F-150 or Ram for TT?

[VernDiesel]

A re post
Looks like we are going to get the 2018 F150 instead of the ram. Both are V8. Ford has 1800 Lbs payload, ram is 1500 lbs. both pull right around 9200 Lbs. The trailer we want has dry weight of 6500 and TW of 701. Will this work out ok? I have been asking a lot of questions and researching a lot as well. I just want to get it right.


Boggs, Typically people add almost 1000 pounds from dry weight to camp ready. That puts your TT at almost 7500. With WD & WDH adjusted according to scales you should get to a TW of about 12 percent or 900 pounds. Remember all 1/2 ton Mfgs recommend a WDH for towing 5,000 pounds or greater. Best non special order regular axle set ups that you typically find at dealerships have Fords towing payload or GVWR at 7,000 and Ram's at 6,950 usually leaving 5 to 600 pounds for people & stuff. Specked with the appropriate motor & gear any Mfgs 1/2 ton will have enough power to tow a 7,500 pound TT and with proper weight distribution will handle it safely & with stability.

It's always more about suspension capability than power with respects to 1/2 tons. For comparison below is a small chart ranked by combined axle weight rating.

Mfg-GVWR-steer-drive-combind
Toyota 7,200-4,000-4,150-8,150
GM. 7,200-3,950-3,950-7,900
Ram. 6,950-3,900-3,900-7,800
Ford. 7,000-3,600-3,800-7,400
Nissan 7,100-3,500-3,800-7,300

Naturally you still have other factors such as fuel economy and braking power which is reflected in the CVWR. Toyota looks best here with 8,150 but has the worst fuel economy and some owners complain about their brakes when trailering mountain grades. Point is there is lots to consider when picking a truck especially if it's not a dedicated TV but a multipurpose vehicle.

Main thing for safety and stability when towing with your family is to scale. The DW & kids don't need to come just a camp ready ish TT. To set up your load you will want your unloaded TV front axle weight, best is to get it from the scale as job 1 will be to replace that weight when loaded with wet TT.

You will need your axle ratings from your door sticker which may differ from the chart. As job 2 will be making sure your WDH transfers enough weight off your drive axle back to the steer & TT axles that you don't exceed your drive axle weight rating.

Your scale slips will also show your CVW so you can make sure your not exceeding CVWR. Your slip will also show your TV weight so you can verify that your not over GVWR or towing payload. Last you can calculate your actual or seen TW to see that your not exceeding your receiver weight rating and to verify that you are in the 10 to 15 percent tongue weight range for maximum stability. Happy camping.

PS I picked Ram 1500 Economy diesel mostly because of fuel / towing economy which it averages 30 unloaded & 14.0 with a double axle box TT at 65 mph. Diesel longevity, which it has 370,000 miles now. And braking or speed control for when the TT is pushing you down a mountain grade. With tune supplied turbo brake and factory supplied trailer brake controller it puts me in a position to never have to touch the truck foot brake to control speed towing down a mountain grade. This provides a lot of safety and confidence. In fact my original brakes went 293,000. The 100k warranty didn't hurt either.

 

[johndoe123123]

This is a tough decision. I will say that in the correct configuration, the RAM will do what you want. However, while I wholeheartedly believe the ram is a better overall vehicle, there were several design decisions that were made which favored the 95% target market of a half ton pickup truck: Unloaded, with occasional towing duty 5,000 pounds or less.

The F150 is unique in the availability of a heavy duty towing package. Furthermore, the design choices they've made, both in weight and legacy suspension technology, have a slight edge during a towing and overloaded configuration, especially with a typical boxy travel trailer. If I was purchasing a vehicle specifically for the primary purpose of towing a 7,500 + # travel trailer load, it would probably be the F150 if I was going 1/2 ton.

 

[VernDiesel]

If I were purchasing a dedicated TV for a 7,500 TT I would also be considering an HD. But as you know many of us have to buy a multi use truck that is also used to commute etc. which is what this guy was looking for.

Ford is not unique. Just like the special order HD rear / tow pkg available at Ford you can order a Chevy with this type pkg. In fact Ram has offered this in the past.

But this guy like the vast majority was just looking to buy off a lot as opposed to having one built for him.

The slight ability to better handle an overload of weight on the truck is quick easy & cheap to overcome with a set of air bags. The payload sticker should not be the focus for ability as the towing payload aka GVWR may only be a 50 pound difference and axle wise the Ram is rated to carry 400 pounds more than the Ford.

 

[xracer]

Sorry, I have to laugh when I see posts like this. We trailer an Exiss 306 SS 3 horse gooseneck all over the state of Michigan and to Ohio for a few races.

Go to the horse shows and see which 1/2 tons are hauling the heavy loads. It isn't Fords and Chevy's. I did not think my RAM would handle a gooseneck, but was totally wrong. The Ford and Chevy (except for the 2017 6.2L) can't compare to the 5.7 Hemi.

Also, the dirty little secret about published payloads etc. is the standard used to classify the truck. If the specs were correct, I would be seeing at least one Ford and Chevy 1/2 ton hauling a 8000# GN; they're virtually nonexistent.

It is a matter of power when hauling big trailers.

 

[mtofell]

It is a matter of power when hauling big trailers.

Ehhh.... not really. Any modern 1/2 ton has more than enough power. It's payload, suspension, brakes, frame, tires and a whole bunch of other stuff that really make for a good experience.

While the proposed trailer can likely be hauled and stay within specs of a modern, capable 1/2 ton, why run so close to the line? Get an HD and don't worry about anything. The majority of the guys on here hauling with HD trucks started with a 1/2 ton would never consider going back. I can understand trying to make a setup work with a truck you already have. If you're shopping for a truck do it right.

Whenever I see people quoting max tow ratings (like 9200#) I cringe. Those numbers are put out for the sole purpose of selling trucks. In reality, that number will NEVER matter to you. Unless, you travel with nothing in your truck. No passengers, nothing in the bed of the truck, no tools.... nothing. Every ounce you put in the truck comes right off that number.

OP, at least look at some HD trucks and really digest all the numbers and what they mean. A 1/2 ton well may work for you but I'd hate to see you in the line of posters here every weekend that can't understand why his headlights are pointing at the sky and his truck is overloaded.

 

[VernDiesel]

The top of my post said re-post ie of Boggs question of which trucks he was considering and why. And my reply which basically said if he is looking at 1/2 tons due to overall use of truck not being a dedicated TV of how to better compare the two trucks for towing the TT. Also what to look for and how to set them up to tow that with stability & safely for his family's sake.

My reply was to focus him on what he needs to look at so that he does not end up with headlights pointing to the sky & being a road hazard. So many people go about assessing what they can tow & comparing the trucks by looking at the payload sticker suspensionwise. Doing so leaves a lot to be desired. It's better to look at axle ratings & GVWR which is towing payload. Also better assessing what he was going to tow as the dry weight will usually turn into a wet weight of the dry weight plus a 1,000 pounds and throw the dry tongue weight out and use a better estimate of the actual TW of 12.5 percent of the wet TT weight. This is assuming use of a WDH and setting it up according to what you can get via scale results.

On the GN & 5er thing. Not sure if it's because of owning one of them that I pay more attention to them but I have seen more 1/2 ton Ram's towing both GN stock & horse trailers and more 5ers. I don't think that has as much to do with suspension or power but rather maybe who tends to buy them. Also maybe that Ram has been the only one with a half ton diesel which is more apt to be used for frequent towing than a gasser. As mentioned all 5 Mfgs have an optional power plant & gearing that is capable of pulling 7,500 or 8k sufficiently.

 

[[email protected]]

A re post
Looks like we are going to get the 2018 F150 instead of the ram. Both are V8. Ford has 1800 Lbs payload, ram is 1500 lbs. both pull right around 9200 Lbs. The trailer we want has dry weight of 6500 and TW of 701. Will this work out ok? I have been asking a lot of questions and researching a lot as well. I just want to get it right.


Boggs, Typically people add almost 1000 pounds from dry weight to camp ready. That puts your TT at almost 7500. With WD & WDH adjusted according to scales you should get to a TW of about 12 percent or 900 pounds. Remember all 1/2 ton Mfgs recommend a WDH for towing 5,000 pounds or greater. Best non special order regular axle set ups that you typically find at dealerships have Fords towing payload or GVWR at 7,000 and Ram's at 6,950 usually leaving 5 to 600 pounds for people & stuff. Specked with the appropriate motor & gear any Mfgs 1/2 ton will have enough power to tow a 7,500 pound TT and with proper weight distribution will handle it safely & with stability.

It's always more about suspension capability than power with respects to 1/2 tons. For comparison below is a small chart ranked by combined axle weight rating.

Mfg-GVWR-steer-drive-combind
Toyota 7,200-4,000-4,150-8,150
GM. 7,200-3,950-3,950-7,900
Ram. 6,950-3,900-3,900-7,800
Ford. 7,000-3,600-3,800-7,400
Nissan 7,100-3,500-3,800-7,300

Naturally you still have other factors such as fuel economy and braking power which is reflected in the CVWR. Toyota looks best here with 8,150 but has the worst fuel economy and some owners complain about their brakes when trailering mountain grades. Point is there is lots to consider when picking a truck especially if it's not a dedicated TV but a multipurpose vehicle.

Main thing for safety and stability when towing with your family is to scale. The DW & kids don't need to come just a camp ready ish TT. To set up your load you will want your unloaded TV front axle weight, best is to get it from the scale as job 1 will be to replace that weight when loaded with wet TT.

You will need your axle ratings from your door sticker which may differ from the chart. As job 2 will be making sure your WDH transfers enough weight off your drive axle back to the steer & TT axles that you don't exceed your drive axle weight rating.

Your scale slips will also show your CVW so you can make sure your not exceeding CVWR. Your slip will also show your TV weight so you can verify that your not over GVWR or towing payload. Last you can calculate your actual or seen TW to see that your not exceeding your receiver weight rating and to verify that you are in the 10 to 15 percent tongue weight range for maximum stability. Happy camping.

PS I picked Ram 1500 Economy diesel mostly because of fuel / towing economy which it averages 30 unloaded & 14.0 with a double axle box TT at 65 mph. Diesel longevity, which it has 370,000 miles now. And braking or speed control for when the TT is pushing you down a mountain grade. With tune supplied turbo brake and factory supplied trailer brake controller it puts me in a position to never have to touch the truck foot brake to control speed towing down a mountain grade. This provides a lot of safety and confidence. In fact my original brakes went 293,000. The 100k warranty didn't hurt either.

I had a Dodge Ram 1500 quad cab. Bought a travel trailer rated at 6800 lbs. Started with weight distribution hitch. Set up at dealer, truck and camper bounced uncontrollably above 60 mph. Added air bags on rear of truck. Didn't help. Was told truck suspension just not made for travel trailer. Had 5.7 hemi, engine had plenty of power. Finally traded to 3/4 ton. Made all the difference.

 

[nplenzick]

I had a Dodge Ram 1500 quad cab. Bought a travel trailer rated at 6800 lbs. Started with weight distribution hitch. Set up at dealer, truck and camper bounced uncontrollably above 60 mph. Added air bags on rear of truck. Didn't help. Was told truck suspension just not made for travel trailer. Had 5.7 hemi, engine had plenty of power. Finally traded to 3/4 ton. Made all the difference.

Sounds to me you didn't have enough tongue weight. I went from a 2500 Silverodo to a 1500 17 Ram. Haven't towed real far yet but when I did it performed real well although It could use air shocks or springs to make it perfect. 6500 lb Livin Lite toy hauler, with 750lbs of tongue weight. That Chevy I had did a ok job but the fuel mileage with the 6.0 gas with 4:10 rear was horrible to say the least. 4mpg the worst with 8 mpg the best towing. Non towing 14 highway 9 around town. The hemi really out performs 6.0 Chevy. As for the ford, the 5 liter V8 is the only one I would consider.

 

[Dusty]

There's a big difference to someone that needs a capable truck for towing occasionally, and one that tows quite regularly. I occasionally tow a tractor and trailer with a combined weight of 9100 lbs, plus. I have a 2014 Ram Big Horn 1500 Quad Cab, 5.7 Hemi, two-wheel drive, 20 inch tires, 8-speed transmission with the 3.92 LSD. The tow rating is 10,450 lbs. This truck handles 9100 lbs. exceptionally well. Without the 3.92 axle ratio I believe I'd be limited to 7700 lbs. Since this is my only vehicle I was concerned about fuel consumption since I only tow less than 1% of the time. For that reason I wouldn't consider a 3/4 ton truck, although if you are towing near the margins quite a bit a heavier truck probably makes more sense. I'm not sure about the current GM trucks, but the Rams use the SAE criteria for determining towing, load, etc. I'm not sure if Ford has done that yet, but in the past as soon as someone else advertises a higher rating, Ford magically changes theirs. This gives me the impression that for Ford the spec's may be arbitrary. While the F-150 is a nice truck, I'd talk to a few owners regarding fuel economy and power when towing. Friends with the 3.5 EcoBoost seem to complain about both issues under towing conditions.

Regards,
Dusty

 

[smiley]

Vern I think I got confused because of the repost. Do you have that many miles on your Eco? I can’t tell what people drive anymore with Tapatalk.

 

[Pttrader]

Interesting thread... I currently have a TT with a 7560 lb dry rating. It weighs 8400 loaded up and is 35ft long bumper to hitch. I towed it originally with a 2013 Ram 1500 5.7 3.92 gears 4WD. I used a 1400lb Equalizer hitch for sway. The Ram would get around 10mpg at 60 to 62mph. Above that the mileage would drop... My payload was 1485#s if memory serves me correct. I had the cheap red air bags to level the truck. I noticed some sway on steep hills and found by adding weight to the hitch it went away. What I did not like is that I needed about 1200#s on the hitch to eliminate sway which violated my payload weight slightly. I had put the KO2s to help eliminate sway because the Wranglers have a very soft sidewall. I could put my hand on the side of the box near the tail gate and easily shake the truck and see the sidewalls flex on the Wranglers. The KO2s fixed that, but it was the weight on the hitch that fixed the sway. They say you want about 10 to 15% of your weight on the hitch minimum.
I had some stretches of the interstate that would bounce the truck so bad you could not put your back on the seat. After having the front struts start leaking I went to a AirSafe hitch and then I was able to ride with my back on the seat again on those bad stretches and not beat up the truck so much. Not sure why a newer concrete road would be laid down like that, or the semis had already ruined it???
Anyway, due to wife's nagging about sway I decided to use that as an excuse to step up to a 3/4 ton Ram with the 6.4. I located one slightly used in a 4 door with 5th wheel prep that was priced to sell. The only down side was the 3:73 gears which I figured when I moved up to the 5th wheel I would get lower gears since I saved a couple of thousand on the purchase price. For me, it was always the gas motor since my truck takes me to work which is only a couple of miles away and I've heard that constant short trips are bad for the diesels.
Not sure what 2018 Ford truck you are looking at, but they can be bought in a V8 or Ego Boost V6 and with the optional heavy duty axle giving them a payload rating of 3270#s and a towing capacity of 13,200#s. I went to Fords website to verify the numbers, impressive, but it never hurts to have more truck if the TT gets stuck in crosswinds. My buddy was complaining of sway with the gusty winds one day (He drives a 1/2 ton Chevy) and I did not even notice the winds in my 7200# truck (scale weight with camping supplies) until we made a bathroom stop on our 200 mile trip.
What I miss is my Ram sport truck which would carve up the road, ride like a Lincoln, or Caddy and do a 15 sec quarter stock. They have decent sound proofing to keep the noise out too!
I am a stubborn Dodge man and will keep what I have, but hopefully I gave you some prospective from my experiences.

 

[mtofell]

I noticed some sway on steep hills and found by adding weight to the hitch it went away. What I did not like is that I needed about 1200#s on the hitch to eliminate sway which violated my payload weight slightly.

Great post and this is the classic conundrum. Tongue weight reduces/eliminates sway but if you're close on payload it becomes impossible to get a good setup. Add this to the reasons why using a truck near its limits is no fun.... as you found out.

 

[GsRAM]

Interesting thread... I currently have a TT with a 7560 lb dry rating. It weighs 8400 loaded up and is 35ft long bumper to hitch. I towed it originally with a 2013 Ram 1500 5.7 3.92 gears 4WD. I used a 1400lb Equalizer hitch for sway. The Ram would get around 10mpg at 60 to 62mph. Above that the mileage would drop... My payload was 1485#s if memory serves me correct. I had the cheap red air bags to level the truck. I noticed some sway on steep hills and found by adding weight to the hitch it went away. What I did not like is that I needed about 1200#s on the hitch to eliminate sway which violated my payload weight slightly. I had put the KO2s to help eliminate sway because the Wranglers have a very soft sidewall. I could put my hand on the side of the box near the tail gate and easily shake the truck and see the sidewalls flex on the Wranglers. The KO2s fixed that, but it was the weight on the hitch that fixed the sway. They say you want about 10 to 15% of your weight on the hitch minimum.
I had some stretches of the interstate that would bounce the truck so bad you could not put your back on the seat. After having the front struts start leaking I went to a AirSafe hitch and then I was able to ride with my back on the seat again on those bad stretches and not beat up the truck so much. Not sure why a newer concrete road would be laid down like that, or the semis had already ruined it???
Anyway, due to wife's nagging about sway I decided to use that as an excuse to step up to a 3/4 ton Ram with the 6.4. I located one slightly used in a 4 door with 5th wheel prep that was priced to sell. The only down side was the 3:73 gears which I figured when I moved up to the 5th wheel I would get lower gears since I saved a couple of thousand on the purchase price. For me, it was always the gas motor since my truck takes me to work which is only a couple of miles away and I've heard that constant short trips are bad for the diesels.
Not sure what 2018 Ford truck you are looking at, but they can be bought in a V8 or Ego Boost V6 and with the optional heavy duty axle giving them a payload rating of 3270#s and a towing capacity of 13,200#s. I went to Fords website to verify the numbers, impressive, but it never hurts to have more truck if the TT gets stuck in crosswinds. My buddy was complaining of sway with the gusty winds one day (He drives a 1/2 ton Chevy) and I did not even notice the winds in my 7200# truck (scale weight with camping supplies) until we made a bathroom stop on our 200 mile trip.
What I miss is my Ram sport truck which would carve up the road, ride like a Lincoln, or Caddy and do a 15 sec quarter stock. They have decent sound proofing to keep the noise out too!
I am a stubborn Dodge man and will keep what I have, but hopefully I gave you some prospective from my experiences.

There is a ton of good info and experience shared in this thread. Anyome looking to tow north of 7k with a half ton should read this. Yes, with modifications you can tow heavy with a half ton and ive done it in the past, but its no fun (my experience). Ptt ended stepping up to a 3/4 ton as i did and its the best decision i could have made. Just my .02

 

[VernDiesel]

Ci3ranger, yeah so now you know had you set that hitch and load up via actual cat scale results instead of relying on an RV dealers non scaled estimate setting that your 1500 could have been as stable with that load as your HD. Frustrating if one has spent big to make a change in trucks that they did not want to or have to. Unfortunately the guy you asked advice from with respects to the half ton suspension really did not understand it any better than you. It's part of why I share this info for others. It's amazing how many people don't understand and utilize the weight distribution part of a WDH. Others simply don't get the appropriate WD bars for their hitch.

Smiley, Yes I transport Airstreams, box TTs & boats commercially for the Mfgs with the Ecodiesel. 371,000 mostly from OH to all over the west coast and back.

PT Trader, Yea standard load rated tires that generally come on 1500s leave a lot to be desired with respects to sway & punctures under heavy load. Any E load tires even all season highway will help minimize sway when your truck axles start seeing over 7K combined. The in coil bags work to a point as does the air-safe hitch. But you get better overall suspension dampening, NVH, & load control by using axle to frame bags IMO. I'm not looking at the Ford. I'm keeping the lil Econo diesel. The point was to share about load distribution & set up and that knowing this helps better pick a capable for the job truck.

mtofell, For the guy who doesn't want an HD the best answer to the conundrum you speak of is having that tongue weight but having it properly distributed between steer drive & TT axles instead of overloading the drive axle and lifting the steer axles. And that this is best done utilizing a WDH set by scale results.

 

[HvyDuty]

I bought our 2017 V6 1500 for my wife not intending to use it to tow our travel trailer (we do occasionally). It came with the 3.55 towing gear. We used to pull this trailer with a 2015 1500 5.7L 3.21 gear 4x2, but was at or slightly over the door sticker payload (1490). I was not happy with the way it handled, power was not an issue.

Its our first camper and we want a 5th wheel eventually, so I traded the 2015 for my 2016 2500 6.4L 4x4. Wife missed the cadillac ride of the 1500 so I traded her Wrangler Unlimited for the V6 Ram.

Of course, when I pull it with the 2500 its no sweat, but I gotta say this little 3.6L with same chassis as the 5.7L seems to handle it better! It lives in 5th gear mostly while towing and I won't win any races, but its very comfortable towing along a 65 mph at around 3k RPM. 440 lbs of payload to spare.

 

[VernDiesel]

Props for the story and the pics. Especially the Cat scale pic and the white door jam axle & towing payload (GVWR) pic!

If you know what is your unloaded axle weights? And what hitch do you use?

 

[HvyDuty]

Props for the story and the pics. Especially the Cat scale pic and the white door jam axle & towing payload (GVWR) pic!

If you know what is your unloaded axle weights? And what hitch do you use?

Thanks! I wish we had more time to get the other two weights (truck by itself and trailer hooked up with no WD engaged) but it was Christmas.

I have two WD hitches, I use an Equalizer 4pt 1k (craigslist $120 score).

For the 2500 I use a fastway e2 1k round bar (and used it when I had the 2015 5.7 1500). This may explain why it tows so much better than the Hemi did. I suspect that I am over 1k on the tongue as the bars are very slightly bowed near the hitch head.

 

[Ramit355]

If I were purchasing a dedicated TV for a 7,500 TT I would also be considering an HD. But as you know many of us have to buy a multi use truck that is also used to commute etc. which is what this guy was looking for.

Ford is not unique. Just like the special order HD rear / tow pkg available at Ford you can order a Chevy with this type pkg. In fact Ram has offered this in the past.

But this guy like the vast majority was just looking to buy off a lot as opposed to having one built for him.

The slight ability to better handle an overload of weight on the truck is quick easy & cheap to overcome with a set of air bags. The payload sticker should not be the focus for ability as the towing payload aka GVWR may only be a 50 pound difference and axle wise the Ram is rated to carry 400 pounds more than the Ford.

My ram was ordered with four corner air suspension in 2014. I had 2011 Ram with out 4 corner in 2011 exact same trucks both Laramie's the 4 corner makes a hell off a difference in towing my travel trailer not to say the 2011 did not ,but the 14 with it is much better.Not offered in 2014 from Ford or Chevy. But I like Ford and Chevy trucks too not to take away from the others. In the Camp grounds you see more Rams in half ton pulling trailers than Chevy or Ford half tons. I very rarely ever see Tundras pulling in Camp grounds.

 

[HvyDuty]

Here's a pic of my Equalizer setup. Hitch ball is about even with the 2" receiver height. Note, I have Monroe Load Adjusting rear shocks (1k support) installed. They do not affect the ride and reduce squat considerably. Ride under load is as good as empty.

Most of the 1/2 tons I see in the RV parks have the drop shank flipped and ball at least 3 inches above the receiver.

I think I may need to upgrade to a 1200 Equalizer as I don't like the slight bow in the bars near the head. Bars are parallel with the trailer tongue and making full contact with the brackets.