What Size Trailer/Camper to Buy

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cyclepuck

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First thing is do is go to a camper show or dealer and see what fits your needs as far as floor plan goes. A camper that works for me might not work for you. And from experience i'd try to stay below 7000lbs.

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69GWC

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What you say about brakes would absolutely be true if they had the same brakes. Guess which rear caliper and rotor goes on which model truck...


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Good pictures, show the size difference well.

But the question then is are the 2500s brakes enough bigger to cover the weight difference to actually make them better than the 1500s set up ?
Or do they just compare equally since the 2500s weigh so much more. ?

Its obvious the brakes would handle the heat better.
 

tbaker65

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Hemi, 8sp, 3.21 4x4 with payload of 1470. Airlift 1k, Equalizer 4pt, E tires at 31” tall, and hellwig rear sway bar. TT is 7700 gross and 31’ hitch To bumper. Truck does perfect, stable, and safe. Is a 2500 better? Sure. But the truck does well if you watch your numbers.
You do look like you have some rear sag there, but if it tows well and you're within your limits, etc., good to go...
 

tbaker65

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My question is; What would be the biggest or best camper I could tow with this setup? Makes and models would be appreciated because I know nothing about campers!
You have to start with your numbers (capability limits) of your specific truck and work from there.

Look at your sticker/tables first. You will need to know GVWR, GCWR, Payload, and max trailer weight for your specific vehicle. That will vary depending on your engine, transmission, and gear ratio mostly... it sounds intimidating at first, but once you begin to do some research and understand everything better, it's pretty straight-forward stuff.

I think in general, you're going to need a weight-distribution hitch (WDH) for any camper/trailer over 5k in weight. In general again, your properly loaded camper will have 10-15% of its weight at the tongue (hitch) of the trailer; combine that with the weight of your WDH (which can get pretty heavy), all of this subtracts from your PAYLOAD limit on the truck itself - that weight all goes on the truck...

Here's where most run into problems when towing with the 1500's... The 1500s are capable of towing quite a bit - mine has a rated capability to tow over 10,000 lbs., BUT, by time you figure in the weight of a 10,000 lb trailer at its tongue (10-15%), the WDH, then you have to add in all of the cargo on the truck PLUS the weight of the passengers, etc., and subtract all of that from the PAYLOAD of the truck. The payload of the 1500s are usually somewhere between like 1300-1600 lbs... which is really the limiting factor when it comes to towing... 4 people's weight can add up pretty good, combined with cargo in the truck and then the tongue weight of the trailer and the WDH and you'll find out you can't really tow a 10,000 pound camper with 4 people and cargo...

As others have noted, 6-7k is probably a more realistic number. Figure out your numbers, know your limits/capabilities before you go shopping - go from there.

If you stay within your limits and are properly equipped (WDH, brake controller), you should have a good towing experience - the 1500 is a very capable and good truck (within its limits).

Good luck, happy camping!
 

Ratket

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One more thing. Most national parks where developed years ago, and due to this the spaces are typically a little on the small size. Most either don’t allow or cant accomadate anything over like 29 to 30 feet. So with that being said I would look for something around the 26- 28 ft Mark. Also you are only sleeping in it, so keep that in mind unless you plan on sitting in it all day while you are out seeing the country. Since you are new to this I would suggest maybe rent a travel trailer, go for a weekend somewhere with the wife’s d the friends and make sure you actually enjoy camping before you go buy a trailer. I know I didn’t touch on your original
Question but I figured that had been covered enough with the previous posts.
 

RaftingDave

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FWIW, we purchased a nice pop-up last June and got it out just once with my '07 5.7L TRX Ram w/ 3.92. 2200 dry, 2900 loaded. Just me and my wife. Anti-sway hitch. Except for a few steep grades here in CO, we barely knew it was there. 10' box with slide-outs at either end.

This is our unit:

http://www.forestriverinc.com/product-details.aspx?LineID=394&Image=17020&ModelID=2134#Main

I then purchased a '17 5.7 BH Quad w/ 3.21 in Sept - haven't had the camper out with it yet, but figure it'll be a piece of cake. We also upgraded the tires to BFG KO's (10ply vs 2ply on the stock AT's).

Thing is - the pop-up has two slide-out beds, plus an extra on the floor; we could easily sleep five adults in the thing. Ain't the Hilton, but a smaller camper footprint gives you more options for places to set up. It has shore and battery power, hot water, stereo, LED lights, outdoor grill, inside stove, porta-potty....for such a small unit, it's pretty loaded. I might suggest that if the camping thing is a one-off or likely a seldom experience for you and your friends, you might think about a unit like that, rather than TT. Seems to me, dancing at the margins of your truck's weight and towing limits may not be worth the brain damage if you're not going to do a lot of camping.

Also, some nat'l parks don't allow (or restrict) soft-top campers. Glacier and Yellowstone, I believe. Bears can tear them up.
 
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Rampant

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Good pictures, show the size difference well.

But the question then is are the 2500s brakes enough bigger to cover the weight difference to actually make them better than the 1500s set up ?
Or do they just compare equally since the 2500s weigh so much more. ?

Its obvious the brakes would handle the heat better.

The answer is I don't know. But, I look at it like this... the rear brakes on your truck act like the front brakes on your trailer when towing. Having dual piston vs single offers much more clamping force and dissipates heat better for sure.

I don't know about circumference, but the rotors are much thicker material and the space between the inner and outer is much more as well. If you compare the many other pics of replacement rotors on rockauto you'll see there is quite a difference. IMO when it comes to brakes, bigger is almost always better.
 

Big

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...For me, a fifth wheel would be completely out of the question. For one, they don't make them small enough to be towed safely with your setup.

Scamp makes a 19' 5th wheel with a hitch weight of 400 lbs that sleeps 4 and can be easily towed with a half-ton pickup. But as you point out the Ram 1500's payload capacity will probably be exceeded by 4 adults plus gear for a month before the trailer. (Of course official payload is often exceeded by trucks towing and is generally not a big deal with proper precautions.) However Scamp 19' trailers are low production and not easy to find on the used market, and there is a year wait to order one.

The OP and their friends might be better off renting a small motor home for a month. I've seen many of these in National Parks used by families of four. It might be cramped for four adults but workable.
 

Rampant

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Scamp makes a 19' 5th wheel with a hitch weight of 400 lbs that sleeps 4 and can be easily towed with a half-ton pickup. But as you point out the Ram 1500's payload capacity will probably be exceeded by 4 adults plus gear for a month before the trailer. (Of course official payload is often exceeded by trucks towing and is generally not a big deal with proper precautions.) However Scamp 19' trailers are low production and not easy to find on the used market, and there is a year wait to order one.

The OP and their friends might be better off renting a small motor home for a month. I've seen many of these in National Parks used by families of four. It might be cramped for four adults but workable.
Great points and a different perspective. Thanks!
 

lobo

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I have a 1997 Dodge ram 1500 4x4, ext. cab with a 318ci engine with 3.55 gears and I pull a 2014 33 foot Passport ultra lite and haven't had any problems pulling as of yet. In 1997 I pulled a 31 foot Airstream which was heavier. I also pulled the Airstream with a 1967 Chevy 283 ci , 3/4 ton, 2W, witch I believe had 4:56 gears. No comparison in pulling power. In between I have pulled a 24 foot Rockwood Roo with no weight distribution bars and a 2006 31 foot Antigua with no problems.20170718_133841.jpg
 
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ontariokeener

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I tow this 25 foot box Flagstaff with my 2014 1500 CC with hemi/8 Spd/3.21 gears. It's just over 5,000 lbs dry and 6,000 loaded. Tongue weight is a bit light at 595 lbs loaded (due in part to the rear slide). With the upright front profile, it tows like a brick and won't hold 6th gear over about 62 mph. It's still quite stable with a properly set up WDH and no sway control. This is all I'd want to tow with this setup.

Towing TTs is a bunch of science, well outlined by some here (GVWR, GCWR, TW, GAWR to name a few) and part art (design). The new lightweight trailers with slides are often very tall which doesn't keep them planted in winds or emergency manoevers. Some non-slides are lower to the ground but you give upa lot inside. The longer they are the worse this gets. The Flagstaff/Rockwwood line is nice in that it has torsion suspension rather than leafs and is a 'little' lower to the ground than some.

I'll second the advice of a trip to the CAT scale. It's the best way to find out what your 'real' payload and reserve axle weights are. Weigh once with trailer, and once empty - then adjust your WDH 'cause there's a 90% chance it's wrong. It takes more than you would think to get the weight back on the steer axle.

Finding a TT for 4 adults that stays in a reasonable weight range but is still comfortable will be tough. A hybrid is a good bet but they have their downsides too. Someone will be sleeping at the table in a regular hardside.

My $0.02. Happy camping!

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VernDiesel

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Down & dirty cheat sheet
Check to see that the TT GVWR is less than your trucks max tow rating.
Take the TT dry weight add 1k for an estimated wet weight. Multiply that by 12 percent for estimated TW for picking your WDH spring bars.
example 6k TT x 12 percent = 720 TW so if the smallest spring bar for that hitch is 500 to 800 then you pick that one. Also you can subtract the 720 from your available gvwr.
Taking your TV & wet TT to the truck stop CAT scales to set it up via scale results is the best thing you can do for safety & stability of towing. The WDH comes with instructions.
Its three scales to weigh your steer, drive, TT axles at one time. CAT has a free app with GPS locator and is often $12 & $2 per weigh.
At the scales TV & TT your goals are A replace unloaded steer axle weight approximately 3,250 B make sure your drive axle is at or below your 3,900 pound max rating. You can also verify everything else from your weight slip IE CVW, GVW, & TW percentage. Now you will have a safer more stable tow than most of the 30 year camping veterans.

For the brake guy Mfgs cover that with CVWR. If separately his loaded truck weighs 6k and his wet TT weighs 6k he has a combined 12k. If his CVWR is 14,500 he a 2500 pound safety margin. Max CVWR for the 4th gen 1500 is 15,950. I've come come down long 6 percent grades with a CVW up to 15,800. With proper working brakes TV & TT is no issue. TBC to immediately stop any sway is a bonus. As is a tune provided turbo brake for speed control if you have an Ecodiesel.
 

VernDiesel

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Copied this from another forum. Half ton truck max axles 3,900, max tow 10,150, CVWR 15,650, GVWR 6,900

Unloaded truck
steer 3320
drive 2340
GVW 5660


wet TH 7500 driver 200 & WD
steer 3340
drive 3320
GVW 6660

TH 6700

CVW 13360

Meets specs and will be stable. TW is 800 as seen by TV axles. 800 divided by 7500 = 10.67 percent. Still add passengers & to bed load and it quickly exceeds GVWR although that normally to a point positively affects stability.


wet TH 7500 driver 200 poor WD
steer 2940
drive 4040
GVW 6980

TH 6380

CVW 13360

Slightly over drive axle and GVWR. TW is 1120 as seen by TV axles. Joined rig not as stable despite having more TW. 1120 divided by 7500 = 14.9 percent


From what I've seen you do need to keep 10 percent as a minimum TW percentage. When TW percentage of TH becomes too light it allows for sway. That said its normally more difficult to get down near 10 than it is to be well above it. 10 to 15 percent TW should be good to help resist sway. Flat square box nose may need more TW percentage than round trailer or even just round nose on windy days. Regardless you still need good WD between drive and steer with wet steer weight at least matching unloaded steer weight. Also to a lesser degree more weight on TV helps with stability. Better to be minimally above GVWR than to not have enough TW.
 
OP
OP
bpd138

bpd138

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Once again, thanks for all the replies and the great advice. I think I'm going to buy used Class A RV and call it a day. LOL
 

Wahrsuul

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Its your call of course. That's what the wife wanted to do - a small motorhome. But in the end, it isn't practical for us. Remember that unless you use it a lot, the RV will sit quite a bit, and that's not good for it. You'll also be paying insurance, tags and taxes for something you don't use all that often. Then there's the issue of what to get around in when you get where you're going. Would you rent a car? Get a toad? either way, it's more $. For us, it works better to find a decent sized used TT for now. Maybe when I retire a class A or C will work.
 

clay282

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I didn't see anyone post this but... don't listen to the dealer! Look at the weights and number YOURSELF and then calculate it all, YOURSELF. I'm not saying all dealers are bogus but they'll stretch the weight number for the sale. Maybe our experiences were isolated but, run the numbers yourself.
 

GsRAM

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I didn't see anyone post this but... don't listen to the dealer! Look at the weights and number YOURSELF and then calculate it all, YOURSELF. I'm not saying all dealers are bogus but they'll stretch the weight number for the sale. Maybe our experiences were isolated but, run the numbers yourself.


This is also accurate. Not an isolated incident. You need to know your numbers. A 5th wheel is an absolute no go with your truck, 4 adults and gear in the truck plus pin weight of the 5th wheel and the 5th wheel hitch in the bed.

With your planned trip, with the people you will have in your truck, I'd be looking at campers 25' overall length and less and 5,000 lb gvwr and less. Yes, some on here are pulling 7k plus 30+ foot rigs with half tons. Can you do it? Yes. Should you? I don't think so, for lots of reasons. Be safe, stay within all of your ratings and have a great trip!
 

VernDiesel

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Clay adds good advice here. Most RV dealers will give you a basic WDH hook up that is far better than nothing and gets you down the road safely. But leaves a lot of stability braking and handling on the table so to speak. Most have no scales to go by only basic measurements and worse the TT/TH they set up for you is dry no propane no water no supplies no toys so measurements are based on incomplete weight. In my experience (as a Mfg to dealer transporter and LOL obsessive scales hog) you can set up an appropriately specked half ton to safely and enjoyably tow a 7 or 8k TT/TH but only if you are willing to get an appropriate WDH preferably with built in sway control and set it up / adjust it and TV & TT/TH via scale results.

In our case with a Ram 1500 if you can get loaded steer axle weight to say 3,300 or more and keep drive axle weight down to 4,300 preferably 3,900 (mfg max spec) you can get to something you are not afraid to let your wife drive.
 
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