Raced a 16 Silverado 2500hd-6.0...LOST

[drittal]

From 2015 TFL truck article where they asked a Ram rep some questions...

"WHAT ABOUT THE 8-SPEED AUTOMATIC IN THE RAM HD TRUCKS?

The short answer is: no. The existing 8-speed TorqueFlight automatic transmission is not rated for heavy duty requirements of towing up to 30,000 lbs or hauling over 7,000 lbs. It is also not rated to hold this much weight on an incline in Park."


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[Danno]

For someone who constantly tries to come across as a subject matter expert, it's laughable how much of what you say is just complete BS. Feel free to provide some actual ratings and specifications to back up your claims.

Here's the BS that you must have missed earlier. Its from the source ZF.

Cars | 8-Speed Automatic Transmission - ZF Friedrichshafen AG

Trucks | LCV | 8-Speed Automatic Transmission - ZF Friedrichshafen AG

In case you missed a 6.0 outperforming a 6.4

2014 Ram 2500 HD: 6.4L HEMI vs. 6.0L Chevy [Ike Gauntlet HD] - The Fast Lane Truck

Anything else.

 

[theviking]

Here's the BS that you must have missed earlier. Its from the source ZF.

Cars | 8-Speed Automatic Transmission - ZF Friedrichshafen AG

Trucks | LCV | 8-Speed Automatic Transmission - ZF Friedrichshafen AG

In case you missed a 6.0 outperforming a 6.4

2014 Ram 2500 HD: 6.4L HEMI vs. 6.0L Chevy [Ike Gauntlet HD] - The Fast Lane Truck

Anything else.

Yea, I'm still waiting for you to show me where it's documented that the ZF8HP90 clutches can't handle the 6.4L torque output. The 8HP90 is rated for 1000 Nm (when paired to a diesel, 900 Nm when paired to a gas engine), (900 Nm is about 664 ft-lbs).

So...the Google search results you provided didn't do much to prove your point. Please show me where it's stated that the ZF 8 speed can't handle the 6.4's output in any configuration. Thanks in advance

 

[smurfs_of_war]

Yea, I'm still waiting for you to show me where it's documented that the ZF8HP90 clutches can't handle the 6.4L torque output. The 8HP90 is rated for 1000 Nm (when paired to a diesel, 900 Nm when paired to a gas engine), (900 Nm is about 664 ft-lbs).

So...the Google search results you provided didn't do much to prove your point. Please show me where it's stated that the ZF 8 speed can't handle the 6.4's output in any configuration. Thanks in advance

You're going to be waiting a while.

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[smurfs_of_war]

From 2015 TFL truck article where they asked a Ram rep some questions...

"WHAT ABOUT THE 8-SPEED AUTOMATIC IN THE RAM HD TRUCKS?

The short answer is: no. The existing 8-speed TorqueFlight automatic transmission is not rated for heavy duty requirements of towing up to 30,000 lbs or hauling over 7,000 lbs. It is also not rated to hold this much weight on an incline in Park."


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I had read that too and could not for the life of me remember where I read it. Thanks!

 

[Danno]

Yea, I'm still waiting for you to show me where it's documented that the ZF8HP90 clutches can't handle the 6.4L torque output. The 8HP90 is rated for 1000 Nm (when paired to a diesel, 900 Nm when paired to a gas engine), (900 Nm is about 664 ft-lbs).

So...the Google search results you provided didn't do much to prove your point. Please show me where it's stated that the ZF 8 speed can't handle the 6.4's output in any configuration. Thanks in advance

I have provided the facts, just because it can handle the power doesn't mean it can survive the duty and abuse which is shown by not being used. Show where it's used in a commercial application and with stands the duty. Your speaking hypothetical that it should and can be used but with nothing showing its suited application in anything other than passenger vehicles. Torque rating doesn't mean it's suited for a commercial duty cycle, cars have 1000+NM torque rated power plants. You need the right tool for the job, like the gm 6.0 in place of the 6.4.

 

[SouthTexan]

I have provided the facts, just because it can handle the power doesn't mean it can survive the duty and abuse which is shown by not being used. Show where it's used in a commercial application and with stands the duty. Your speaking hypothetical that it should and can be used but with nothing showing its suited application in anything other than passenger vehicles. Torque rating doesn't mean it's suited for a commercial duty cycle, cars have 1000+NM torque rated power plants. You need the right tool for the job, like the gm 6.0 in place of the 6.4.

Nope, you didn't provide one damn piece of evidence saying that the clutches cannot handle the power output of the 6.4L or it's duty cycle in the 2500/3500. The only one you are kidding here is yourself. All you provided is a link of where the 8HP70 is going in light commercial vehicles which is a European vehicle class, not an American one.

I also showed you where the 8HP70 used in light commercial European vehicles with a GVW of over 7.2 tonnes. It is also used in the Ram 1500 fleet trucks which would be considered a light commercial vehicle by US DOT standards along with Ram 2500 and 3500 pickups.

Funny you talk about a 6.0L being the right tool for the job over the 6.4L when you stated that you own a 6.4L. Apparently you don't listen to what you are selling so whg do you think anyone else would?

 

[Danno]

Nope, you didn't provide one damn piece of evidence saying that the clutches cannot handle the power output of the 6.4L or it's duty cycle in the 2500/3500. The only one you are kidding here is yourself. All you provided is a link of where the 8HP70 is going in light commercial vehicles which is a European vehicle class, not an American one.

I also showed you where the 8HP70 used in light commercial European vehicles with a GVW of over 7.2 tonnes. It is also used in the Ram 1500 fleet trucks which would be considered a light commercial vehicle by US DOT standards along with Ram 2500 and 3500 pickups.

Funny you talk about a 6.0L being the right tool for the job over the 6.4L when you stated that you own a 6.4L. Apparently you don't listen to what you are selling so whg do you think anyone else would?

If I recall I brought up the 8HP70L (note the L) which is the only 8hp in commercial use and for commercial as per the manufacture ZF, BUT the torque rating is low. Its a ecodiesel 3.0 and 3.6 penastar low. Come up with some fact, some legitimate info that the 8hp series can be used and will with stand the abuse in HD vehicles.

Don't worry about what I have, worry about the truth. Truth is 6.0 hands down outperforms the 6.4 every time. Its just a fact, I accept it but some can't. If anyone is upset that the 6.4 lost they can print the advertised spec and carry around as assurance to make them feel better, stop crying...

 

[loveracing1988]

when you can provide facts let me know. Until then don't be a democrat and lose with pride.

Coming from the one who is well known to be nothing but a troll on here. These boards are for helping people, something I have yet to see you ever do.

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[SouthTexan]

If I recall I brought up the 8HP70L (note the L) which is the only 8hp in commercial use and for commercial as per the manufacture ZF, BUT the torque rating is low. Its a ecodiesel 3.0 and 3.6 penastar low. Come up with some fact, some legitimate info that the 8hp series can be used and will with stand the abuse in HD vehicles.

WTF are you smokin? You haven't provided on shred of factual information stating that the 8HP90 cannot handle the 6.4L in the RAM. NOT ONE! The only thing you keep holding on to is their product listing of the European truck class of light commercial vehicles which out light duty 2500 and 3500 would fit into. Again, just because it says HD on the side of the Ram 2500 and 3500's does not mean they are "heavy duty" class vehicles. They are light duty class vehicles, but on the heavy duty side of the light duty class just like light commercial vehicles in Europe.

Look at this link, and tell me where the Ram 2500 and 3500 fall under. Light or heavy duty class?

Truck classification

Come up with some fact, some legitimate info that the 8hp series can be used and will with stand the abuse in HD vehicles.

We just said we wish it was in there and you stated that it can't because the clutches cannot handle it. So we are calling you out to back up this statement. Where is your proof? All you have provided thus far is a product listing for European class vehicles(which coincidently would be in the same class as the 2500 and 3500 here).

Don't worry about what I have, worry about the truth. Truth is 6.0 hands down outperforms the 6.4 every time. Its just a fact, I accept it but some can't. If anyone is upset that the 6.4 lost they can print the advertised spec and carry around as assurance to make them feel better, stop crying...

Sucks to be you then. You trash the 6.4L almost every time you post here yet you have to drive one every day. If the 6.0L is so good, then wy did you get a 6.4L? You must not believe the crap you are trying to spew enough to own one.


So you stated it couldn't handle the 6.4L in the Ram, quit and show us your proof?

 

[Danno]

It's easy to back the statement of the 8hp is not suited for HD use. Show where it is used in anything other than passenger cars, a Ram 1500 and a compact truck. The proof is provided its not capable by the fact it's not used and the fact that a special 8HP70L was designed for light commercial use. If it's capable then prove it.

Why get all wrapped up in the use of Heavy Duty, do you think the Ford 5.0 coyote is really a four legged dog under the hood??? Must if the use of the Heavy Duty is so upsetting.

For the last time here is the specs and application as per ZF (the company that designed and engineered the 8HP), one MAY think they would be the foremost authority. Note two different categories car (8HP) and truck (8HP70L) as per ZF.

Stars by ZF - ZF Friedrichshafen AG

Stars by ZF - ZF Friedrichshafen AG

My use of the 6.4 is in a power wagon, I don't tow as its capacity is reduced and use it as a daily driver and trails. Its a good passenger engine but not a work horse. Most like to brag about the 6.4 being the most powerful and the numbers bring a lot of buyer, they fall for the advertising and want mall parking lot bragging rights.

It's just like the 6.7, 2500 and 3500 number are advertised to compete with the others in the market. Your not getting those number, torque management takes over. 4500 and 5500 have the same 6.7 but reduced # rating. Bragging rights is all it is.

 

[drittal]

The short coming of the 6.4 isn't the motor but the gearing in the 66rfe. That said, I provided a quote from 2015 where a Ram Rep said there won't be an 8sp in the HD line because they are not rated for the weights or for holding them in park in an incline. While some appear to be used in light duty commercial vehicles with 16k GVWR, the Ram 6.4 is rated for over 20k GCWR


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[smurfs_of_war]

Now, now girls. We're ALL pretty.

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[drittal]

Now, now girls. We're ALL pretty.

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Not me. I look like Harry Henderson.


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[Danno]

The short coming of the 6.4 isn't the motor but the gearing in the 66rfe. That said, I provided a quote from 2015 where a Ram Rep said there won't be an 8sp in the HD line because they are not rated for the weights or for holding them in park in an incline. While some appear to be used in light duty commercial vehicles with 16k GVWR, the Ram 6.4 is rated for over 20k GCWR


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Yes, here's the quote again.

WHAT ABOUT THE 8-SPEED AUTOMATIC IN THE RAM HD TRUCKS?

The short answer is: no. The existing 8-speed TorqueFlight automatic transmission is not rated for heavy duty requirements of towing up to 30,000 lbs or hauling over 7,000 lbs. It is also not rated to hold this much weight on an incline in Park.

Ask TFLTruck: Ram Trucks Questions Answered - The Fast Lane Truck

He used Heavy Duty, someone educate him....

 

[smurfs_of_war]

Not me. I look like Harry Henderson.


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I'm sure there's a market for that somewhere.

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[mtofell]

The short coming of the 6.4 isn't the motor but the gearing in the 66rfe.

This X 1000

As most of us know the ratios in the 66rfe are the same as the 68rfe in the diesel... and all indications are they were designed for a diesel motor and thrown behind the Hemi, likely due to $$ savings by Ram.

It's hard for me to understand why they can't just develop the perfect tranny to go with a given motor but apparently that just costs too much. The best analogy I can think of is years ago when I worked restaurants. It was great when you could come up with a sauce/dip that you set next to some chips for an appetizer, stick in a piece of fish for some stuffing or serve on top of an entree salad.

As I sit here 5 beers deep on Saturday night typing I think, "WTF, why not just put a different tranny in the Hemi?" Or, "Why not just beef up the 8 speed and put it behind the Hemi?" The reality is these things just take waaaaay more planning and $$ than any of us can appreciate.

Gas HD trucks are a pretty small segment of a big company and the folks making the decisions are undoubtedly richer and drinking better beer than me

 

[drittal]

Hell, the 66 is a 68 stuffed in a 545 case. Lol


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[6.4 dude]

I just bought a 4500 6.4 with a 6 speed Aisin and 4.44 rear end. The gear spacing is much better. It will move along thru the first 4 gears.

 

[theviking]

Yes, here's the quote again.

WHAT ABOUT THE 8-SPEED AUTOMATIC IN THE RAM HD TRUCKS?

The short answer is: no. The existing 8-speed TorqueFlight automatic transmission is not rated for heavy duty requirements of towing up to 30,000 lbs or hauling over 7,000 lbs. It is also not rated to hold this much weight on an incline in Park.

Ask TFLTruck: Ram Trucks Questions Answered - The Fast Lane Truck

He used Heavy Duty, someone educate him....

Danno, why don't you remind us again how you are such an expert in this area. Oh yea, you never did because you can't...

30k rated capacity is only available with the Cummins/Aisin combo. The 2500/3500 6.4 HD is currently rated at a max towing capacity of around 16k. How do you know the statement you quoted wasn't referring to the Cummins HD models since that is the ONLY motor available rated anywhere near the 30k? How exactly do you know the ZF 8 speed can't handle 16k? Still waiting for some justification on your statement that the clutches can't handle the 6.4's output. As ST said, you haven't provided a shred of evidence to back up any of your claims. Just your usual BS, and you're not even good at that.