Brake Controller

[Kwhite]

Im guessing its gonna limit the voltage no matter what, stupid setup, i hope they do something to change it

 

[BossHogg]

I'm still fighting Chrysler to get them to understand the issue. As I walk the path through Chrysler it has become obvious they do not understand how the ITBM works. The dealer service tech didn't know, the service tech could not find any information or diagnostic steps on the ITBM. Chrysler STAR support had them hook a blower motor and because the motor ran they deemed it working (clueless).

Now I have a Chrysler engineering quality manager telling me the ITBM output is related to vehicle speed and not TV braking force and once again my trailer is at fault.

I'm not giving up, if anything, I'm digging in deeper.

 

[PippinAin'tEasy]

Dig in like a tick, Boss.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I547 using Tapatalk

 

[Kwhite]

Im gonna see what happens, unfortunately i wont be towing my camper for another month or so, but i know that im probably not gonna be happy with this new setup they have, my problem is i dont have the time to go to the dealers every week and fight them, but im pretty sure that i will be talking to customer service again

 

[cc rider]

Damn! I'm glad pip pointed out this thread to me. Now that I think about it, there was one time I had to hit the brakes kind of hard at an intersection. I was wondering what the Hell happened cause I know the brakes would lock up at slower speeds on my fiver. I have a 38' toy hauler and I drive like a grandpa when I'm pulling it. That's probably why I haven't noticed. So the trucks brakes are taking a beating then. As I'm posting this I'm at the dealer. I just told them to check it. We all know what they are going to say but I'll post back later. Told them to document it just in case. I'm going to have to play with the controller a little more. I think mine is set to heavy and I pressed the buttons to get to 7.5. Boss, or anybody, let me know how I can help. I'm pretty sure I have the issue too. If there is a # to call or whatever. I'll follow up on this. Btw, my truck was built back in April.

 

[BossHogg]

Damn! I'm glad pip pointed out this thread to me. Now that I think about it, there was one time I had to hit the brakes kind of hard at an intersection. I was wondering what the Hell happened cause I know the brakes would lock up at slower speeds on my fiver. I have a 38' toy hauler and I drive like a grandpa when I'm pulling it. That's probably why I haven't noticed. So the trucks brakes are taking a beating then. As I'm posting this I'm at the dealer. I just told them to check it. We all know what they are going to say but I'll post back later. Told them to document it just in case. I'm going to have to play with the controller a little more. I think mine is set to heavy and I pressed the buttons to get to 7.5. Boss, or anybody, let me know how I can help. I'm pretty sure I have the issue too. If there is a # to call or whatever. I'll follow up on this. Btw, my truck was built back in April.

Mine was built 4/27, but I'm not sure that has anything to do with it, I think it is all 2015 production since the ITBM was redesigned for MY15.

How you can help. I would love to know what you dealer tells you and how they tested it. Since the dealers do not have any documentation on the ITBM they will have to call corporate for help and they were clueless as well.

Here is what STAR told my dealer to do, hook a blower motor to the brake controller and if the motor spins, there is no problem (wow!). They also measured the duty cycle (how I don't know) and recorded it at 85%. Well, when you have something like a DC motor on a PWM line, the noise created by the motor is going to fool any instrument designed to measure duty cycle so their 85% measurement is meaningless and even if it wasn't, 85% is not full output.

I've never been so right and worked so hard to find someone that will look at the findings, and, knowing this is a safety issue. I tell my colleagues at work what is going on (we all work in an automotive engineering department for a Tier 1 designing electronics), they are just mystified.

I want to run down the street screaming while pulling my hair out

 

[cc rider]

Boss, they said its operating at proper voltage and as designed. They are total idiots! Ive been back there 4x for stupid little things but i dont want to go off topic. Just wanted to get it documented. I havent even really played with my settings and im not even sure how the settings work on the uconnect screen. I checked it and it was set to light electric(thought it was on heavy). But, i set the gain to 7 with the buttons. If you adjust the gain , it doesnt matter what the setting (heavy , light etc on uconnect) is on, correct? Cause youre changing it? Sorry i havent read any material on the use. Whats going on with your call to chrysler? Is there a quick way i can test mine. I can hook up and play . Ill even take the rv out for a quick spin. I usually try to go extra slow cause i have a couple motorcycles in my rv. Just got back from camping and dont have any trips planned till possibly next week. Im not spending another dime on this truck. They are expensive enough as it is. Im not going to buy an aftermarket controller. I paid for a factory look and thats what i want! Otherwise , i would have bought a lower trim and just added aftermarket products. Ill let the bank come take it and get an old truck. Im so sick of all the ********* we have to deal with for the money we pay and the quality of products! Its really great to know that are trucks brakes are getting hammered on with heavy weights which is what they are designed for

 

[BossHogg]

What was the voltage they measured? It is designed to provide 12 volts with the brake slider moved all the way and the gain set to 10. Heavy electric or light electric doesn't matter, that has to do with the initial boost level.

The gain is a percent of 12 volts to apply to the electric brakes, for example, with the gain set to 5 or 50%, the maximum voltage output to the electric brakes would be six volts.

The best way to test yours is connect to your trailer, set the gain to 10, select heavy or light electric, connect a volt meter to your trailer brake line. With the engine running (full voltage this way) have someone slide the brake control slider all the way while measuring the voltage. You should see 12 volts if the ITBM is working "as designed" but more likely you will only see 6.86 to 7 volts, hence the issue.

My last email to Chrysler was a challenge to how they thought the ITBM worked (told me it was based on vehicle speed when it is really based on braking effort of the tow vehicle), waiting for their reply if it comes.

I hear your rant, I order a 3500 Cummins with the fifth wheel prep group, rear air leveling, and cargo camera. The perfect setup to heavy haul our fiver, I didn't think they could screw up the brake controller to the point I can't make a hard stop. How can this be?

 

[cc rider]

I never asked the voltage. ill check it myself. But, i will bet the house, its going to give the percentages you said it will. Im sure they are the same part. ill hook up the trailer and check the plug on the bumper. Not sure which tabs to test though. Idk which is what and that link that was posted earlier is not working for me.


Nevermind. Got the link to work today and have the wiring diagram of the 7 way. Must be off at night? Ill post back

What was the voltage they measured? It is designed to provide 12 volts with the brake slider moved all the way and the gain set to 10. Heavy electric or light electric doesn't matter, that has to do with the initial boost level.

The gain is a percent of 12 volts to apply to the electric brakes, for example, with the gain set to 5 or 50%, the maximum voltage output to the electric brakes would be six volts.

The best way to test yours is connect to your trailer, set the gain to 10, select heavy or light electric, connect a volt meter to your trailer brake line. With the engine running (full voltage this way) have someone slide the brake control slider all the way while measuring the voltage. You should see 12 volts if the ITBM is working "as designed" but more likely you will only see 6.86 to 7 volts, hence the issue.

My last email to Chrysler was a challenge to how they thought the ITBM worked (told me it was based on vehicle speed when it is really based on braking effort of the tow vehicle), waiting for their reply if it comes.

I hear your rant, I order a 3500 Cummins with the fifth wheel prep group, rear air leveling, and cargo camera. The perfect setup to heavy haul our fiver, I didn't think they could screw up the brake controller to the point I can't make a hard stop. How can this be?

 

[BossHogg]

Update. Found a few 2015 RAMs at my work, the owners allowed me to characterize their brake controller, all were 1500 and all ITBMs set to a gain of 10, heavy electric all maxed out at 65.5%.

I heard back from the NTSB, they are asking for a great deal of information from me including dealer service steps and results. Looks like the issue may have caught the eye of someone there.

So far, nothing back from Chrysler.

 

[cc rider]

Ok boss, I tested mine today. Not sure if I did it right. Didn't have anyone to help me so I used a clamp to keep the slider at 100% . The previous Chrysler link asked you to put your vin in and the diagram looks different from the ones on my setup. It shows you which tab is what on the covers inside the bed and on the bumper 7ways though.

I'll tell u exactly how I did it. Had truck on , set gain to 10 and clamped the slide all the way to 100%. hooked up fiver to bed . Put multimeter red probe on electric brake tab on bumper . The tab is at the 5 o'clock position . Put the black probe on the ground at 7 o'clock. I'm assuming these were the right ones to test? I got 7.5 volts

 

[Kwhite]

Thats Basically how i did mine too and i think i had around 9.4 volts which is like you said around 75%, its certainly not as it should be!

 

[cc rider]

I had 7.5 volts not 75%. My mistake. I corrected it

 

[BossHogg]

Thats Basically how i did mine too and i think i had around 9.4 volts which is like you said around 75%, its certainly not as it should be!

I had 7.5 volts not 75%. My mistake. I corrected it

Keep in mind you are measuring a pulse width modulated signal, this is an on time off time signal that has a high of 12 volts with a low of 0 volts. The amount of on time equates to the amount of average voltage that is measured by your volt meter. The amount of voltage measured by your meter will be depended on how your volt meter averages.

Regardless of how the meter averages, the higher the duty cycle of the brake signal the more accurate the average volt reading will be.

7.5 volts is a long ways away from 12 volts which is what should be on the brake output. I brought my fiver home from the dealer last night, I watch the voltage reading on the Prodigy brake controller, on a hard stop, my fiver needs 10.5 volts to brake aggressively, a voltage the ITBM can't do

 

[Riccochet]

Glad I found this thread. I've been using a Tekonsha Voyager to tow my 7k# 4wheel brake TT. When it's setup correctly it works great, but the level adjustment is finicky. Sometimes I can feel the trailer pushing my TV, other times it feels like the trailer is dragging me to a stop under similar braking conditions. I was about the pull the trigger on the ITBM. Not now. Hell no. I'll stick with the devil I know, for now. lol

 

[BossHogg]

Glad I found this thread. I've been using a Tekonsha Voyager to tow my 7k# 4wheel brake TT. When it's setup correctly it works great, but the level adjustment is finicky. Sometimes I can feel the trailer pushing my TV, other times it feels like the trailer is dragging me to a stop under similar braking conditions. I was about the pull the trigger on the ITBM. Not now. Hell no. I'll stick with the devil I know, for now. lol

This issue is on the 2015 RAMs (ITBM redesign) and likely on the 2016s. I have a 2013 with the ITBM and it works perfectly so don't be afraid to use it, just be sure you order a MY13 ITBM.

 

[cc rider]

Ok guys. retested mine with a "better" multimeter. First one was a cheap harbor freight one. Got 7.35volts. But, dont see much of a difference. I also Set the manual slider to 50% and tested and got 3.5 volts. Bringing my truck in to dealer next week so ill follow up. Boss, i assume these cant be replaced with an older mopar unit (that works correctly) to keep the factory look. I dont know if they are diffferent design or not. Lets keep at it. I dont want to die towing!

 

[BossHogg]

Ok guys. retested mine with a "better" multimeter. First one was a cheap harbor freight one. Got 7.35volts. But, dont see much of a difference. I also Set the manual slider to 50% and tested and got 3.5 volts. Bringing my truck in to dealer next week so ill follow up. Boss, i assume these cant be replaced with an older mopar unit (that works correctly) to keep the factory look. I dont know if they are diffferent design or not. Lets keep at it. I dont want to die towing!

I don't know for sure if it is possible to revert to a MY13 ITBM. I know the way the ITBM sees the state of the brake pedal signal is different. Then there are the issue of CAN messages and signal changes that would be almost impossible for us to figure out unless we had someone on the inside that could provide that data.

As far as the dealer, likely they will have no choice but to tell you it is working as designed but they will not be able to provide you with any documentation on the functionality of, or the diagnostic steps of the ITBM that can support their claim. They may call Chrysler STAR for help, they don't have a clue either so don't be afraid to ask them question of how they came to the conclusion it is working as designed. I'm looking forward to see what they tell you. Good luck.

 

[Kwhite]

It would be nice to just put in an ITBM from an earlier year, my previous truck was a 14 Ram 1500 and it worked perfectly, I also submitted a compliant to NHTSA, hopefully i will hear something back

 

[cc rider]

I'll do the same with nhtsa. Just told someone that I work with with about this. They just bought a 15 and didn't know.

It would be nice to just put in an ITBM from an earlier year, my previous truck was a 14 Ram 1500 and it worked perfectly, I also submitted a compliant to NHTSA, hopefully i will hear something back