Heard of a bad oil code? Stealership story.

[czardog]

I still stand by what I wrote given the info up to that point.
it would not take a Rocket Surgeon's degree to figure out the first dealership would pop a gasket and give push back on refunding the diagnostic fee when you took it to another dealership. To them, you added a third party to the equation.

I have every right to add a third party to the equation, especially if there's reason to distrust them after witnessing their previous behaviour.

Perhaps I should have brought back the car to them again? then they can tell me all about how i have a "bad gas" light on and now i'm on the hook for some more diagnostic fees?

 

[DIRTRIDER]

WOW! Heck of a post. I was a service writer & service manager in both Ford and Dodge dealerships for 20 years. The goal of the service dept is repeat customer business for future financial success. It is so much easier to give the customer the benefit of doubt and fix a vehicle under warranty when it applies, why stress yourself, your employees and **** off a customer by doing battle over something that is very easily covered under warranty.

 

[Rustycowl69]

And there is a bad oil code...P1521 per your reciept........not saying it was set, but it does exist

Can you be more specific? An excerpt from a specific Service Manual would be appreciated. There also must be an appropriate explanation, more than the cryptic " bad oil" designation, so a refetenced excerpt on that subject would be instructive to see.

 

[MANual_puller]

Can you be more specific? An excerpt from a specific Service Manual would be appreciated. There also must be an appropriate explanation, more than the cryptic " bad oil" designation, so a refetenced excerpt on that subject would be instructive to see.

P1521 is a code for wrong viscosity oil. Not "bad oil" but wrong oil. The PCM uses several sensors to determine if the correct viscosity oil was used. Oil psi, temp, RPM are all factors(probably others). Any of those sensors give fits and it will set the P1521 code along with whichever sensor is actually causing the problem, in this case the oil pressure sensor. The MDS system is pretty sensitive to viscosity which is why this parameter is monitored.

Now, that being said, oil viscosity can change with time. The dealer started diagnosing with the right steps, change the oil first wait for code(s) to come back. They had to charge for that work in the event that the OP's mechanic inadvertently caused the problem. It can happen, I don't care how "good" a mechanic is, they're human too. OP was going to get reimbursed if OP took it back because OP's mechanic wasn't at fault since the code came back and replacing the sensor fixed the problem. By taking it to another dealer mid-diagnostic Dewildt now thinks OP is hiding something from them. Of course they cannot reimburse for the oil change now since the service was actually performed but they didn't get to close the file on the warranty claim so they won't get reimbursed from FCA.

This is 100% a miscommunication misunderstanding between someone that isn't mechanically savvy(OP) and someone that's just savvy enough to be dangerous(service manager).

Congratulations OP, you've reached the 3rd grade level. You can plug in a doohicky and read what it says Work on understanding what those codes actually mean and how a diagnostic plan works. A "dealer diagnostic scan" is only part of the diagnostics. In this case changing the oil was a test. Live and learn.

 

[TRCM]

Can you be more specific? An excerpt from a specific Service Manual would be appreciated. There also must be an appropriate explanation, more than the cryptic " bad oil" designation, so a refetenced excerpt on that subject would be instructive to see.

Google it...that's all I did.

Then I saw it on the receipts that got posted.

It's not a 'bad oil' code, but it is incorrect engine oil type...not incorrect oil viscosity (altho that may be what it means), or 'bad oil' as the dealer called it.

..........

This is 100% a miscommunication misunderstanding between someone that isn't mechanically savvy(OP) and someone that's just savvy enough to be dangerous(service manager).

Congratulations OP, you've reached the 3rd grade level. You can plug in a doohicky and read what it says Work on understanding what those codes actually mean and how a diagnostic plan works. A "dealer diagnostic scan" is only part of the diagnostics. In this case changing the oil was a test. Live and learn.

WOW...pretty harsh with some major assumptions on your part.

The OP did have a mechanic check too, and they said the same thing.....so not sure how you can judge him as 'not savvy'.....or insult him by claiming he just made it to 3rd grade level.



.

 

[MANual_puller]

WOW...pretty harsh with some major assumptions on your part.

The OP did have a mechanic check too, and they said the same thing.....so not sure how you can judge him as 'not savvy'.....or insult him by claiming he just made it to 3rd grade level.

Not really. He said the mechanic just read the codes too. They clearly didn't understand where the P1521 code was coming from or else they would have started with the oil. Oil viscosity will affect pressure. Had to start by eliminating one of the 2 and accidentally using the wrong oil(or oil changing viscosity by breaking down) has the potential to damage the engine, a bad sensor, not so much. His mechanic's suggestion to change the sensor first is absolutely the wrong answer to those codes.

 

[Rustycowl69]

Google it...that's all I did.

Then I saw it on the receipts that got posted.

It's not a 'bad oil' code, but it is incorrect engine oil type...not incorrect oil viscosity (altho that may be what it means), or 'bad oil'



.

I did Google it, like you suggested, and you appear to be correct. But, I did see that it can set the code, P1521, under high ambient heat conditions, and there is a TSB regarding that. So it is a bit of an ambiguous DTC, which can result from several, at least, causes. It appears the service techs chose to interpret, rightly or wrongly(we have no way of KNOWING ), since(the tech said) the oil was clean, that the oil change was the culprit. I also read where some DTC''s can only be read by a Starscan reader, and may not trigger the dash MIL light .

I see a lot of miscommunication (on both sides)going on here. As one who does his own oil changes, I am flabbergasted at the $170 oil change price. So I'm still leaning toward the OP, and I have to question the diagnosis cost. I think the right thing to do by the customer, would be to split this bill down the middle, but I think enough bad blood has been shed, that that's not going to happen.

 

[powderbrad]

There is really a sensor to determine viscosity?? Seems like that would be a $$$$ sensor to replace. Seemingly easy to replace though in oil pan?? Unless they measure based on power loss somehow which I don't understand. Tied into the oil change meter perhaps?

Cool. Does it measure turbidity or whatever the proper description is? Or thinness? Which would throw codes on old broken down oil too right?

I guess when wanting warranty an oil change for those using thicker oils is necessary before a trip (if that particular code is being thrown)

Is that sensor for real??? I'm tending not to believe it

 

[czardog]

Not really. He said the mechanic just read the codes too. They clearly didn't understand where the P1521 code was coming from or else they would have started with the oil. Oil viscosity will affect pressure. Had to start by eliminating one of the 2 and accidentally using the wrong oil(or oil changing viscosity by breaking down) has the potential to damage the engine, a bad sensor, not so much. His mechanic's suggestion to change the sensor first is absolutely the wrong answer to those codes.

Let me clarify. Myself and my mechanic read the CODE not CODES. No "s".

One single code popped up, under active and stored: P0520 - Engine Oil Pressure Sensor Circuit

When dealer is telling me a code popped up that i didn't see myself, and then clears it from memory after he promised he wouldn't, it's obviously suspicious behaviour.

And let's look at the end game here, clearly in hindsight we now know it was the Oil Pressure Sensor all along. it was Warranty work, so refund the oil change, and refund the diagnostic. End of story.

 

[MANual_puller]

There is really a sensor to determine viscosity??

Cool. Does it make turbidity or whatever the proper description is?

I guess when wanting warranty an oil change for those using thicker oils is necessary before a trip (if that particular code is being thrown)

smh. No. There is no sensor that determines viscosity. There's an algorithm that the PCM uses that takes several sensory inputs that determines if the viscosity is safe or not. Any values fall out of the ranges and the P1521 code is set.

 

[czardog]

Congratulations OP, you've reached the 3rd grade level. You can plug in a doohicky and read what it says Work on understanding what those codes actually mean and how a diagnostic plan works. A "dealer diagnostic scan" is only part of the diagnostics. In this case changing the oil was a test. Live and learn.

Thanks Tips i'll get right on it. If changing the oil was a "test" why does it have to be on my ******* Dime. And no, they never offered to reimburse the oil change no matter what the outcome would be. I was going to have to eat that no matter what.

So let me ask you another question because you seem quite knowledgeable in this area:

If you scanned your truck and it said A, you brought it to your dealer and they say its says B. What say you in a circumstance like that?

 

[czardog]

They changed your oil. Why would you expect a refund?

Because A) i had a perfectly fine synthetic oil in there with only 5000 km on it.

B) I had to replace the oil at an exorbitantly High Rate.

C)If we follow ManualPuller's explanation that changing the oil is just a step in the diagnostics plan, and it turns out that the root cause was the Oil pressure sensor (which we concluded it was) I shouldn't have had to pay for the diagnostics steps taken to determine it was a warranty job all along.

Either way. The oil change isn't my biggest gripe, as i said, at the very least i got an oil change out of it. My problems are:

1) dealer claimed a code came up that certainly wasn't there when i scanned it myself. After questioning the dealer, they offered to store the codes but instead cleared them. Like i said, if i saw the stored code of P1521, i would have no reason to suspect foul play and this thread wouldn't even exist.

2)Why am i paying a diagnostic fee on a warrantied car?

 

[MANual_puller]

Let me clarify. Myself and my mechanic read the CODE not CODES. No "s".

One single code popped up, under active and stored: P0520 - Engine Oil Pressure Sensor Circuit

When dealer is telling me a code popped up that i didn't see myself, and then clears it from memory after he promised he wouldn't, it's obviously suspicious behaviour.

And let's look at the end game here, clearly in hindsight we now know it was the Oil Pressure Sensor all along. it was Warranty work, so refund the oil change, and refund the diagnostic. End of story.

I misread. That part of the statement I apologize for. It's entirely possible that it set the second code on the way there. You understand that the P1521 code is set partly by the oil pressure sensor. Codes do not(typically) go away unless cleared but they will affect other related systems and set codes related to them as time goes on. It very likely popped on the way to Dewildt and because the CEL was already on you'd never know. Those two codes are dependent on each other. Very rarely do they pop by themselves.

There's no point in even changing the oil if the codes aren't cleared. You have to know if the problem is fixed. That's the normal diagnostic plan with the codes that they read. They have their procedures and cannot do special requests, especially for warranty work. If you want warranty, you have to do as they say. That's the end of the story. Peel didn't just magically do what you asked because you asked. They did it because it was the next step in the diagnostic plan. It was coincidence the plan and your request coincided.

There's nothing suspicious about the dealer following a normal diagnostic plan. When you don't follow directions and let them close the file they have no obligation to reimburse you for services rendered and paid for. Peel will get reimbursed by FCA for the warranty work. Dewildt won't. That's your bill now.

That being said, the service manager is typically too far removed from the service bays. Doubtful he even goes out into the shop every day and it's this way most places. Some places allow you to talk to the tech that worked on the vehicle/will work on the vehicle. That is the best bet for correct information. Service managers are mostly scheduling and personnel managers, they don't do any wrenching. The service manager was just reading the ticket entered by the tech, he didn't have all the information. You didn't have all the information either since the other code very likely set on the way there. It was a simple miscommunication. And since communication is a 2 way street you cannot place the blame solely on them.

 

[TRCM]

If they had to clear the code per the warranty procedure, then they should have never agreed not to.

They should have explained why they had to instead.

 

[MANual_puller]

Thanks Tips i'll get right on it. If changing the oil was a "test" why does it have to be on my ******* Dime. And no, they never offered to reimburse the oil change no matter what the outcome would be. I was going to have to eat that no matter what.

So let me ask you another question because you seem quite knowledgeable in this area:

If you scanned your truck and it said A, you brought it to your dealer and they say its says B. What say you in a circumstance like that?

Because A) i had a perfectly fine synthetic oil in there with only 5000 km on it.

B) I had to replace the oil at an exorbitantly High Rate.

C)If we follow ManualPuller's explanation that changing the oil is just a step in the diagnostics plan, and it turns out that the root cause was the Oil pressure sensor (which we concluded it was) I shouldn't have had to pay for the diagnostics steps taken to determine it was a warranty job all along.

Either way. The oil change isn't my biggest gripe, as i said, at the very least i got an oil change out of it. My problems are:

1) dealer claimed a code came up that certainly wasn't there when i scanned it myself. After questioning the dealer, they offered to store the codes but instead cleared them. Like i said, if i saw the stored code of P1521, i would have no reason to suspect foul play and this thread wouldn't even exist.

2)Why am i paying a diagnostic fee on a warrantied car?

You have to take their word for it because you didn't stick around and ask the tech. It's protocol to clear codes after work is done. Unfortunate but that's what it is.

That sucks but it was part of the normal diagnostic plan. They should have offered to reimburse you for it if the codes came back. If the codes did not, then it would have been settled at that.

Yes you should initially because there could have been a mistake made and nothing at all wrong with the vehicle. A reimbursement should have been offered if the vehicle passed that test, which it did.

Those two codes are so closely related I bet it was there and your mechanic's tool couldn't see it. You could ask him if he's ever seen a P1521 code before. I'm sure he's changed lots of oil pressure sensors.

Basically because you couldn't follow instructions. If you don't follow the warranty process all the way through, the work isn't warranted.

 

[smurfs_of_war]

When the text changes colors I'm out.

Sent from my SM-G925W8 using Tapatalk

 

[czardog]

You have to take their word for it because you didn't stick around and ask the tech. It's protocol to clear codes after work is done. Unfortunate but that's what it is.


Basically because you couldn't follow instructions. If you don't follow the warranty process all the way through, the work isn't warranted.

1. they don't let you talk to the techs, and i don't agree that I should have to have a discussion with every Tom, **** and Harry that works at the dealership so we can figure out how to replace an oil Pressure sensor. Maybe next time my check engine light comes on i'll book a boardroom to figure out whats going on, i'll bring my lawyer and accountant too. If the Diagnostic Plan is set in stages then it should be explained to the customer. Instead all i got was "Nope, you definitely have bad oil in the car and now you owe us for a diagnostic fee" there was no plan, there was no second stage. It was a SHAKE. DOWN.

2. I agree that that might be protocol, so then the dealer shouldn't have specifically told me that they stored the codes for my perusal. You can't have it both ways. It's either protocol and you stick to it, or it's not and you offer to store it. Can't switch back and forth to fit a narrative.

3. Please explain which part of the "instructions" I didn't follow. Because your talking almost like you were there. What were the instructions that were given to me? and which part did I not follow? And be patient with me because my 3rd grade brain takes a while to process, also this is my first car and i've never stepped into a dealership before in my entire life.

 

[MANual_puller]

1. they don't let you talk to the techs, and i don't agree that I should have to have a discussion with every Tom, **** and Harry that works at the dealership so we can figure out how to replace an oil Pressure sensor. Maybe next time my check engine light comes on i'll book a boardroom to figure out whats going on, i'll bring my lawyer and accountant too. If the Diagnostic Plan is set in stages then it should be explained to the customer. Instead all i got was "Nope, you definitely have bad oil in the car and now you owe us for a diagnostic fee" there was no plan. It was a SHAKE. DOWN.

2. I agree that that might be protocol, so then the dealer shouldn't have specifically told me that they stored the codes for my perusal. You can't have it both ways. It's either protocol and you stick to it, or it's not and you offer to store it. Can't switch back and forth to fit a narrative.

3. Please explain which part of the "instructions" I didn't follow. Because your talking almost like you were there. What were the instructions that were given to me? and which part did I not follow? And be patient with me because my 3rd grade brain takes a while to process, also this is my first car and i've never stepped into a dealership before in my entire life.

If it was an obvious shakedown why did you let it happen?

You didn't take it back, as instructed, when the light came back on.

 

[Paluby]

This guy actually started yelling at me!

This is the part that stands out the most to me. It's absolutely unacceptable for an employee to start yelling at a customer.

 

[MANual_puller]

This is the part that stands out the most to me. It's absolutely unacceptable for an employee to start yelling at a customer.

Agreed. Perception is everything though.......that and having one side of the story