Blown Head Gasket or Warped Head???

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javajoe1981

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I'm a bit stumped here as I am not a mechanic, I apparently just know enough to get me in trouble but usually get it figured out. I will try to be as brief as possible but hope I can give as many details that someone can have some great advice here.

The radiator on my 2005 RAM 1500 decided to spring a leak in the middle of SF traffic and ended up overheating quite a bit before I could finally get it safely pulled over. (Thank God for AAA towing it for free back to Sacramento!) I ended up swapping out the radiator and thermostat thinking that would be the end of it... unfortunately this was not the case as it still overheated after driving it a block from the house. I first thought maybe coolant was flowing properly so I left the cap off and tried to warm it up to burp the coolant system, when coolant shot out of the radiator like Old Faithful, making me believe there was a compression leak in one of cylinders, this was the only sign I had of a possible blown head gasket. No obvious signs of oil in the coolant or coolant in the oil. I really didn't want to take it in and spend $2k to have it fixed when I knew I could probably do it far cheaper myself. I have never rebuilt an engine but did have some basic understanding and with a few guides here and there (one from this site which was a ton of help and the reason I decided to join this forum) I decided to take it on.

Everything came apart really well, no major issue except a siezed up torx bolt holding the right side timing chain tensioner so a few extra parts I now need to order. Today I got the heads pulled off and was able to do the visual inspection expecting to find the blown out gasket... not quite as obvious as I thought it would have been, the gasket seems to be mostly intact. I'm not sure if maybe the compression was getting through the layers of the gasket but didn't completely blow a hole through all layers??? I tested the thermostat and it opened up fine, so that box is checked.

Could the heads be warped but the gasket still be okay and intact? I would think if they warped I would be seeing the fluids mixing but that doesn't seem to be the case. I will be taking the heads to a shop regardless to have them examined and machined flat if needed.

On a side note - while I have this thing torn apart, is there anything I should seriously consider replacing or upgrading?
 

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javajoe1981

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view of cylinders..
 

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lharrell79

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With all of your symptoms, I would have started with the thermostat. Coolant blowing out of the radiator could easily be a thermostat that isn't opening.
 
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javajoe1981

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Yea, I felt like I probably should've done that too but it was a brand new thermostat, but ended up testing it anyway and it opened fine in the hot water...
 

Egress

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Subscribing to this thread simply because you aren't afraid to tear into your engine and fix the problem! Keep us posted and keep that 3rd Gen Going Strong
 

Andrew09HEMI

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Being that its apart, you'll find out when its at the machine shop for sure. They aren't always blatantly obvious when they blow, but depending on how hot it got and for how long, you could have warped the head only. But Id find that hard to believe the gasket didn't blow. You mentioned no coolant/oil mix anywhere so its a good sign. But, you have it torn apart, mine as well upgrade while you're here as well. While its out, good time to clean heater core for blockages and replace lines. Being that it over heated right away that'd leave me to believe pulling it apart was the right move rather than throwing parts at it and have to pull it inevitably. Obviously Id replace water pump, hoses etc. Good job on tackling yourself, great time to learn some things!
 

lharrell79

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What is the condition of the water pump? Is the impeller still intact, and does the bearing spin freely? The fact that the coolant boiled out of the radiator when you installed the new radiator leads me to believe that something is blocking the flow of coolant.

Having a warped head or blown head gasket shouldn't cause a blockage like this. Pull the water pump and make sure the inlet and outlet aren't blocked, and that the impeller is ok. Most of the water pumps these days have plastic impellers that can easily break apart.
 
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javajoe1981

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What is the condition of the water pump? Is the impeller still intact, and does the bearing spin freely? The fact that the coolant boiled out of the radiator when you installed the new radiator leads me to believe that something is blocking the flow of coolant.

Having a warped head or blown head gasket shouldn't cause a blockage like this. Pull the water pump and make sure the inlet and outlet aren't blocked, and that the impeller is ok. Most of the water pumps these days have plastic impellers that can easily break apart.

I had left the water pump attached to the timing cover when I pulled it off, I will go ahead and pull it and will probably replace it regardless since it's not too expensive and easier to do with already torn apart.

Also, it wasn't a simple boil over, the coolant shot out like a geyser when I revved it up and went all over the garage, leading me to believe it was compression gasses getting into the coolant system.

Being that its apart, you'll find out when its at the machine shop for sure. They aren't always blatantly obvious when they blow, but depending on how hot it got and for how long, you could have warped the head only. But Id find that hard to believe the gasket didn't blow. You mentioned no coolant/oil mix anywhere so its a good sign. But, you have it torn apart, mine as well upgrade while you're here as well. While its out, good time to clean heater core for blockages and replace lines. Being that it over heated right away that'd leave me to believe pulling it apart was the right move rather than throwing parts at it and have to pull it inevitably. Obviously Id replace water pump, hoses etc. Good job on tackling yourself, great time to learn some things!

I am going to take the heads to the shop today so we'll see what they say. thanks for the input on what to change.. I will probably go ahead and do the water pump, radiator and heater hoses, maybe the timing set (chains, guides & tensioners)

Thank you both!
 

lharrell79

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Joe, the cooling system is circulated by the water pump impeller. The impeller is driven by a pulley. When you rev the motor, the impeller also speeds up with the rpms. It would be normal for the coolant to shoot out like a geyser if you're revving the motor.

When you originally installed the new radiator and thermostat, are you sure the thermostat was put in the correct way? Also, after installing the radiator and thermostat, did you verify the thermostat opened and cycled coolant? I'm betting that maybe something didn't get installed correctly or you had air in the system, causing it to overheat the second time.
 
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javajoe1981

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Joe, the cooling system is circulated by the water pump impeller. The impeller is driven by a pulley. When you rev the motor, the impeller also speeds up with the rpms. It would be normal for the coolant to shoot out like a geyser if you're revving the motor.

When you originally installed the new radiator and thermostat, are you sure the thermostat was put in the correct way? Also, after installing the radiator and thermostat, did you verify the thermostat opened and cycled coolant? I'm betting that maybe something didn't get installed correctly or you had air in the system, causing it to overheat the second time.

Yes, it was installed exactly the way the old one was... I understand what your saying and I will check to be sure there's no blockages in the system.
 
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javajoe1981

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I took the heads to the machine shop today and he said they looked pretty good and not likely warped. I was thinking the same thing when I put an edge to them but didn't trust myself, lol. He did say he could tell there was a section where combustion was leaking into the coolant system by the blackened areas on the head. He suggested to have them pressure tested and machined slightly to be safe.. $150 for the pair for peace of mind, I figured why not. Should have them back tomorrow or the next at the latest. Then we shall begin to piece it all back together again!
 
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javajoe1981

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What is the condition of the water pump? Is the impeller still intact, and does the bearing spin freely? The fact that the coolant boiled out of the radiator when you installed the new radiator leads me to believe that something is blocking the flow of coolant.

I went ahead and pulled the water pump off and it looks okay, impeller is intact and everything spins pretty smooth, I will replace anyhow and maybe with one that has a metal impeller.
 

Andrew09HEMI

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I took the heads to the machine shop today and he said they looked pretty good and not likely warped. I was thinking the same thing when I put an edge to them but didn't trust myself, lol. He did say he could tell there was a section where combustion was leaking into the coolant system by the blackened areas on the head. He suggested to have them pressure tested and machined slightly to be safe.. $150 for the pair for peace of mind, I figured why not. Should have them back tomorrow or the next at the latest. Then we shall begin to piece it all back together again!



Sounds like you made the right move then! Looking forward to seeing your progress as you go
 
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javajoe1981

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Got the heads back from the shop today, unfortunately I misunderstood the guy and it was an additional $100 for the pressure test, but it tested out okay and they are nice and clean and machined flat. At least they didn't need to be rebuilt or even worse have to buy new heads.

I was holding off on ordering some additional parts until I got the verdict on the heads so I now I just need to place my order and wait for the parts to get here so I can begin putting it all back together.

I decided I will go ahead and replace the timing set and the radiator fan clutch as well.


Another thought.. should I go ahead and replace the lash adjusters??
 
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javajoe1981

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Thought I would give an update as it has been a while..

Picture attached of engine after being stripped down to just the block. After having to wait a few days here and there for some additional parts, I got it all put back together last night and fired her up!! She ran pretty smooth for the most part, check engine light was on due to a bad MAP sensor and I had a feeling that was going to happen as it looked slightly damaged when I put it back together. Throttle was slow and rough response, but I think that was because the MAP sensor. I did an oil change as the last thing and there was some coolant that drained out before the oil poured out so it was definitely a bad gasket. I will stop on the way home and get a new MAP sensor and replace tonight, get my bumper back on and take it for a test drive!

last picture is all back together, I know it's dirty and i should have cleaned it all better as i rebuilt it.. oh well.
 

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