L because it's a higher volume pump. Everything I've read says you should replace the cam and crank bolts when reassembling the engine.

Crank Bolt: 6506340AA

Cam Bolt: 6507480AA

That gasket set will work

I am about ready to take off the front cover and i was considering taking off the oil pan as well. i am worried about the carbonized sludge that was coating my heads when i took them off. Thinking that crud could also be in the pan. The oil pan job sounds prohibitively difficult. What about using a cleaner product instead?

Not sure how far you've gotten since your last post but you might need to drop the pan and unbolt the pickup tube from the block to change the oil pump anyway...

Why not look around for a lower mileage engine at a wrecking yard. Most come with a warranty and these things will run a couple hundred thousand miles plus if taken care of. Pretty easy to look at the oil and other fluids. In my younger days I used several like this. A good yard will let you return it or trade it if you get it home and it's crap inside.

A gasket kit, new plugs and you should be good to go. One thing I used to do was look for ones that were relatively clean, there's a good chance they were recently rebuilt.

OK, so all parts have arrived and we made some progress.

Heads cam back from machine shop. $425 for pair. Included valve job and needed 8 new exhaust valve guides. included was $35 to bead blast valve covers to get crud off inside. They look great. Valves were in good shape.

The 5.7L front cover came off easily and we found the timing chain tensioner and plastic chain sliders in pieces. Chain was starting to cut into the metal backing plate on both sides.

We had trouble with three 18mm bolts for the bracket to the front axle. It seems they were installed with thread locker. So the oil pan came out fine after that. The oil screen was still intact. There was junk in the oil pan (as expected).

We also pulled out all the other lifters. They all looked okay on the roller side. The piston side of most looked crudded up. we have new lifters.

We set to TDC, and saw the cam mark at 12, keyway at 2pm, and crank at 6pm - then removed the chain. We spend a couple hours cleaning the front of the engine. We installed the new timing set without issue, and double checked the timing marks. Everything is lined up. We primed the 6.1L oil pump with vaseline, and installed.

New questions:
1) should we use any RTV around the water passages between the front cover and the block. If so, what is the best way to do that?
2) should we have used thread locker on the Cam shaft bolt (we used a new one, and torqued to 90ft-lb.)

Thanks,

Ken and AJ.

I used RTV in the grove of the timing cover gasket. I’m not sure about thread locker on the bolt though. I personally didn’t, just torqued it to 90lbs. When I disassembled it the bolt was still good and tight from the first can swap I did

Another question - We have new Mopar Rocker shaft assemblies. How should those be prepared? Should we try and pour oil over them? Assembly lube on the pushrod cups and valve tips?