P0303 - Need suggestions and directions!

[Alan Summers]

Hi, newbie here. 2010 ram 1500 5.7L Hemi pulled a P0303 code indicating cylinder 3 misfire. I found one related thread (http://www.ramforum.com/threads/p0308.92794/) but it showed no conclusion.

I have completed the following, in order:

1. Added some additives (seafoam, z-max) in an attempt to clean out any build up in the injectors or combustion chamber. Checked all connectors at coils, injectors and PCM.

2. Unplugged the PCM to clear the code, which it does, and the code returns after 15-30 minutes of driving.

3. Checked the plugs on #3 and they are very worn. Put the plugs back in (for now), swapped the #3 coil pack with #1 coil pack and cleared the code. Code returns, still on #3 so eliminates (I hope) the coil pack.

3. Pulled one of each pair of plugs and checked compression. Average is 210 (did not have the throttle body open) with a low of 200 and high of 215. Cylinder #3 is right at 205 where it should be...

4. At this point I have all plugs removed and new plugs (NGK LZFR5C11) ready to go back in but I want to swap or replace the fuel injector on #3.

Any suggestions? I looked for a DIY link on fuel injector replacement and cannot find one here, again a newbie. First question is can I put the plugs and coil packs back in and then do the fuel rail/fuel injector removal? To anyone with links to directions or videos, I thank you in advance!

 

[Buzz]

Another good one to watch. So many folks have a lot of the same questions I have. Excellent forum.

 

[rotwiler]

Could be a stuck roller causing it, seen another post which was his reason code was happening.

 

[Buzz]

Wouldn't that effect compression values?

 

[Alan Summers]

After additional testing I suspect a lifter issue and who knows if it has the accompanying worn cam. The symptoms are now not really matching the code, P0303. The truck lurches at idle and just doesn't rev up right. A single cylinder misfire would not be as noticeable as what I am seeing, and now heading to work out of town for a couple of weeks. Pulling the head is more than I have time for so now trying decide between a taking it to a dealership or an independent shop. My concern with the dealerships are costs and the fact that they probably may not have worked on 5th gen hemi's in a while, I just do not know. If anyone has experience with a hemi specialist at an independent shop in ATL please let me know the name...thanks in advance!

 

[Alan Summers]

One last question for anyone who has experienced P030X and has had the lifters and/or cam replaced.

1 - Are the OEM replacement parts the same parts that came out of the engine? Or are they of a newer design or a different quality material?

2 - Has any one put substantial mileage on a lifter/cam replaced engine and if so, what if any issues?

3 - If the lobe flat spots that material, however fine, is going somewhere? Wouldn't you want to do a complete tear down?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Alan Summers]

Okay, bad lifter on cylinder 3. Going to do them all and replace the water pump and thermostat while it is all apart and fix the manifold issues. Guess I will save all of my receipts in the hope that Dodge steps up!

One interesting note for others following this post: number three shows good compression with the gauge as it pumped up to 210 psi, within 5 psi of any other cylinder. However, the mechanic has a nifty oscilloscope-like machine that was able to graph out the compression over time and you can see number 3 pump up and loose pressure multiple times. Not quite sure how you could identify that with a gauge.

Anyway, hope to have repairs finished this week and be back in business. Apparently the new lifters are from the hellcat motor so hopefully Dodge has corrected any design or material issues.

Thanks for the previous feedback!

 

[chrism1367]

If you don't mind how much did that set you back? Btw thanks for the updates

 

[Alan Summers]

Sorry for the late response, been working out of town forever.

So the saga continues...I did replace all the lifters/cam and it got rid of the cylinder misfire on #3. The lifter and corresponding cam lobe were toast (pics attached). Within 24 hours out pops a P306, also code for the p3400 indicating a problem with the MDS on bank 1. Oh no! Sure enough p306 comes on hard and remains on. I flushed and changed the oil thinking maybe some debris had gotten into the #6 valve seat or oil passages, no luck. I changed the MDS solenoid, no luck. I switched the injector, coil pack, push rod from a good cylinder to #6 and the problem stayed with #6.

The truck doesn't idle quite right bouncing between 500 and 650 and the gas mileage is gone down hill, maybe 12 mpg mainly around town.

Due to tagging requirements in GA I did some testing with my ODB II reader/Tourque App and I was able to keep the check engine light clear long enough to pass emissions. Here is what I had to do:

1 – Reset the faults (P0300, P0306)

2 – Get the computer readiness active by diving the vehicle (varied driving, at least 50 miles at 55 mph). To do the driving without pulling codes I did the following:

A. Used the push button on the dash to put the truck in Tow/Haul mode which deactivates the cylinder deactivation system (MDS). Without doing this I would still get a P3400 (cylinder deactivation system bank 1).

B. When at a traffic light or stopped for any reason slip the transmission into neutral and manually keep the idle up (otherwise pulling a code P0306 - #6 misfire)

So now I am back to square 1. When I get back home gonna have to get to the bottom of it. The lifter replacement by itself is at least $4k if you pay someone to do it. I think I am going to have no choice but to turn to the dealership. My son has been driving the truck and other than the constant codes and the poor gas mileage he says it still runs the same, but it has to be missing, how else to explain the gas mileage which used to be 15-16 mpg.

If anyone has any ideas I am all ears (to quote Ross Perot!).

 

[CanadianNick]

Holy crap, 4K to replace lifters ? That doesn’t sound right. Am I missing something ?

Also interested to know, what did your engine sound like before replacing lifters and cam?

 

[Alan Summers]

That's the ball park price from the dealer for 16 lifters and the cam. Keep in mind they price out $600 to replace the plugs!

So I had the typical lifter noise that some of these early 4th gens had as the lifter slowly was destroyed. It was noticeable but not bad, as the lifter really went and the cam started going the truck would really surge and almost die at low rpm.

 

[Alan Summers]

When I say lifter noise it was a tapping/ticking. This, despite very regular oil changes with the recommended 5w-20. Threads on this site claim that the correct viscosity is critical for the MDS system to function properly. It looks to me like the MDS system is a poor design that really starves the lifters of oil. I am no expert but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express the other night....

 

[Alan Summers]

Two posts ago, I mentioned $600 for plug replacement. That was actually for a full service tune-up, plugs, filters, oil, tire rotation and whatever else they do at 30, 60 and 90.

 

[RysRam]

Two posts ago, I mentioned $600 for plug replacement. That was actually for a full service tune-up, plugs, filters, oil, tire rotation and whatever else they do at 30, 60 and 90.

Alan, did/does your truck idle alot? Does your model year truck have the idle hours available in the dash display?

 

[Alan Summers]

I do not have the idle hours available, nor do I think it has idled any more or less than any other vehicle. That is a tough one to quantitate! Are you aware f issues in the past due to excessive idling?