How does AUTO 4WD work/what does it do?

Machria · Dec 14, 2017

ColdCase said:
I don't think there's been near a million built, but half of those produced don't work well partly because they are so hard to be produced consistently. Of those half, many don't bother to complain because its not that bad, but there sure are a lot of shifting complains being reported. Then units built in US plants have way too many issues. Those used in colder climates get a lot of complaints.

I don't even know what your talking about... there are probably 1/2 million Rams on Long Island, NY alone! They are selling like hotcakes the last 2 years here. I've also never herd of any complaints of the shifting, until this thread. Mine is as smooth as butter, I have no idea where it was made, but it's one of the best tranny's I've ever had so far. My F150's tranny was already replaced the first time of three at 38k which is where mine is now.

chrisbh17 · Dec 14, 2017

ColdCase said:
I don't think there's been near a million built, but half of those produced don't work well partly because they are so hard to be produced consistently. Of those half, many don't bother to complain because its not that bad, but there sure are a lot of shifting complains being reported. Then units built in US plants have way too many issues. Those used in colder climates get a lot of complaints.

This could be true, but Im pretty sure anyone with a Hemi has the 8HP70 (I could be wrong but Im almost positive the Hemi cant get the 8HP45).

The 8HP70 is solely produced in Germany and shipped over here to bolt into the RAM. The 8HP45 is licensed and built (or at least assembled) by Chrysler in North America. I think THAT is where you'll see the lack of repeatability. The 8HP70 is used in so many applications, we would be hearing about a LOT of failures, shift complaints, etc.

I for one am actually quite happy with my 8HP70. My truck has the 2000 RPM vibration which I hope ISNT the transmission, simply because the "copy" I have in my truck behaves so nicely I wouldn't want to risk a replacement for no reason.

mohemipar · Dec 14, 2017

I don't remember the exact numbers but Ram has been selling over 500k pickups a year in North America for the past few years with the number climbing each year. There are articles on Allpar somewhere...

KansasArt · Dec 14, 2017

Chrysler says it has sold more than 1 million vehicles equipped with its TorqueFlite 8HP45/845RE 8-speed automatic transmission, first installed in the ’12 Dodge Charger and Chrysler 300. June 16, 2014. Wards Auto

So 3 1/2 yrs ago, Chrysler sold > 1 million 8 speed equipped vehicles. And half of those don't work well? I doubt that. Just because a few people complain about something on a forum doesn't constitute a system wise problem.

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Jeepwalker · Dec 15, 2017

Given that the clutch is engaged electronically, there's probably a fantastic aftermarket opportunity for a tuner to devise a product that will allow the driver to 'customize' the amount of 'lock' the transfer case can achieve. Similar to the pedal commander. Just have to wait.

BossHogg · Dec 15, 2017

CostaRam said:
The 44-44 transfer case is not perfect at all on medium and soft sand as i guess neither in mud!
Driving on soft sand is probably not very common in the US but where i live it is common and sometimes necessary!
I have to admit that it is my fault that i did not checked for the TC when i bought this truck,
but me too feel missleaded by the 4x4 lock and the RAM advertisings who let somebody believe that a 1500 RAM is THE OFFROAD TRUCK.
Chris

I run soft sand often and I don't feel I am having any issues. Many of Michigan's historic lighthouses, particularly off the Upper Penisula on the south shore of Lake Michigan, the lighthouses are at the end of a long single width sandy trail. Not been stuck yet.

From your post, I didn't understand your issues with running in sand/mud.

As far as re-naming the 4WD Lock, good question since it seems to only lower the latency of putting power on the front axle. My suggestion would be to move the low latency of 4WD Lock to Auto 4X4 and simply delete the 4WD Lock button.

cbsmith · Dec 15, 2017

Jeepwalker said:
Given that the clutch is engaged electronically, there's probably a fantastic aftermarket opportunity for a tuner to devise a product that will allow the driver to 'customize' the amount of 'lock' the transfer case can achieve. Similar to the pedal commander. Just have to wait.

There was a very detailed post here a couple months ago that explained the system in detail. There is an electronic clutch that engages to use 4x4, but once the electronic clutch engages the transfer case is still not locked in. There is a ball ramp system after that clutch that needs rotational difference between the front and rear axles to engage the ball ramp. Even if you programmed the electronic clutch to engage with a tuner, there is no way to engage the ball ramp without a rotational difference.

chrisbh17 · Dec 15, 2017

cbsmith said:
There was a very detailed post here a couple months ago that explained the system in detail. There is an electronic clutch that engages to use 4x4, but once the electronic clutch engages the transfer case is still not locked in. There is a ball ramp system after that clutch that needs rotational difference between the front and rear axles to engage the ball ramp. Even if you programmed the electronic clutch to engage with a tuner, there is no way to engage the ball ramp without a rotational difference.

This.

And someone had developed a kit that would make the case work more like we're used to... Actually engaged once the button is pressed, but they had an issue after using 4lo you couldn't get back out of it.

Last I heard they couldn't solve the issue so the kit was no longer available.

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CostaRam · Dec 15, 2017

From your post, I didn't understand your issues with running in sand/mud.

At least my truck screeches, grinds, stop and go, whine, vibrates, bang while limping out of soft sand like a dying sea turtle.
All this noises and brake actions are fine if you accidentially end on sand during a turn but they dont sound very healthy to do that for a mile.
if you look here there is at least one guy who burnt his 44-44 because of using it for too long.

While my Dakota and any other manual or automatic 4x4 car i drove just drive thru, slowly but constantly.
I never got stuck in sand, not even in the desert, but i got almost stuck twice in month with my Ram.

First law of driving (slow) on slippery grounds is to keep your momentum and never stop as you may dig in while taking off again.
As the 44-44 is doing exactly the oposite (continously engaging disengaging the front axle) and this is not very productive ...

Chris

SPEEDSTER00 · Dec 15, 2017

I learned alot in this thread....

Like others, Im happy with the tranny and T-case with some minor complaints. It does what I need it to do. We dont get snow in Houston( except last week) so I use mine on a hunting property. Ive been in pretty nasty mud with no issues. I also dont have hills, so maybe I wont see the 4x4 disengage as notably. My biggest complaint is the roughness of the T-case. In 4-auto you can feel it in the floor and the steering wheel. Its not bad, but certainly not smooth like 2WD is.

I also have a 15 RT charger. All though its an 8-speed, it is more susceptible to temp changes. When its cold, its shifts hard and rough. But that only last for a mile or 2. I wish Dodge would put a sport mode on trucks. I like the faster more locked in shift feel of sport mode on my charger.

Jeepwalker · Dec 15, 2017

chrisbh17 said:
... someone had developed a kit that would make the case work more like we're used to... Actually engaged once the button is pressed, but they had an issue after using 4lo you couldn't get back out of it.

Last I heard they couldn't solve the issue so the kit was no longer available.

Thanks for that post, and cbsmith for your informative breakdown. Very informative.

Are people experiencing fishtailing or sitting spinning the rear wheels for a second or two while trying to pull out from a stop sign into traffic (on snowy roads) before the front wheels will engage? How big of a problem is this kind of thing?

chrisbh17 · Dec 15, 2017

Jeepwalker said:
Thanks for that post, and cbsmith for your informative breakdown. Very informative.

Are people experiencing fishtailing or sitting spinning the rear wheels for a second or two while trying to pull out from a stop sign into traffic (on snowy roads) before the front wheels will engage? How big of a problem is this kind of thing?

Ill have to dig up the quite informative articles along with a long post by someone that actually took one of these xfer cases apart because they were curious (cool!)

But it came down to the fact that the rear wheels would have to spin for no more than 1/2 a turn before the 4WD was "locked in" and started turning the fronts. I think 99% of the time thats a non-issue, but in certain cases (sand, backing up a hill with a trailer, etc) that no more than 1/2 turn will turn into an issue. And its an issue that WOULDN'T be there had they gone with a standard xfer case (like the 44-45)

Another curiosity I have is cost - since that seems to drive almost 100% of the product/design decisions nowadays, is the 44-44 CHEAPER than the 44-45?

S0CAL · Dec 15, 2017

My buildsheet doesn't specify BW or NV246. Anyone know how to differentiate these? Wondering if the 2010 NV246 doesn't have the pseudo lock issue this thread is referencing. I have dropped it into 4L and no issues. I have never used auto, but now that I have LSD and 4:56s, I doubt I would use it anyway. 4L is a different story.

mjpep · Dec 15, 2017

Based on what I've learned here I figured that my steering wheel would not bind if using 4wd-lock since it's not truly locked. I tested it pulling out of my driveway turning hard left onto the main road. In 4wd-Auto there was no binding, but in 4wd-Lock the wheel did bind noticeably.

Overall I've been pleased with the system. 2wd with traction control works for most situation in my life, including light snow. (with good tires).

Machria · Dec 18, 2017

KansasArt said:
Just because a few people complain about something on a forum doesn't constitute a system wise problem.

DING DING DING! We have a winner!! This is a very serious problem with the internet. 1000's or millions of something gets made and sold, all working awesome. Then one loudmouth dude has an issue (sometimes a legit issue but more time than not from something he did or caused!) and jumps up and down in some obscure forum, and the next thing you know "everyone" hears and thinks it's a bad product.

I'm not saying that is what is goin on hear, I don't have a clue about tranny's and/or transfer cases. I've only used them for 40 years on and off on the beach, as far as I know I turn the knob to 4wd, lower tire pressure with my auto air down valves, and off I go. I've never been stuck (knock knock knock on wood!!!) in all that time. But I am still peaved at Ford for making me replace my tranny 3 times!

barr0208 · Dec 18, 2017

have had 3 rams all with the same case no problems here works fine if you want a true 4x4 buy a jeep . they are building for the masses not a few thousand that want the capability. you either buy a base model or a rebel if want a true 4x4 I did not buy mine for that as I don't go off roading with a $50,000 truck I used to own an old jeep j10 to do that with lol.

muddy12 · Dec 18, 2017

Ultimately,as the consumer, you have to do your own research. Had I done mine, I would have gotten a lower trim level, or maybe even a 2500, just to not have the 44-44.

My complaint about the 44-44 isn’t about function, but rather about how the switch is labeled. When I saw “4lock” on the shifter(and told so by the salesman), I mistakenly made the assumption that it functioned like other transfer cases that I am familiar with, and that it would actually be locked when “lock” was selected.

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JPT · Dec 18, 2017

I have said it. I get exactly what everyone is upset with. They didn't have the information when they purchased the truck, as the label is wrong.

I spent 2 snow days now in Long Island NY with my truck, I have to say, even with tires that need to be changed (maybe 6-7 more months left), my truck performed like a champ. One of the best vehicles I have ever owned in snow (including my 2003 ram 1500 and Audi A4).

Ramit355 · Dec 18, 2017

Like many this was very Informative for me as well. I had 4 Rams in last last 16 years....I had no Idea my truck was not locking as I thought. I, like many above do not need a true 4wd for deep mud off road with a 50000 truck but I would expect my poke to have a pig in it as its labeled rather than find out after looking when I get home to find only a Piglet in the Poke!! What if we as buyers said okay here is 50000 for your Truck.....Then after I leave with my truck and they count the $$$ I paid with to find only 3/4 of it was Authentic Money with last 1/4 monopoly $$?

Glad to hear some of you have been in deep snow or mild off road and works like a champ in 4wd. I pull camper (7800 Lbs) and tandem trailer with my tuck to our camp which is off road in a field! Some times the field is wet with soft ground. Never had any problems all is well, I also expect to be fine on road with heavy snow 6 to 8 inches and ice as well.

Next time around which maybe in 2018 when the 19's come out I may just find me a left over 2500 and trade off.....Chrysler needs their **** kicked to pull this kind of false bs on its buyers!

Wilytrash · Dec 20, 2017

Just one question before this is put to bed, I hope. I just bought my 2017 Big Horn with Hemi/ 8 speed two weeks ago and my salesman told me I could only shift into 4 lock on the fly. I'm thinking he has to be wrong. I could see where I couldn't shift into 4 low on the fly but the other two, 4 auto and 4 lock would be fine to shift on the fly. I read through the manual and either I missed that part or they didn't mention it. And after reading all these informative posts in this thread I'm sure I'm right, I just don't want to go back to this salesman because he seemed well informed, but I'm sure he's wrong. If it sounds like a stupid question, maybe it is. I'm just not informed.

How does AUTO 4WD work/what does it do?

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