Mileage Concern

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Nine Four

Nine Four

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Quick update.

I followed up with the Ram dealer that initiated a trouble ticket with Mopar, concerning the ability to read hours through the Mopar software. The dealership informed me that Mopar said that they can not look at the hours on their software, and further more, it is not possible to for the mileage to have been altered on my truck.

It appears that the purchasing dealership would have only been willing to concede the mileage had been altered, if the Ram dealer could have shown different mileage figures through their software, which they could not. Consequently, I have begun to get the "run-around" from the purchasing dealer.
 

ronheater70

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Hate that for you.. Sure would seem they would have an way to read that info. Seems like it would be important for certain warranty claims. Have you tried contacting the manufacturer of the scanner your using to see their thoughts?
 

bshown

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Hi everyone. Long time lurker but never posted or had an account. I saw this thread and it interested me due to being a tech at a dealership. (Not Ram) Our factory scantools have a generic OBD feature we can use for off brand vehicles. I was curious what kind of info I could find using it. I connected to my personal 2015 Ram 3500 diesel dually and I found that I also can see hours logged in idle and total engine run time with this generic OBD function. It is displayed in seconds because thats my default units for time. Quick math converts to hours. Another curious thing, I also connected to some of my coworkers trucks for comparison (theres about 5 of us with newer Cummins diesels), the idle hours on the PCM datalist did not match the idle hours displayed on the cluster on any of our trucks. All of them were off by quite a bit and varying amounts. The total engine runtime on our trucks ALL were very close to the total hours displayed on the cluster though with about a 5-6 hour margin. In my opinion, seeing the original posters pictures and data from his scantool, there is no way that truck got those kind of PCM hrs and show almost 140k miles towing, without something fishy going on. The fact that Mopar and the Ram dealers on here supposedly can't access any info that any generic OBD scanner has access to is laughable and pathetic.Resized_20180522_061957_2202.jpeg
 
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mtofell

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Aside from all this electronic research have you gone down the road of looking at the physical characteristics of the truck? I'd have to think there are wear items and such that a good mechanic would be able to spot a +/- 100K mile difference.

I'm no mechanic so maybe this is naive but couldn't a person remove the rear diff cover and spot the difference between gears with 30K or 130K? How about something as simple as wear on the gas and brake pedal, wear on the seat, etc.? I'm just kind of thinking outside the box.
 

tjfdesmo

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I would guess the dealer doesn't want to get caught in the middle of a potential legal dispute. I can't believe that info is not shown on the factory tool.
 
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Nine Four

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Aside from all this electronic research have you gone down the road of looking at the physical characteristics of the truck? I'd have to think there are wear items and such that a good mechanic would be able to spot a +/- 100K mile difference.

I'm no mechanic so maybe this is naive but couldn't a person remove the rear diff cover and spot the difference between gears with 30K or 130K? How about something as simple as wear on the gas and brake pedal, wear on the seat, etc.? I'm just kind of thinking outside the box.

Yes, you are correct. There are physical characteristics that I have found, which I believe I called "red flags" in earlier posts, that I believe corroborate with the hour discrepancy, to prove the truck has odometer has been altered.

As for wear on the interior, my research has shown that had someone used this truck as a "Hotshot" truck, and planned to alter the mileage, they would have likely removed most of the interior, in an effort to save weight and preserve it to install before selling the truck.
 

22hemi13

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Yes, you are correct. There are physical characteristics that I have found, which I believe I called "red flags" in earlier posts, that I believe corroborate with the hour discrepancy, to prove the truck has odometer has been altered.

As for wear on the interior, my research has shown that had someone used this truck as a "Hotshot" truck, and planned to alter the mileage, they would have likely removed most of the interior, in an effort to save weight and preserve it to install before selling the truck.
Yeah. They'll strip one down. How about going to a reputable diesel tech and paying them to go though engine. Could be worth the cost to build a case
 
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Nine Four

Nine Four

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OP any updates. Is the dealer your purchased from making right or putting up a fight?

Sorry I have not posted an update in a while. I have found this situation to be "all consuming" and I'm trying to keep a balance between it and daily life. It's been difficult.

Thursday of last week, at the request of the purchasing dealership, I drove to the dealership to work with them on a resolution. The dealership said that they could not do anything over the phone or internet, and that I had to work with them in person only. Point of note that I may not have made clear yet, I purchased this truck from a dealership 2 hours from where I reside. Yes, I can clearly see all the potential pitfalls of purchasing a vehicle from out of town, but at the time, it was a very attractive truck, and I did not consider the what if's.

Sparing the details from the dealership meeting last week, the dealership's attitude and stance toward the situation was completely opposite of what it had been in previous contacts. Helpfulness and concern had transformed into coldness, arrogance, and condescension. They said that the documentation I provided was not proof that the mileage was altered. They again fell back on the Ram dealership across the street and said that if they could not show a mileage difference, then the mileage was accurate. They basically drew a line in the sand and said that they believe the mileage on the truck to be accurate and they would not "take the truck back". I made it clear that I believe the documentation I have, proves mileage tampering, and I requested that they either take the truck back and provide a truck of equal value or completely undo the transaction. They said in no uncertain terms, that they would not do that. They offered to trade this truck in on a different truck, but as you can imagine, I was loosing thousands of dollars in the deal, and more importantly to me, I believe they would have sold this truck to someone else, and I am not okay with that. I still do not believe the purchasing dealership had any involvement in altering the mileage, but now that I have provided what I believe to be proof and they are rejecting it, I feel they are on the edge of being complicit in the situation. I know that is a strong statement, but I believe they are discounting a lot of documentation that adds up to show a mileage discrepancy.

After the meeting with the dealership, I contacted an attorney who was recommended by a member of this forum. The attorney seemed genuinely interested in my concern, and I think more important to me, inquired about my background and seemed understand how my knowledge and experience gives credit to the documentation I have provided as proof of altered mileage. The attorney is currently reviewing the documentation and information I provided.

In the mean time, here is a picture to ponder. Upon removing the bezel to inspect the cluster to see if it was the original, I found this.Cluster Scuffs.JPG
 

Shawn226

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Sorry I have not posted an update in a while. I have found this situation to be "all consuming" and I'm trying to keep a balance between it and daily life. It's been difficult.

Thursday of last week, at the request of the purchasing dealership, I drove to the dealership to work with them on a resolution. The dealership said that they could not do anything over the phone or internet, and that I had to work with them in person only. Point of note that I may not have made clear yet, I purchased this truck from a dealership 2 hours from where I reside. Yes, I can clearly see all the potential pitfalls of purchasing a vehicle from out of town, but at the time, it was a very attractive truck, and I did not consider the what if's.

Sparing the details from the dealership meeting last week, the dealership's attitude and stance toward the situation was completely opposite of what it had been in previous contacts. Helpfulness and concern had transformed into coldness, arrogance, and condescension. They said that the documentation I provided was not proof that the mileage was altered. They again fell back on the Ram dealership across the street and said that if they could not show a mileage difference, then the mileage was accurate. They basically drew a line in the sand and said that they believe the mileage on the truck to be accurate and they would not "take the truck back". I made it clear that I believe the documentation I have, proves mileage tampering, and I requested that they either take the truck back and provide a truck of equal value or completely undo the transaction. They said in no uncertain terms, that they would not do that. They offered to trade this truck in on a different truck, but as you can imagine, I was loosing thousands of dollars in the deal, and more importantly to me, I believe they would have sold this truck to someone else, and I am not okay with that. I still do not believe the purchasing dealership had any involvement in altering the mileage, but now that I have provided what I believe to be proof and they are rejecting it, I feel they are on the edge of being complicit in the situation. I know that is a strong statement, but I believe they are discounting a lot of documentation that adds up to show a mileage discrepancy.

After the meeting with the dealership, I contacted an attorney who was recommended by a member of this forum. The attorney seemed genuinely interested in my concern, and I think more important to me, inquired about my background and seemed understand how my knowledge and experience gives credit to the documentation I have provided as proof of altered mileage. The attorney is currently reviewing the documentation and information I provided.

In the mean time, here is a picture to ponder. Upon removing the bezel to inspect the cluster to see if it was the original, I found this.View attachment 130346

Hopefully the attorney gives you some good traction. There’s absolutely no way the mileage wasn’t altered in some fashion. I was dicking around in my dash and my trailer tow setting says 0 miles because I’ve never hooked a trailer up to it yet. Doesn’t seem coincidental or anything. Don’t understand how the ram dealership across the street can’t figure that one out
 

mtnrider

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Reading this I was thinking there is no way that the mileage is stored in the cluster so this can't be correct. It has to be stored in the ECU and passed to the cluster. I mean that is too easy for someone to mis-represent the mileage by just swapping the cluster.

Out of curiosity I searched the other Cummins forum where I am active to see if any one had done a cluster swap or upgrade. Sure enough, there were a couple that did and the mileage of cluster remained what it was from the previous truck it came out of and did not match what the truck actually had. Unbelievable! I cannot believe they designed the system like that. Too easy for someone to swap that out and lie about the mileage.

Edit:
Well, maybe I spoke too soon, there is some conflicting info as well. A few said the cluster had to be programmed to the new VIN and mileage changed to match the new truck or it would throw an error? So not I'm not sure.

.
 
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Shawn226

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Interesting... so maybe tell them you wanna prove it with a cluster swap, with you present. And that should be all the proof they need
 

stimpy433

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just curious, what trim level is the truck? tradesman? i believe it's less likely to get a big horn with that particular guage cluster in it. that may allude to the fact that the cluster was swapped out.

Lots of Big Horn's come with that gauge cluster, mine did and I think about 99% of the one's on the lot at the same time did too.
 

mtnrider

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Lots of Big Horn's come with that gauge cluster, mine did and I think about 99% of the one's on the lot at the same time did too.

My Big Horn came with the 7" cluster and all the ones on the dealers lot had them as well. It's part of the luxury group that they all had.

The group includes this stuff...
Auto-Dimming Exterior Mirror
Color 7-Inch Multi-View Driver Info Display
Exterior Mirrors with Turn Signals (on the 2018 trucks)
Exterior Mirrors with Courtesy Lamps
Glove Box Lamp
 

bobbo7915

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i swapped the cluster on my previous truck, the mileage is stored in the cluster AND the ecu, redundancy for this type of issues. i had a company update the new cluster to match the mileage of my truck so there were no issues. i had similar scratches as the OPs latest picture shows.

i wonder if you were to swap the ecu truck to truck what the mileage would read with a scan tool? say someone took the matching ecu and cluster from a totaled truck and swapped it into the OPs truck...
 

mtnrider

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i swapped the cluster on my previous truck, the mileage is stored in the cluster AND the ecu, redundancy for this type of issues. i had a company update the new cluster to match the mileage of my truck so there were no issues. i had similar scratches as the OPs latest picture shows.

So did it throw any kind of error or warning before you had it updated? How would one know that they did not match unless they had they scan tool and went in to look at it?

.
 

bobbo7915

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i did not install it before it was updated to match the mileage. they are updated on a bench out of the truck.
 

Jimmy07

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So did it throw any kind of error or warning before you had it updated? How would one know that they did not match unless they had they scan tool and went in to look at it?

.
No error or code will be thrown. You can buy a used cluster and run it as is.
 

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